OneLight Posted March 8, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 8, 2009 Regardless . . . there is now an establish nation of Israel interacting with other nations of the world and has been since 1948 . . . . What do you think of the time of 1967 when Israel retook Jerusalem? How does this fit into the time table and events? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massorite Posted March 8, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,973 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 36 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/26/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/13/1953 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Since Israel's restoration, what other nation on earth has forced/compelled Israel to give up part of the inheritance God gave to her? And what other nation is in a power position with Israel to compel her further to allow the establishment of another enemy nation (Palestine) on her soil? Well, that's just it, the restoration of Israel per God's Word is yet to occur, because Jewish scholars well know today's nation state of Israel doesn't include the rest of the tribes The Bible mentions in Ezekiel 48... "The people known as Jews are the descendants of the Tribes of Judah and Benjamin, with a certain number of the Tribe of Levi. So far as is known, there is not any further admixture of other tribes. The Ten Tribes have been absorbed among the nations of the world. The Jews look forward to the gathering of all the tribes at some future date." ---Dr. Hertz - Chief Rabbi of the British Empire. 1918 "While not a link is missing of the historical chain so far as the romance of the House of Judah is concerned, the Israelites who were subjected by the Assyrian power disappear from the page of history as suddenly and completely as though the land of their captivity had swallowed them up... the Ten Tribes are certainly in existence, all that has to be done is to discover which people represent them." ---The Jewish Chronicles, May 22, 1879. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celt Posted March 8, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 258 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/04/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted March 8, 2009 If my previous post was understood, then one should be asking just what does today's nation state of Israel represent, since it was established through the United Nations by charter vote, along with its borders. And further, we should ask just what kind of ultimate plan do groups like the U.N. and Zionists have for it, since they keep changing its borders to give up more territory to the Palestinians? It's easy to look at a map of old Israel before the ten tribes were removed, and see how much land they inhabited then, and compare it with today. Can today's state of Israel be what God intended for the restoration? Absolutely not. It does not fit His prophecy for the restoration of Israel, because, like in Ezekiel 37 He mentioned the restoration would be like putting the two sticks back together, and establishing both the house of Judah (Judah, Benjamin, and Levi) with the house of Israel (ten lost tribes) back in the land He promised their fathers, with one King over them. Ezekiel 48 even names each tribe's final inheritance in the Holy Land, along with each tribe's location there. This is impossible to apply to the nation state of Israel today... Ezek 37:16-28 16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: 17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. 18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these? 19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. 20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. 21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: 22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: 23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be My people, and I will be their God. 24 And David My servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in My judgments, and observe My statutes, and do them. 25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob My servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and My servant David shall be their prince for ever. 26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. 27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore. (KJV) God did promise in 1 Kings 11 that He would leave one tribe at Jerusalem for the sake of His servant David, and Jerusalem's sake. That's part of the tribe of Judah. There has always been a small remnant of Judah dwelling in Jerusalem. But He never promised His restoration of Israel would be just that small remnant that lives there still today. The majority of the house of Judah is still... scattered through the countries today, and have yet to return. The U.N. which established the nation state of Israel again is saving it for some event in our near future, for its own purpose. God has allowed that for His Will to be done in the last days, but it is not His true restoration for Israel He mentioned in His Word. Wonder what the purpose for today's Israel is, and why globalist groups like the U.N. are involved? Anyone care to elaborate on that point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celt Posted March 8, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 258 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/04/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted March 8, 2009 Yes but the nation of Israel to day has a secular government and not a theocracy which is the kind of Israel that God is looking for. One of the biggest purposes of the nation of Israel is to giver show themselves as an example to the rest of the world of how a nation blessed and Loved by God should act or live and that is something that they are not doing. When the thousand years reign of Christ begins all of the tribes of Israel will be accounted for and the proper section or plot of land will have been given to them and they will be a theocracy under the control of Christ who is the Priest to the Most High God. What we have to day is a precursor to what is to become. A nation in preparation so to speak but is still prophecy fulfilled. That's not even to mention how certain groups of orthodox Jews in Israel today are ready to build another Temple, and start up the Old Covenant ways again. I can see how those orthodox Jews feel, because of their leaders giving in to the global U.N. peace plan with a Palestine state that hates them co-existing right among them. Those orthodox Jews obviously can distinguish the difference between how God established Israel long ago per history. So even they must be upset with the Israeli leadership over them, knowing the restoration hasn't happened yet. Why is it that so few can 'see' what's really going on there, and the real reasons for it? I love the fact that God has allowed the re-establishment of the state of Israel, even though it was by the hand of the U.N. under their false peace plan. But I'll not allow myself to be deceived by it, because it doesn't fit God's real restoration of Israel. I think you and I, and other brethren that see this difference are willing to admit this because of staying in God's Word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted March 8, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted March 8, 2009 I'm just not figuring out how Nebuchaddnezzer's statue dream fit sin with this. Nebuchadnezzar's dream was only up to Rome which would disperse Israel and cause the spread of the gospel/church throughout the world. It doesn't include Egypt or Assyria, nor does it go beyond Rome to the 7th and 8th empires of the beast. OK, that's why I'm not connecting; we're seeing this a bit different. Dan. 2 32 The head of the statue was made of pure gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of bronze, 33 its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of baked clay. 34 While you were watching, a rock was cut out, but not by human hands. It struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and smashed them. . . . 37 You, O king, are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory; 38 in your hands he has placed mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds of the air. Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them all. You are that head of gold. 39 "After you, another kingdom will rise, inferior to yours. Next, a third kingdom, one of bronze, will rule over the whole earth. 40 Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron--for iron breaks and smashes everything--and as iron breaks things to pieces, so it will crush and break all the others. 41 Just as you saw that the feet and toes were partly of baked clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom; yet it will have some of the strength of iron in it, even as you saw iron mixed with clay. 42 As the toes were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. 43 And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay. 44 "In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. This is what I am seeing here: Gold head = Babylon Silver chest and arms = Medo-Persians (makes sense having 2 arms for 2 nations joined as one) Bronze belly and thighs - Greece Iron legs = Rome Iron and clay feet = ??? Rock = Jesus establishing His Kingdom on earth (yet to come) The additional clues Daniel provided in the interpretation about the feet: This kingdom is divided. It has some of the strength of the previous kingdom (iron). (Focusing on the toes) it will partly brittle. The people of the kingdom "will be a mixture and will not remain united." This is why it makes more sense to me that the feet reflects the "Holy Roman Empire" and such - it had Rome's iron, the kingdom was divided (the East and West split), the people that made up the Holy Roman Empire and the Byzantine Empire were indeed mixed nations and did not remain united, and their end (the toes) is more brittle than strong. (Notice also that the passage doesn't focus on the number of toes, just that they are the bottom, the end, of the statue of empires.) Also notice how the Daniel emphasized the strength of the iron with the feet but emphasized the brittleness of the clay with the toes? I believe we are in the days of the toes. Just as the feet extended from the legs (the iron link) - the Holy Roman empire following the Roman empire - so the toes are the end of the feet - where else do we see all these nations trying to be as one but truly divided but in the UN? For it's not just the US that holds sway over Israel - so does the UN. Giving up Gaza was what the UN wanted Israel to do. The US simply managed to tilt the scales with the right incentives. That makes the most sense to me at this point in time anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted March 8, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 8, 2009 Regardless . . . there is now an establish nation of Israel interacting with other nations of the world and has been since 1948 . . . . What do you think of the time of 1967 when Israel retook Jerusalem? How does this fit into the time table and events? This is the one thing that has stuck with me through my studies - Da 8:5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat [Alexander the Great] came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes. 6 And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power. 7 And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand. 8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven. 9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. 10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. 11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down. 12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. 13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? 14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. Da 8:21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia . . . Alexander the Great enter the region 334 - 333 b.c. 2300 years minus 333 years (b.c.) brings us to 1967 a.d. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted March 8, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 8, 2009 Since Israel's restoration, what other nation on earth has forced/compelled Israel to give up part of the inheritance God gave to her? And what other nation is in a power position with Israel to compel her further to allow the establishment of another enemy nation (Palestine) on her soil? Well, that's just it, the restoration of Israel per God's Word is yet to occur, because Jewish scholars well know today's nation state of Israel doesn't include the rest of the tribes The Bible mentions in Ezekiel 48... "The people known as Jews are the descendants of the Tribes of Judah and Benjamin, with a certain number of the Tribe of Levi. So far as is known, there is not any further admixture of other tribes. The Ten Tribes have been absorbed among the nations of the world. The Jews look forward to the gathering of all the tribes at some future date." ---Dr. Hertz - Chief Rabbi of the British Empire. 1918 "While not a link is missing of the historical chain so far as the romance of the House of Judah is concerned, the Israelites who were subjected by the Assyrian power disappear from the page of history as suddenly and completely as though the land of their captivity had swallowed them up... the Ten Tribes are certainly in existence, all that has to be done is to discover which people represent them." ---The Jewish Chronicles, May 22, 1879. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massorite Posted March 8, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,973 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 36 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/26/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/13/1953 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Yes but the nation of Israel to day has a secular government and not a theocracy which is the kind of Israel that God is looking for. One of the biggest purposes of the nation of Israel is to giver show themselves as an example to the rest of the world of how a nation blessed and Loved by God should act or live and that is something that they are not doing. When the thousand years reign of Christ begins all of the tribes of Israel will be accounted for and the proper section or plot of land will have been given to them and they will be a theocracy under the control of Christ who is the Priest to the Most High God. What we have to day is a precursor to what is to become. A nation in preparation so to speak but is still prophecy fulfilled. That's not even to mention how certain groups of orthodox Jews in Israel today are ready to build another Temple, and start up the Old Covenant ways again. I can see how those orthodox Jews feel, because of their leaders giving in to the global U.N. peace plan with a Palestine state that hates them co-existing right among them. Those orthodox Jews obviously can distinguish the difference between how God established Israel long ago per history. So even they must be upset with the Israeli leadership over them, knowing the restoration hasn't happened yet. Why is it that so few can 'see' what's really going on there, and the real reasons for it? I love the fact that God has allowed the re-establishment of the state of Israel, even though it was by the hand of the U.N. under their false peace plan. But I'll not allow myself to be deceived by it, because it doesn't fit God's real restoration of Israel. I think you and I, and other brethren that see this difference are willing to admit this because of staying in God's Word. Correct! Did you know that the Sanhedrin has been re-instituted? It is now based out of Tiberius Israel. That is why I tell people that a key indicator as to how close it is to the return of Christ and the appearance of the antichrist is a new Jewish temple on the temple mount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massorite Posted March 8, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,973 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 36 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/26/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/13/1953 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Since Israel's restoration, what other nation on earth has forced/compelled Israel to give up part of the inheritance God gave to her? And what other nation is in a power position with Israel to compel her further to allow the establishment of another enemy nation (Palestine) on her soil? Well, that's just it, the restoration of Israel per God's Word is yet to occur, because Jewish scholars well know today's nation state of Israel doesn't include the rest of the tribes The Bible mentions in Ezekiel 48... "The people known as Jews are the descendants of the Tribes of Judah and Benjamin, with a certain number of the Tribe of Levi. So far as is known, there is not any further admixture of other tribes. The Ten Tribes have been absorbed among the nations of the world. The Jews look forward to the gathering of all the tribes at some future date." ---Dr. Hertz - Chief Rabbi of the British Empire. 1918 "While not a link is missing of the historical chain so far as the romance of the House of Judah is concerned, the Israelites who were subjected by the Assyrian power disappear from the page of history as suddenly and completely as though the land of their captivity had swallowed them up... the Ten Tribes are certainly in existence, all that has to be done is to discover which people represent them." ---The Jewish Chronicles, May 22, 1879. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted March 8, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,041 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 426 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Author Share Posted March 8, 2009 I would be inclined to reject any Empire not affiliated with Israel's past, present and future as being the seventh . . . since I believe Israel is a key to understanding the identity of all the "heads" or "kings," especially the seventh and the eighth. Actually, Europe was heavily involved with the possession of the Promised Land (the time of the Crusades), as well as Muslims (though I don't know which nation of Muslims had the strongest hold on the Land). Britain just had it at the end. Agreed Sister Nebula . . . but believe the Beast that "was, was not and yet is" is correlated with Israel which also "was, was not and yet is." I believe the distinguishing of the heads must be discerned as existing during the establishment of Israel and not during her absence. That is why England is the 7th and not all of Europe or the Muslims. OK show us some scripture to back that idea up because Israel never was and is not today considered to be the beast by God. How can Israel be the apple of God's eye and considered to be His people by God and be the beast at the same time. Your assumptions are just that. Assumptions. When you can,t show a historical Jewish connection between the heads if we were to run down your road. Apparently you have no idea what I said. I never stated Israel was a beast or the beast. You are wrong in your assumption. You compared the beast of Daniel to Israel. You used I believe the word "correlation" which means "a mutual or complementary relationship between the two." and I see no relationship between the two at all in scripture. They are not in any way related in any shape or form biblically or otherwise. The word "correlate" also means "to gather and compare related things" and there are no related characteristics between the Beast of Daniel and Israel. So where is my assumption? You used the word "correlation" I didn't. Yes I did use the word "correlation," however, you used the word "similar," I didn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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