This world is poisoning our food and drink

[missmuffet]

1 hour ago, Starise said:

You might have missed my attempt at humor here

There are small quantities of carcinogens in smoked meat so it probably isn't good for us to eat it all the time. The potential for it to be harmful is very small if you only eat it occasionally.

Meats are both smoked and salted for preservation and you probably know. You can leave a salted preserved ham out all the time unrefrigerated and it will keep.

 

I heard that BBQing is bad for you. Shouldn't eat a lot of bbq'd food. 

[The_Patriot21]

6 hours ago, Bawb said:

You failed to address Matthew 5:17... How do you rectify that?

In Acts 10:15 - Again, this speaks about MEN and NOT FOOD! Peter even admitted this...

Mark 7:19 - All FOODS are clean, but all animals are not FOOD! There were "unclean animals in the First writings and there are unclean animals in Revelation. Do you think Abba-Yah just keeps changing His mind about clean and unclean animals?

Romans 10:4 - The word Paul stated in the original Greek was the word ‘telos’ meaning mean ‘goal’ or ‘aim,’. Do you honestly think Yeshua is telling us to be "lawless" since this is the "end" of the law??? If you must use the word end, consider the saying "does the means justify the ends"...

Ephesians 2:15 = Having annulled in His flesh the law of commandments in ordinances, so that He might create in Himself the two into one new man, making peace. The ORDINANCES against Yeshua when He was nailed to the cross stated in 3 different languages 'The King of the Jews'. These were the ordinances nailed to the cross against us.

"the law was fulfilled" So in your context your marriage vows end because you fulfill them?

Let me put this up again  to clarify it. Matthew 5:17 - So you believe in this sentence Yeshua is saying "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to end them? This does not even pass the smell test...

You stated "Jesus said the dietary restrictions were lifted not once, but twice that Im aware of. Seems pretty irrefutable to me." What you stated there, using context provides the answer:

One of the foundational principles for understanding a scriptural passage is to examine the context. What is the topic of discussion here?

We should first notice that the subject is food in general, not which meats are clean or unclean. The Greek word broma, used in Mark 7:19, simply means food. An entirely different Greek word, kreas, is used in the New Testament where meat—animal flesh—is specifically intended (see Romans 14:21; 1 Corinthians 13:8). So this passage concerns the general subject of food rather than meat. But a closer look shows that more is involved.

The first two verses help us understand the context: "Then the Pharisees and some of the scribes came together to Him, having come from Jerusalem. Now when they saw some of His disciples eat bread with defiled, that is, with unwashed hands, they found fault" (Mark 7:1-2). They asked Jesus, "Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?" (Mark 7:5).

Now we see the subject further clarified. It concerns eating "with unwashed hands." Why was this of concern to the scribes and Pharisees?

The covenant God made with Israel at Mount Sinai was based on many laws and other instructions that ensured ritual purity. Jewish observance, however, often went beyond these in embracing the "oral law" or "tradition of the elders"—passed on by word of mouth and consisting of many additional man-made requirements and prohibitions tacked onto God's laws. Mark 7:3-4 provide a brief explanation of the specific practice the Pharisees and scribes were referring to in this account: "For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they wash their hands in a special way, holding the tradition of the elders ..."

Notice that food laws are not in question here. The topic is ritual purity based on the religious traditions of the oral law. The disciples were being criticized for not following the proper procedure of ceremonial hand-washing prescribed by these revered religious traditions.

Peter's testimony is significant

Can we find other biblical evidence that this view is correct, that Jesus never changed the biblical food laws? We find a telling event from the life of Peter well after Jesus' death and resurrection.

Peter is a central figure in the early Church. Jesus charged Peter to strengthen the brethren (Luke 22:32). Peter delivered a powerful sermon that led to the conversion of thousands (Acts 2:14-41). His boldly claiming the name of Christ resulted in the miraculous healing of a lame man. He powerfully preached on repentance to those who gathered to witness the miracle (Acts 3:1-26). Later the mere passing of Peter's shadow over the sick resulted in dramatic healings (Acts 5:15).

Surely Peter would have understood something as fundamental as whether Jesus had repealed the laws of clean and unclean meat. Yet, years after Christ's death and resurrection, when he experienced a vision of unclean animals accompanied by a voice telling him to "kill and eat," notice Peter's spontaneous response: "Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean" (Acts 10:14, emphasis added throughout).

Ironically, many believe the purpose of this vision was to do away with the dietary restrictions regarding clean and unclean meats. Overlooked is the significance of Peter's initial response. He obviously did not consider these laws as having been rescinded by Christ!

This strange vision came to Peter three times, yet he still "wondered within himself what this vision which he had seen meant" (Acts 10:16-17) and "thought about the vision" (Acts 10:19). Peter did not jump to conclusions as too many do today. He already knew what the vision did not mean. Later God revealed the true meaning: "God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean" (Acts 10:28).

Peter came to realize that the significance of the vision was that God was opening the way of salvation to gentiles (non-Israelites), so Peter shortly thereafter baptized the first uncircumcised gentiles God called into the Church (Acts 10:34-35; Acts 10:45-48). Peter was never to eat unclean animals, but he did learn this vital lesson in the plan of God.

"because legalism is a problem among churches. All churches and denominations struggle with it. Its not the end of the world but it is a problem that needs addressed, and a problem i will address when i see it. Especially when the legalism is unscriptural." The problem with churches today is that they have no idea what the Bible says even though some pastors have it memorized. They cherry pick verses without knowing context. They just regurgitate the denominational doctrine that was taught to them in the seminary. Also, they are not preaching repentance, but "the law was done away with". That is a doctrine  from hell... 

Im going to address your first 2 points, and im not even going to bother with the rest, as the first 2 completely discredit your stance.

Lets look at matthew 5:17. 

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or. the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil

I agree, Jesus came to fulfill the law, not to destroy it. I stated as much in my previous post. I already rectified it. And by already rectified it i mean i did so with scripture...and really, scripture rectifies itself. And the law defines what sin is, which again the new Testament is explicit about. I never said the law was done with. Except in the points where Jesus specifically stated "this is no longer sin" then disobedience of the law is indeed sin. So were in agreement there.

and your second point...mark 7:19. What part of all do you not get. It does not say "all but unclean foods" or " all but these foods" it says ALL foods. Its clear, its black and white. And Jesus then reprimanded Peter later on in acts for calling food unclean.

What your doing with that scripture is attempting to take your own understanding and trying to force it into scripture, and it doesnt work. Thats NOT what its saying. Its saying he declared it ALL clean. Whether you like it or not, Thats what scripture says, and I stand upon scripture.

now im out of this debate. Why? Because i figured out a long time ago that scripture can defend itself, and wasting time trying to prove it to those who try and subvert it to their personal agenda is a wasted effort. Its also why as you have noticed until now i havent even bothered to engage with you in debate at all.

i have spoken the truth, the truth that is plain to read in scripture. What you do with it is entirely up to you. God bless and Merry Christmas.

[Mama Etna]

On 12/2/2021 at 11:09 PM, Marathoner said:

Nah. 

I had to seriously cut back because I had heartburn issues.   Occasionally I will drink a decaffeinated coffee now.

[Marathoner]

9 minutes ago, Mama Etna said:

I had to seriously cut back because I had heartburn issues.   Occasionally I will drink a decaffeinated coffee now.

I understand. I injected a little humor into the topic.  

I drink decaffeinated after a certain point during the day. My coffee consumption waxes and wanes; it waxes when I work extra hours and find myself transporting clients, and wanes when I brew a cup and nurse it for a few hours, going cold on my desk. I haven't experienced any negative side effects but started drinking decaf on the advice of a doctor.  

[Marathoner]

I started drinking coffee in the Army, a scenario that my brothers and sisters who are vets will surely recognize. Many of us started drinking coffee in the military.  

I was 19 years old on my first field exercise in the Yakima Mountains. I was in tactical communications, and I worked long shifts in the field sitting in front of an array of equipment when I wasn't in the foxhole on guard duty. My rations included one packet of field-expedient rotgut coffee, sufficient to fill a canteen cup. I threw caution to the wind and brewed it...

Woohoo, that stuff kept me awake! 

I've been quaffing coffee ever since. 

[appy]

3 hours ago, Marathoner said:

Woohoo, that stuff kept me awake! 

hahahahaha

[Bawb]

12 hours ago, The_Patriot21 said:

Im going to address your first 2 points, and im not even going to bother with the rest, as the first 2 completely discredit your stance.

and your second point...mark 7:19. What part of all do you not get. It does not say "all but unclean foods" or " all but these foods" it says ALL foods. Its clear, its black and white. And Jesus then reprimanded Peter later on in acts for calling food unclean.

What your doing with that scripture is attempting to take your own understanding and trying to force it into scripture, and it doesnt work. Thats NOT what its saying. Its saying he declared it ALL clean. Whether you like it or not, Thats what scripture says, and I stand upon scripture.

now im out of this debate. Why? Because i figured out a long time ago that scripture can defend itself, and wasting time trying to prove it to those who try and subvert it to their personal agenda is a wasted effort. Its also why as you have noticed until now i havent even bothered to engage with you in debate at all.

i have spoken the truth, the truth that is plain to read in scripture. What you do with it is entirely up to you. God bless and Merry Christmas.

No you have twisted scripture, read it out of context and have proved nothing. And please, don't wish me a Merry Christmas. I am not a pagan nor am I a Catholic. These are abominations to me...

[Bawb]

12 hours ago, Marathoner said:

I started drinking coffee in the Army, a scenario that my brothers and sisters who are vets will surely recognize. Many of us started drinking coffee in the military.  

I was 19 years old on my first field exercise in the Yakima Mountains. I was in tactical communications, and I worked long shifts in the field sitting in front of an array of equipment when I wasn't in the foxhole on guard duty. My rations included one packet of field-expedient rotgut coffee, sufficient to fill a canteen cup. I threw caution to the wind and brewed it...

Woohoo, that stuff kept me awake! 

I've been quaffing coffee ever since. 

Ha Ha Ha Yakima??? I think I'm still coughing up dust from that place! I was stationed in Ft. Lewis from 1986 to 1989. Yeah, I hate coffee, but as you mentioned, for the very reasons of staying awake I started drinking it. I would dump the coffee packets in with the creamer, sugar and cocoa packets all in my canteen cup. And then heat it up on my buddie's portable propane stove...

I was a 31C with 9th Sig then...

 

[Mike Mclees]

On 12/2/2021 at 7:36 PM, The_Patriot21 said:

And yet we still live far longer, healthier lives with a far better quality of life then people did even 200 years ago. Even those people who make zero attempts at taking care of themselves often live into their 60s and beyond-something rarely seen even in the 1700s.

Fact is...everyone knows alcohol and caffeine is bad for you...and theres other healthier choices for you out there readily available. Any addiction is by ones own choice.

On that note i dont even see why you hate coffee so much...its a natural plant and really the only thing in it that is unhealthy is the naturally occuring caffeine content...and its also not new. Its been around for awhile...and historically its even saved lives. It was discovered during the cholera outbreaks of old those who drank a lot of coffee was far less likely to get it, as to those that didn't because they boiled water to make the coffee which killed off the contaminates. 

Same is true today...boiling water has a way of cleansing it making coffee probably one of the healthier drinks out there. And while caffeine itself is addicting, it doesnt cause near the issues that other drugs such as nicotine or even alcohol does, and getting off if it is far easier, withdrawal symptoms usually are nothing more then a mild headache and short term drowsiness.

In fact of all the caffeinated beverages out there, coffee is probably one of the healthiest choices available short of tea. I can think of a lot of caffeinated beverages that are far worse for you lol

Just stating science here...

This is just a question. Do you now or have you at some part of life been a smoker?I know that smoking is a very bad habit and it is by personal choice to start, It is also one of the hardest of habits to quit. you say Coffie is in its most pure form it is a very healthy drink.  We are also creatures of habit good and bad. How many times do you take a coffie break in a day? If you are a smoker and wanting to quit. is that coffie break gook for you concidering people die of lung cancer every year. How many just drink coffie and not reach for a cigerete. Is coffie then still healthy or should you quit coffie to. Don't forget that coffie drinking is a habit to. 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Mike Mclees

[The_Patriot21]

2 hours ago, Bawb said:

No you have twisted scripture, read it out of context and have proved nothing. And please, don't wish me a Merry Christmas. I am not a pagan nor am I a Catholic. These are abominations to me...

I wasnt going to reply again but i think this warrants a reply.

So let me get this straight, i take the verse in context for what it says is twisting scripture, but when you say its saying something it doesnt isnt? That doesnt make much sense, neither does linking wishing you a merry Christmas to catholicism. I get the pagen argument, i dont agree with it but i get it...but christmas was really never a Catholic holiday.

See i presented scripture. I never accused or attacked you in any way, I presented scripture, in context, thats it. I make no apologies, as a christian it is my duty to stand on scripture and what it says, and call out when i see it being used incorrectly. Certainly, like everyone else my interpretation isnt perfect and there areas that Im wrong on, which is why biblical discussion and debate is important, but when it comes to this topic i am not, and i think deep down you know it to, otherwise you would have either attempted to continue the debate or moved on instead of replying like this.

Ive stated before...ill stay it again. Christmas is what you make of it. To me its a time to celebrate Christs birth and the great hope that it brings us. And as euch im going to spread it as much as I can, one of those is to wish people a merey christmas. Im not meaning it sarcastically or cruelly, nor is my intent to offend, my intent is simply to wish you a merry christmas. As a way to spread Christmas cheer.

But, on that note neither do I care if it offends you. If you choose to be offended because I was wishing you a merry Christmas, that is on you, not on me. Im not going to apologize to you for wishing you a merry christmas neither am I going to stop. So telling me to "stop" and acting all offended is not going to stop me from wishing you good will.