Differentiating Natural God Given Ability From Spiritual Gifts

[Marathoner]

On 1/26/2022 at 6:20 PM, Starise said:

People who had an inclination to certain strengths before they were saved will carry those same things over into their saved lives.

If God uses these abilities for His kingdom I don't think we can necessarily say these are spiritual gifts. A person who is a wonderful host will continue to be a wonderful host. Possibly those gifts will be redirected to something else more edifying.

If a spiritual gift is something we get AFTER we are saved clearly it's a new addition. 

When a gift is given from the Lord the intended purpose is to glorify Him and edify His people in some way. A gift is never to be directed inward. Gifts are always directed outward. When we use our gifts we are edified in the use of those gifts and often feel a sense of satisfaction and completion as a person.

Do you differentiate strictly spiritual gifts from innate abilities you have always possessed or honed? God gives us abilities yet we can take no credit for any of it.

Probably most important is what FRUITS have been produced through the use of the gifts you think the Lord has given you? What has this gift accomplished?

The bible informs us that we will one day be held accountable for how we used what was given to us. Are we productive? The first step is to recognize your gift or gifts if you haven't already.

 

I just noticed this topic, brother. My apologies for arriving late as it were.

There are talents, and these talents are given to us by the Lord who fashioned us by His hand. A talent can be defined this way: I taught myself how to read at the age of three and shortly after this, how to write. I would spend hours faithfully copying pages from my father's dictionary, creating facsimiles by hand (this had the effect of rapidly expanding my vocabulary); I would reproduce illustrations from the plethora of books in his library. By the time I was enrolled in Kindergarten, I was reading papers and notes scattered on my teacher's desk. In the ancient world, there's no question I would have been apprenticed to a master scribe on account of those talents I evidenced as a young child. 

Another example of a talent: public speaking. I was shy and reserved as a rule, avoiding attention whenever I possibly could (I became adept at giving others "the slip"). However, when I found myself thrust into a situation where I was required to address a room full of people, I opened my mouth and words flowed like water. It was the easiest thing I had ever done, and I discovered that I wasn't afraid in the least. I don't need to write a speech beforehand. All I require is a subject. 

A talent can be grown, increasing with use and application. Musical aptitude is one such talent I "bumped into" during childhood when I spent hours on end examining a guitar. I would pluck the strings and watch them vibrate; I noticed a ringing drone accompanying the movement of those strings which soon after, I learned were harmonics. I taught myself how to play a six-string guitar... laid hands on a trumpet... and then started messing around with home-grown percussion: pots... pans... containers of various kinds... and both kitchen utensils and pencils with which to strike all of those things. Rhythm came naturally without training or education. It was already there. 

An example of an acquired skill would be caring for the sick and the aged, which I cultivated over those years I spent looking after my adopted mother. Another acquired skill was competency in the kitchen, which I developed under her watchful eye. If I was going to prepare her meals, then she was going to be sure that I did it properly! Farming is another example of a skillset which I acquired over time. We wanted to grow our own produce, so both she and I worked at it for years, learning what works and what doesn't. Driving is another example of an acquired skillset. 

The gifts of the Spirit are an entirely different matter, my friend. These are the work of the Spirit alone. 

[Michael37]

43 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

The gifts of the Spirit are an entirely different matter, my friend. These are the work of the Spirit alone. 

The Impartation of Spiritual Gifts:

(Act 19:6)  And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.
 

(Rom 1:11)  For I long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual gift, so that you may be established—
(Rom 1:12)  that is, that I may be encouraged together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
 

(1Ti 4:14)  Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you by prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the eldership.
(2Ti 1:6)  Therefore I remind you to stir up the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands.

[FreeGrace]

On 1/27/2022 at 7:46 PM, Michael37 said:

Natural giftings don't always find expression in the body of Christ because they come with fleshly pride and carnal striving that isn't pleasing to God. However, when self is humbled and natural giftings are offered to the Lord in full submission they may well flourish under new management.

I agree with this, and believe that Stares nailed the issue of spiritual gifts.

On 1/27/2022 at 7:46 PM, Michael37 said:

Spiritual gifts can be for a season.

A person can receive a gift of faith for some sort of service they would not otherwise undertake, and when this has been accomplished the gift has served its purpose.

This was true in the OT, when the indwelling, or more accurately, the enduement of the Holy Spirit, was given to only a very few believers, and for specific acts of service.

However, we are in NT times, and the Holy Spirit is forever indwelling the believer, unless Jesus had it wrong when He promised the Holy Spirit would come and "be with us forever".  Will the resurrected body be indwelt with the Spirit?  I believe so, yet there are no specific verses that say so.

Since Rom 11:29 says "God's gifts are irrevocable", it would follow that what He specifically gtifts is permanent.  I know the context around that verse, which is about Israel, but Paul opened Romans with mentions 3 times of specific gifts.  Are those to be ignored?  And regarding Israel, where is there specific mention of "gifts" given to Israel?  I'm not aware of any.

So it's safe to say that the gifts God gives are permanent.  Whether they will be used or not is the issue.  Paul commands believers to be "filled with the Spirit" in Gal 5:18.  That is a command to be obeyed.  Yet, how many beliuevers even explain exactly HOW to obey that command?  Oh sure, one can say, "surrender, or yield to the Spirit", but that can't be quantified specifically.  

So, until one can articulate HOW to be filled, how can they claim that they are?

On 1/27/2022 at 7:46 PM, Michael37 said:

Good thread, @Starise

1Pe 4:10  As each one has received a gift, minister it to one another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

Every believer should know what their gifting is.  If they do not, they should ask God to reveal His plan for them so they can use that gift.  And that means they must know HOW to be filled with the Spirit.

Believers who know what their spiritual gift or gifts are, but isn't obeying the command to be filled with the Spirit, can't use their gift.  

Paul also commands believers to NOT "grieve the Spirit" (Eph 4:30) or "quench the Spirit" (1 Thess 5:19).  Again, anyone doing these these cannot use their gift.

[Starise]

5 hours ago, Marathoner said:

I just noticed this topic, brother. My apologies for arriving late as it were.

There are talents, and these talents are given to us by the Lord who fashioned us by His hand. A talent can be defined this way: I taught myself how to read at the age of three and shortly after this, how to write. I would spend hours faithfully copying pages from my father's dictionary, creating facsimiles by hand (this had the effect of rapidly expanding my vocabulary); I would reproduce illustrations from the plethora of books in his library. By the time I was enrolled in Kindergarten, I was reading papers and notes scattered on my teacher's desk. In the ancient world, there's no question I would have been apprenticed to a master scribe on account of those talents I evidenced as a young child. 

Another example of a talent: public speaking. I was shy and reserved as a rule, avoiding attention whenever I possibly could (I became adept at giving others "the slip"). However, when I found myself thrust into a situation where I was required to address a room full of people, I opened my mouth and words flowed like water. It was the easiest thing I had ever done, and I discovered that I wasn't afraid in the least. I don't need to write a speech beforehand. All I require is a subject. 

A talent can be grown, increasing with use and application. Musical aptitude is one such talent I "bumped into" during childhood when I spent hours on end examining a guitar. I would pluck the strings and watch them vibrate; I noticed a ringing drone accompanying the movement of those strings which soon after, I learned were harmonics. I taught myself how to play a six-string guitar... laid hands on a trumpet... and then started messing around with home-grown percussion: pots... pans... containers of various kinds... and both kitchen utensils and pencils with which to strike all of those things. Rhythm came naturally without training or education. It was already there. 

An example of an acquired skill would be caring for the sick and the aged, which I cultivated over those years I spent looking after my adopted mother. Another acquired skill was competency in the kitchen, which I developed under her watchful eye. If I was going to prepare her meals, then she was going to be sure that I did it properly! Farming is another example of a skillset which I acquired over time. We wanted to grow our own produce, so both she and I worked at it for years, learning what works and what doesn't. Driving is another example of an acquired skillset. 

The gifts of the Spirit are an entirely different matter, my friend. These are the work of the Spirit alone. 

Do you ever feel those gifts are wasting away? I somtimes feel that way about my gifts. 

The amount of effort some put into using their gifts seems to never be in proportion to the effectivness of such gifts. For instance, when was the last time you used your public speaking gift?

I have been taking violin lessons and so far as I know I might have to actually use it in heaven because noone in my local assembly has any interest in using even half of what I am capable of. That may sound like a prideful statement, but in reality it's just me looking at my capabilities and seeing no avenues to use them.

[Mama Etna]

I am a violinist.  I am mundane sounding when I play secular music.  But when I play for Christ something happens.  The music has been described as 'silky' or angelic.  So God can use a natural ability.

[Marathoner]

1 hour ago, Starise said:

Do you ever feel those gifts are wasting away? I somtimes feel that way about my gifts. 

I don't, my friend.

I appreciate what @Michael37 shared above in response to my post, for he reminds us about meanings we associate with terms such as "gifts." When I say or write, "gift of the Spirit," here's what I mean by that:

The Lord declares what will come to pass, as He has done many times over the years. The Lord declared what would unfold before I set foot in this city. 

The Lord opens a vision, and He explains the meaning while the vision unfolds so I will understand. 

The Lord sends a dream. Three months before my adopted mother passed away, the Lord sent a dream declaring that He would take her soon. I woke from this dream pleading with Him not to do this so quickly, for she had just been given a clean bill of health. We had so much work to do together! 

The Lord displays His power in me. This is witnessed by those whom the Lord intends to display His power. The first two gifts I described above have been given by the Spirit which culminate in the display of His power, though He withholds the knowledge of what He shall do as it pertains to me. I only know that I'm to go to this certain place on a particular day; this is all that the Lord sees fit to impart. I'm just as astonished as those who witness the power of God. 

The Spirit gives me a word for another. From my perspective this comes from "out of the blue" and when given, has a profound impact upon the recipient. How was I to know that the word given would have such an effect upon a man whose life was destroyed by alcohol? Ah, but the Lord knows. Months later, this man comes to me in tears. What I said in passing never left him. 

So, the above is what I mean by gifts of the Spirit. With regard to other gifts, the Lord does indeed use these gifts as it suits His purpose. I don't for a moment believe that any gift (talent) bestowed upon us by the Lord is wasted, brother. There is a time and a season for every matter under heaven. In keeping with the spiritual gift described in the passage of scripture shared by our brother in his last post, I was given the gift of encouragement. How and when?

After I reunited with my old friend, the man who introduced me to the scriptures and the Body of Christ, he received my testimony of what happened during those long years we were apart. After I was finished my brother said to me, "The Lord will bless the words you speak or write when those words are encouraging words. It's not your place to correct others. Encourage them just as the Lord encourages you!" 

This is why I tread carefully whenever arguments or disputes are imminent (or taking place as the case may be). Whenever I attempt to "correct" another it never ends well. That's a fine example of how I can miss the boat, fall off the dock, and plunge into the drink. 

Ah, but it's quite alright, brother. We aren't perfect after all. The Lord knows this well.  

[Michael37]

6 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

I agree with this, and believe that Stares nailed the issue of spiritual gifts.

This was true in the OT, when the indwelling, or more accurately, the enduement of the Holy Spirit, was given to only a very few believers, and for specific acts of service.

However, we are in NT times, and the Holy Spirit is forever indwelling the believer, unless Jesus had it wrong when He promised the Holy Spirit would come and "be with us forever".  Will the resurrected body be indwelt with the Spirit?  I believe so, yet there are no specific verses that say so.

Since Rom 11:29 says "God's gifts are irrevocable", it would follow that what He specifically gtifts is permanent.  I know the context around that verse, which is about Israel, but Paul opened Romans with mentions 3 times of specific gifts.  Are those to be ignored?  And regarding Israel, where is there specific mention of "gifts" given to Israel?  I'm not aware of any.

So it's safe to say that the gifts God gives are permanent.  Whether they will be used or not is the issue.  Paul commands believers to be "filled with the Spirit" in Gal 5:18.  That is a command to be obeyed.  Yet, how many beliuevers even explain exactly HOW to obey that command?  Oh sure, one can say, "surrender, or yield to the Spirit", but that can't be quantified specifically.  

So, until one can articulate HOW to be filled, how can they claim that they are?

Every believer should know what their gifting is.  If they do not, they should ask God to reveal His plan for them so they can use that gift.  And that means they must know HOW to be filled with the Spirit.

Believers who know what their spiritual gift or gifts are, but isn't obeying the command to be filled with the Spirit, can't use their gift.  

Paul also commands believers to NOT "grieve the Spirit" (Eph 4:30) or "quench the Spirit" (1 Thess 5:19).  Again, anyone doing these these cannot use their gift.

We have to guard against the misuse and abuse of gifts.

I have heard it said that the gifts of the Spirit cannot manifest without the fruit of the Spirit.

Also, I stand by my belief that a person can minister in a particular gift they are specially endowed with just for that occasion. Many testimonies speak to this,

The gift of faith is often given to someone to undertake something they would not otherwise do.

A word of knowledge is often given to someone who has no experience of the sudden moving of the Holy Spirit to intervene in a situation.

Some of the people that claim to have an infallible permanent ability to discern spirits, prophesy, deliver or interpret tongues messages, and perform miracles have been tragic cult leaders. 

[Starise]

5 hours ago, Mama Etna said:

I am a violinist.  I am mundane sounding when I play secular music.  But when I play for Christ something happens.  The music has been described as 'silky' or angelic.  So God can use a natural ability.

I used the violin as one example and I am so glad to hear you are playing your instrument. 

I have been in a standstill hole musically for awhile now. Basically ever since I had the friction leading worship at my last church. Now I have some health issues I'm dealing with, so I sometimes feel as if God is just done with me. That's why I think maybe I'll get oppotunities in heaven one day as I don't seem to be getting them here. If God sends me a message to just throw in the towel I would be sad but I guess I would just move on.

I still play piano on a rotation basis at church, but it ends up being very little over a few months. 

[FJK]

6 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Some of the people that claim to have an infallible permanent ability to discern spirits, prophesy, deliver or interpret tongues messages, and perform miracles have been tragic cult leaders. 

I've known people like that, they seem to work very hard to earn those gifts.

[Starise]

On spiritual gifts- I'm not sure what my spiritual gift is unless it's the gift of helps whatever that means. Could be anything from playing music to moving chairs and everything in between. 

I once thought I could teach, but it seems the Lord doesn't open those doors either.