Omegaman 3.0 Posted January 30, 2022 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted January 30, 2022 All Christians believe in predestination. That might be a bold statement, as I know people who claim to be Christians who say they do not believe in predestination. I would say what is certainly true, is that all people, Christians or not, believe in predestination, IF they believe the Bible. This video is long (about 54 minutes), but he does a good job of explaining the doctrine of predestination. If you watch it on YouTube, you can click to tool wheel and change the playback speed to make it shorter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks Posted January 30, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,160 Content Per Day: 2.03 Reputation: 2,514 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/20/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 30, 2022 There are a lot of things in the Bible that are per-ordained, but they are not necessarily about you or for you. Many times, these things are strictly about the ancient Jews. God offers His Gift of Salvation to all people who want it, and they are allowed to accept His Gift, or Decline it. That's God's will, that you choose wisely. There is one who can try to hide the Gift from you, named Satan. He has a legal ability to do so, but you can still arrive at the truth and choose the Gift if you want it. The Gift is not forced by God, nor is it hidden by God. God will honor your choice. 2 Corinthians 4:4 New Living Translation (NLT) Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted January 30, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,994 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,692 Content Per Day: 11.75 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 30, 2022 R.C. Sproul was thoroughly calvinist so I don't think I will support what he says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted January 30, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,054 Content Per Day: 6.47 Reputation: 9,018 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted January 30, 2022 R.C. was a wonderful brother, who had a real gift for teaching in a humble and yet sure manner. There is no child of God (no matter what doctrinal place one is) that could not benefit from paying him some attention. ONe cannot study the scriptures in totality, without realizing that predestination is a truth...what you believe about that truth is another matter, as there is room for some differing views--past that--election is as biblical as the Cross--and indeed wrapped up in it. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks Posted January 30, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,160 Content Per Day: 2.03 Reputation: 2,514 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/20/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 30, 2022 48 minutes ago, Alive said: ONe cannot study the scriptures in totality, without realizing that predestination is a truth...what you believe about that truth is another matter, as there is room for some differing views--past that--election is as biblical as the Cross--and indeed wrapped up in it. If a person is under the mistaken notion that everything is predetermined by fate, and that fate therefore is unalterable, they could certainly misinterpret scripture. This idea is called fatalism, and suggests there is no freewill, but the Bible mentions that we have freewill, all over the place. The elect exist, but were not forced. God freely offers salvation to anyone who places their faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus as sufficient payment for their sin. This is mentioned in Romans 10:9-10. Why have such a scripture if it's not a invitation to everyone? You, in that scripture, sure seems to mean you, as in anyone. I see no limitations to it meaning anyone. It tells you how to accept, and why it works when you accept. (ESV) Romans 10:9-10 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted January 30, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,994 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,692 Content Per Day: 11.75 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Alive said: R.C. was a wonderful brother, who had a real gift for teaching in a humble and yet sure manner. There is no child of God (no matter what doctrinal place one is) that could not benefit from paying him some attention. ONe cannot study the scriptures in totality, without realizing that predestination is a truth...what you believe about that truth is another matter, as there is room for some differing views--past that--election is as biblical as the Cross--and indeed wrapped up in it. God saves everyone who asks to be saved. He does not choose. Although He knows who is going to be genuinely saved and who is not. Edited January 30, 2022 by missmuffet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted January 30, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,994 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,692 Content Per Day: 11.75 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 30, 2022 37 minutes ago, Sparks said: If a person is under the mistaken notion that everything is predetermined by fate, and that fate therefore is unalterable, they could certainly misinterpret scripture. This idea is called fatalism, and suggests there is no freewill, but the Bible mentions that we have freewill, all over the place. The elect exist, but were not forced. God freely offers salvation to anyone who places their faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus as sufficient payment for their sin. This is mentioned in Romans 10:9-10. Why have such a scripture if it's not a invitation to everyone? You, in that scripture, sure seems to mean you, as in anyone. I see no limitations to it meaning anyone. It tells you how to accept, and why it works when you accept. (ESV) Romans 10:9-10 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. Christians reject fatalism and godless determinism. Rather, they understand that a wise, holy, good, and sovereign God has control of every detail of life (Matthew 10:29–30). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks Posted January 30, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,160 Content Per Day: 2.03 Reputation: 2,514 Days Won: 8 Joined: 01/20/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, missmuffet said: Christians reject fatalism and godless determinism. Rather, they understand that a wise, holy, good, and sovereign God has control of every detail of life God knows how everything will turn out and every choice you will make, for sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted January 30, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,994 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,692 Content Per Day: 11.75 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 30, 2022 1 minute ago, Sparks said: God knows how everything will turn out and every choice you will make, for sure. Yes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted January 30, 2022 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Author Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 1/30/2022 at 10:15 AM, missmuffet said: R.C. Sproul was thoroughly calvinist so I don't think I will support what he says. I have seen you display that prejudice before. There are people who say similar things about the apostle Paul, that is to their loss! I think missmuffet, the wise thing to do is to listen to what people have to say, use discernment, heed the Spirit, examine what people have to say, compare it with scripture, and then keep the good, toss out the bad. Do we attach a label to people and then assume that out of 1000 things they say, 1000 of those things will be wrong? Or is it better, to keep an open mind, and discover the 500 good things they say, and then accept those? I think we know the answers to those questions. As they say, even a broken clock is right twice a day. As I see it, there are people like Sproul who have their beliefs, and there are probably some Arminian leaning theologians who are Godly, and competent (there must be, but I cannot think of any at the moment). I am willing to hear what they have to say, and as an admin, if you post a good video from that perspective, I would approve it for others to see. If people always cling to their prejudices, no one would ever accept Christ! In the case of "Calvinism", I admit that I agree with Charles Spurgeon who said that “Calvinism is nothing more than a nickname for Biblical Christianity.” That is the only reason I believe it, though for me it is not Calvinism I support, I certainly do not know everything that Calvin ever said, and I doubt you do either. I do agree with the 5 points of the Dutch Reformed Church (that many people call Calvinism. I did not always do so, it is only after perhaps 35 years or so of diligent Bible study, that I came to embrace those points, or at least 4-1/2 of them. God does not make you believe the Bible, I do believe in free will enough to say that that is up to the individual. However, God does have a special love for those He has chosen, though I have no idea why He chooses them. However because He loves them, He is willing to give them a heart of flesh and a hunger for Him, such that they will willingly come to him. It is like a horse to water, God gives a thirst, but He does not make you drink - that thirst is a blessing, because if you do not drink, you will die! While I believe in free will, I think that it is also patently obvious that if God is omniscient, then He knows everything. If He knew that missmuffet was going to accept Jesus, there is nothing missmuffet could have done to make God wrong in His foreknowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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