Where is the Christmas is evil threads?

[appy]

23 minutes ago, Bawb said:

Well, why don't we do this as a compromise to meet in the middle? I will observe and support with gladness in my heart any of the "traditions" of Christ-Mass you can find in the scriptures. But if you can't find a scripture that supports your "traditions" you will stop doing them with gladness in your heart. Deal?

 

Henry Iaian touched on something that is far, far more important than sabbath keeping and Old Testament observances.  Thank you Henry for the sweet reminder of what most Consider Christmas to be about.  Even secular programs and movies in spite of the theme being about Christmas trees and santa claus, touch on the the very important necessity of dishing out hope, giving, thanksgiving, kindness,  joy, etc to others.  Even atheists consider Christmas to be a holiday about Christ. 

Henry Iain you reminded me of the following

Matthew 12:7
If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent.

@Bawb

There is such a thing as religious pride.  If keeping the sabbath is a moral obligation and a  necessary for salvation and could make us right in God's sight,  why does God say the following?

Isaiah 1 : 13-14
Stop bringing meaningless offerings!  Your incense is detestable to me.  New Moons, sabbaths and convocations—    I cannot bear your worthless assemblies.  Your New Moon feasts and your appointed festivals  I hate with all my being. They have become a burden to me;     I am weary of bearing them.

Amos 5 :21 – 23
“I hate, I despise your religious festivals; your assemblies are a stench to me.  22  Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings,  I will not accept them.  Though you bring choice fellowship offerings,  I will have no regard for them.  23  Away with the noise of your songs!  I will not listen to the music of your harps.

A Psalm of King David

Psalm 51 : 16
You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.

 

[Bawb]

43 minutes ago, appy said:

Isaiah 1 : 13-14Stop bringing meaningless offerings!  Your incense is detestable to me.  New Moons, sabbaths and convocations—    I cannot bear your worthless assemblies.  Your New Moon feasts and your appointed festivals  I hate with all my being. They have become a burden to me;     I am weary of bearing them.

Amos 5 :21 – 23 “I hate, I despise your religious festivals; your assemblies are a stench to me.  22  Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings,  I will not accept them.  Though you bring choice fellowship offerings,  I will have no regard for them.  23  Away with the noise of your songs!  I will not listen to the music of your harps.

 

A Psalm of King David Psalm 51 : 16
You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.

I believe you are stating these scriptures out of context, because when placed into context, they don't mean what you are implying. If you read 10 or so verses before in Isaiah, it clearly describes judgement on the Hebrew people for the following:

Isaiah 1 : 4 through 13-Alas, O sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a brood of evildoers, children of depravity! They have forsaken the LORD; they have despised the Holy One of Israel and turned their backs on Him. 5Why do you want more beatings? Why do you keep rebelling? Your head has a massive wound, and your whole heart is afflicted. 6From the sole of your foot to the top of your head, there is no soundness—only wounds and welts and festering sores neither cleansed nor bandaged nor soothed with oil. 7Your land is desolate; your cities are burned with fire. Foreigners devour your fields before you— a desolation demolished by strangers. 8And the Daughter of Zion is abandoned like a shelter in a vineyard, like a shack in a cucumber field, like a city besieged.10Hear the word of the LORD, you rulers of Sodom; listen to the instruction of our God, you people of Gomorrah! 11“What good to Me is your multitude of sacrifices?” says the LORD. “I am full from the burnt offerings of rams and the fat of well-fed cattle; I take no delight in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.…12When you come to appear before Me, who has required this of you—this trampling of My courts? 13Bring your worthless offerings no more; your incense is detestable to Me— your New Moons, Sabbaths, and convocations. I cannot endure iniquity in a solemn assembly. 14I hate YOUR New Moons and YOUR appointed feasts. They have become a burden to Me; I am weary of bearing them.

Plainly put, he wanted them to obey and not to continue sinning and then sacrificing...

You will notice it stated "YOUR".  Are you seriously stating the YeHoVah HATES His own festivals and feasts? This is speaking of Idolatry...

Amos 5 :21 through 23 - “I hate, I despise YOUR religious festivals; your assemblies are a stench to me.  22  Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings,  I will not accept them.  Though you bring choice fellowship offerings,  I will have no regard for them.  23  Away with the noise of your songs!  I will not listen to the music of your harps. 24 But let justice roll on like a river, and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream. 25Did you bring Me sacrifices and offerings forty years in the wilderness, O house of Israel? 26You have taken along Sakkuth your king and Kaiwan your star god, the idols you made for yourselves.

I don't remember anything about a "star god" being deemed as acceptable worship to YeHoVah. This is clearly speaking of false/pagan worship.

A Psalm of King David Psalm 51 : 16
You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.
Also, put this in context also. It was speaking of David's repentance not what you're implying it does.

The Sabbath is another discussion. God does not change...

Edited December 1, 2021 by Bawb

[The_Patriot21]

2 hours ago, Bawb said:

 

Lol funny. My kids know santa isnt real...we never told them he was. Doesn't mean we dont enjoy watching tim allens the santa clause every year.

[teddyv]

1 hour ago, The_Patriot21 said:

Lol funny. My kids know santa isnt real...we never told them he was. Doesn't mean we dont enjoy watching tim allens the santa clause every year.

Yeah, our kids just figured it out - send them to school and they find out really fast from those kids with older siblings. Not that we ever really instilled some sort belief in Santa Claus.

[Bawb]

1 hour ago, The_Patriot21 said:

Lol funny. My kids know santa isnt real...we never told them he was. Doesn't mean we dont enjoy watching tim allens the santa clause every year.

It wasn't meant to be funny. It's kind of sad actually. The same lies stated about Santa could also be said about the Christ-Mass tree, the 25th being Yeshua's birthday, There Were Three Wisemen , The "Wisemen" Arrived The Night Jesus Was Born, Mary and Joseph Talked To All The Innkeepers, Jesus Was Born In A Stable... I could go on and on and on...

[Starise]

People attempt to combine things that don't mix and then wonder why they don't fit?

 

[Henry_iain]

You can take all the outward traditions,  including the name, out of the equation.  You can take away everything about snow, reindeer, sleighs, and big men in red and white. None of this is the important things about this season. Not to me 

 

Families coming together, singing hymns, worshiping God, thanking Him for the past season, the sharing of gifts, the focus on joy, hope, peace, love, etc, the reading and acting out of particular portions of Scripture that highlight these values. These things are traditions and values that matter to me. We should be doing these things all year round. 

I am not really here to argue.  I could but I won't. Because my whole focus here is on mercy. On letting people choose. You make your choice I make mine. We disagree on this. Don't for a moment think that I do not hear what you are saying. I do. So I will walk away from this,  and choose to adjust my focus on positive things. Life is hard enough. This is one of those thing I just choose not to worry about.  

[Bawb]

Henry Iaian touched on something that is far, far more important than sabbath keeping and Old Testament observances. Where were any of these abolished? Please show me what scripture did this.

Even atheists consider Christmas to be a holiday about Christ. What does that really say about Christ-Mass? Learn not the way of the Heathen.

Again, you use this scripture out of context...

Matthew 12:7
If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent. Who is innocent? Should a man lie and say that pagan practices are good, am I to agree with him? Leviticus 5:1 - “If someone sins by failing to testify when he hears a public charge about something he has witnessed, whether he has seen it or learned of it, he shall bear the iniquity.

Also, it is interesting that you bring up Isaiah 1 : 4 through 14. This is the very scripture that speaks of how YeHoVah judges His Chosen People for idolatry and disobedience to His Instructions. How do you think those who are "grafted In" will be judged?

[MrBear]

5 hours ago, Henry_iain said:

You can take all the outward traditions,  including the name, out of the equation.  You can take away everything about snow, reindeer, sleighs, and big men in red and white. None of this is the important things about this season. Not to me 

 

Families coming together, singing hymns, worshiping God, thanking Him for the past season, the sharing of gifts, the focus on joy, hope, peace, love, etc, the reading and acting out of particular portions of Scripture that highlight these values. These things are traditions and values that matter to me. We should be doing these things all year round. 

I am not really here to argue.  I could but I won't. Because my whole focus here is on mercy. On letting people choose. You make your choice I make mine. We disagree on this. Don't for a moment think that I do not hear what you are saying. I do. So I will walk away from this,  and choose to adjust my focus on positive things. Life is hard enough. This is one of those thing I just choose not to worry about.  

Thankfully Brother the Lord can read our hearts using this occasion although Pagan in origin, to celebrate with friends and family won’t send you to eternal damnation, Would God be mad at us for celebrating Christmas? 
I don’t believe he would ,. We are not praying to Santa Clause or worshiping a golden calf in the form of a fir tree ? 

I do agree with Bawb and his veiw on Christmas I don’t myself celebrate it, But as this short clip points out by Messianic Jews ( which btw is portrayed pretty accurately in some peoples relationships with the Lord)

Its our heart that matters, we still need to try to uphold his Law, but Jesus died so we would not be under the Condemnation of it

Edited by Omegaman 3.0 - Removed video
Sorry MrBear, but videos are only permitted in the video section. You can submit them for approval there. but please read the guidelines there before doing so, otherwise you might just be wasting your time and ours. 

So Christmas can be used as an opportunity to celebrate and worship the Lord with our heart

which we should do everyday

with friends and family 

Those are my veiws ? it all starts with our hearts ? 

SHALOM❤️

[Starise]

Romans 14:5

One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.

Nuff said. The NT superceded the OT long ago. Nowhere in the bible are we told to celebrate Christ's birthday like that of a man. Nowhere are we condemned for celebrating a holiday season that in times past was used for many purposes. Many of them evil and many also simply celebrations and days we  take off from the harvest and go indoors in the winter to find other things to do.

Celebration absent of any idolatry or other sin is perfectly ok with God. Celebration of these times with God in mind is even better. There is a time to work and a time to enjoy our work.

What other men, especially unsaved men choose to do during this time is totally on them. None of us are required to own any of it.

If anything, every year is new and what we do in that year is up to us. None of us is bound to repeat some long lost pagan tradition. It is basically what we make of it.

It is a big mistake to IMPOSE what you think someone else should think or believe and make a judgement on their heart based on it. I direct this comment to all and not the above posters.