Israel, aren't they the first fruits, especially once the hardness comes off?

[DeighAnn]

I have never 'studied' the harvests before and since yesterday haven't been able to figure out WHY the harvests of ISRAEL would be used by the church,  if the church believes it is separate from Israel.  I don't like to use what is convenient and toss out what is not so trying to work that out.  Me, I am still stuck on that whole 'grafted in, adopted into, partakers with, one body fitted together...' understanding that I just can't seem to let go of no matter how much the church wants to be pre trib raptued and how necessary that all is for that to happen.  

The Church sees themselves I THINK (again, just started) as 'first harvest'  and so pre trib raptured.  BUT it seems to me that the FIRST HARVEST would be of Israel and not of the Church at all. 

Most certainly there is nothing I have ever read that in anyway hints that the 'the hardness' comes off because they see the Church go off to heaven just the fulness has come in.  (which doesn't equate to anything but that)

I was reading along here when the question came about.  

Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Salvation is come, not rapture.  

Romans 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Romans 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

Romans 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?


WHAT IS THE SUBJECT HERE?  THE CASTING AWAY AND THE RECEIVING OF ISRAEL. 

Romans 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

I went to look up FIRST FRUIT in the Greek, Interlinear, and NASB and nowhere is it capitalized so it isn't about our Lord Jesus Christ.  

536. aparché ►
Strong's Concordance
aparché: the beginning of a sacrifice, i.e. the first fruit
Original Word: ἀπαρχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: aparché
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ar-khay')
Definition: the beginning of a sacrifice, the first fruit
Usage: the first-fruits, the earliest crop of the year, hence also met., for example, of the earliest converts in a district; there is evidence in favor of rendering in some passages merely by: sacrifice, gift.

 

5445. phurama ►
Strong's Concordance
phurama: that which is mixed
Original Word: φύραμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: phurama
Phonetic Spelling: (foo'-ram-ah)
Definition: that which is mixed
Usage: a mass or lump, as of bread dough.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from phuraó (to mix)
Definition
that which is mixed
NASB Translation
lump (5).

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 5445: φύραμα

φύραμα, φυράματος, τό (φυράω to mix), any substance mixed with water and kneaded; a mass, lump: of dough (Numbers 15:20f; (plural, Exodus 8:3; Exodus 12:34); Aristotle, probl. 21, 18, p. 929{a}, 25; Plutarch, quaest. conv. 6, 7, 2, 15, p. 693 e.), 1 Corinthians 5:6; Galatians 5:9 (on the meaning of which passages see ζύμη); Romans 11:16; of clay (Plutarch, praec. ger. reip. 15, 4, p. 811 c.), Romans 9:21 (cf. Buttmann, § 140, 3 Rem.).

 

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

BUT THEY ONLY ABIDE IN UNBELIEF UNTIL THE FULNESS OF THE GENTILES COMES IN, THEN NOT ONE IS LOST AND BACK TO THE 'FIRSTFRUITS'  THEY BECOME.

Romans 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Romans 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

Romans 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Romans 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

Romans 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

Romans 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Ephesians 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

Ephesians 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

Ephesians 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Ephesians 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

Ephesians 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Ephesians 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Ephesians 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Ephesians 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Again, I haven't really given it much time so ASKING questions is all.   Thank you     d