Not Law but Life!

[WordSword]

The “law of sin” dominates mankind and I believe it is summed up in “the soul that sinneth, it shall die” (Eze 18:4, 20). This is “the law” all are under unless reborn. Additionally, to the people of Israel was given “the Law of God,” especially seen in the Decalogue, which only the Jews were under. There must be correct discernment concerning the interpretation of “the law of God,” which has two meanings. The Pentateuch, i.e. Law of Moses, e.g. Romans 7:1-14; and the general sense of God’s will concerning all things, e.g. 7:15-25. The Law of God relating to the prior concerning Israel is a different administration (dispensation) than the law of God concerning all in Christ (but same goals as that of obeying God). First, it was obedience via personal ability; presently, it’s via the Spirit’s indwelling using the Life of Christ in us (Eph 3:16; Col 3:4)!

Under “the Law,” blessings came by man’s works of obedience to God, which manifested faith in Him; under “Grace,” blessings come by the works of Christ to those with faith in Him! The significant difference between the two concerns the obvious administration of each. Law was in accordance to one’s walk and therefore temporal and varying, because “the old man” was still in “dominion” (Rom 6:14). Grace is in accordance to one’s faith in the Son, and the old man is restrained (“crucified” – Rom 6:6) from applying “dominion” (6:14), which is the old man’s ability to cause one to will after it. Via the Spirit using the new man, and the Father’s “work” (Phl 2:13), believers no longer desire after the old man’s ways (Rom 8:9); though reluctant sins persist for continued learning through repetitious exercising of faith in the acceptance that Christ’s expiation for their sin is permanent.
NC 

 

 

Not Law but Life!

“How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?” (Ro 6:2). We cannot if we are dead to it (and will not, manifesting rebirth; the law even enhanced the identification of sin - Rom 7:13—NC). Such is our position in Christ dead and risen, and that a real thing, by having a wholly new life in Him who is our Life (Col 3:4). “Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin” (Ro 6:6, 7). Then Paul shows how Christ died and is risen again and lives to God, and adds, “Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Ro 6:11).

“Let not sin rein,” he continues, “in your mortal body”; “for sin shall not have dominion over you (a promise—NC), for you are not under law but under grace” (Ro 6:12, 14). He then refers to the abuse the flesh (old man; sin nature—NC) would make of this; but, instead of insisting that the moral law was binding, shows them to be free from sin, and servants of righteousness unto God, yielding their “members servants to righteousness unto holiness” (v 19). Thus, by being dead and then alive in the life of Christ, are we freed from the power of sin.

In Chapter 7 Paul applies the same truth more elaborately to the law. You cannot, he insists, have two husbands at the same time (v3). Well, how is freedom to be obtained for the man under the law? He dies to that in which he was bound. The law could only assert its claim on the man as a living child of Adam. The “law has power over a man as long as he lives”; but I am dead to the law by the body of Christ; the bond of the law has absolutely, wholly and necessarily ceased, for the person is dead; and the law had power over him only as he lived.

Hence Paul says, in such strong and simple language, “When we were in the flesh (sin nature—NC), the motions of sins which were by the law, did work” (Ro 7:5). The law applies to man in the flesh; but we have died, we are no longer in the flesh (though it’s yet in us, we are no longer in it – Ro 8:9—NC): when we were, it applied. It applied to the flesh, provoked the sin, and condemned the sinner. But he died under it in Christ, and lives delivered from it in a new Life, which is Christ risen out of the reach and place of the law. He is not tied to the old husband; death has severed the bond, his own crucifixion and death in Christ, for he has owned that this was his affair as a sinner (Rom 7:14). He is married to another—Christ, who is risen from the dead, that he may bring forth fruit unto God. He is not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of Christ dwell in him; if not he is none of His (Rom 8:9).

You may say, Yes, but the flesh is still there, though he has a right and ought to reckon himself dead; and therefore he needs the law, not to put away sin, but that it may not have dominion over him. Bit I read, “Sin shall not have dominion over you, because you are not under law.” When I was in the flesh, the law was the occasion of the working of sin in my members. I have died to that, and the law cannot pass death. Godliness is in the new life, which lives by the faith of the Son of God.

Living in a risen Christ as one who has been taken out of the reach of the law by death—that is Christian life. The measure of that walk is Christ, not law. “He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked” (1Jo 2:6), that is the Scriptural rule of life for the believer. He is life, motive and example too: He lives in us, and the life which we live in the flesh we live by the faith of Him. It is as beholding in His face unveiled, the glory of the Lord, “we are changed into the same image from glory to glory” (2Co 3:18); and thus, He being engraved on the heart by the Spirit of the living God, we become the epistle of Christ.

Note well, it is there in contrast with the law on the tables of stone. We are to put on Christ, to put on the “new man” (the nature which is “after the image of Him that created it” – Col 3:10; 2Pe 1:4). This goes so far that it is said, “Hereby perceive we love, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren” (1Jn 3:16). The law knew no such principle, no such obligation as this. Was it the law which made Christ come and lay down His life for us? Does not this example show the extreme poverty of the thought, that the law is the rule of measure of our conduct?

The truth is this—there were two parts of Christ’s life. First, man’s obedience to God’s will, which itself went much further than the law; for the law did not require that path of grace and devotedness to man in which Christ walked. He did, as under the law, magnify and make it honorable. But there was another—the manifestation of God Himself in grace and graciousness. This is not law, it is life. It is the Father in goodness, not man in responsibility. It is mischievous to confound the two.

Will anyone say, But we are not, and cannot be, called upon to follow Christ in the latter! I reply, We are expressly called upon to do so, and never to follow Him under law. What Scripture says on this last point is that, if I love my neighbor as myself, I shall fulfill the law, so that I have no need to be under it; and, again, that in walking after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law (summed up in love to others—NC) will be fulfilled in me (Rom 8:4 – not the law itself but righteousness to which it directed in Christ Jesus - Gal 3:24—NC), and produce what the law could not do (directed but not delivered - Rom 8:3 —NC), because “it was weak through the flesh” (Rom 8:3). The Spirit will produce fruit against which “there is no law” (Gal 5:23).

It is new life and nature, guided by the Spirit and formed by the Word (Gal 5:25), growing up in the Head “in all things” (Eph 4:15); but looking through grace at Christ does “change us into the same image” (2Co 3:18). In this path of Christ manifesting the Father, He is expressly set before us as our pattern. “Be ye followers of God as dear children, and walk in love, as Christ hath love us, and given Himself for us a sacrifice and an offering to God of a sweet smelling savor” (Eph 5:1, 2).

We are called upon to “be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing” (Col 1:9, 10), not according to the law. “We are renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created us” (the new man – Col 3:10). See this character described: “Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye” (Col 3:12, 13). If anyone desires to have a complete exhibition of Christian life, the Life of Christ risen in us, let him study Colossians 3:1-17.

Law is the measure of man’s responsibility (instead of the Spirit’s enablement—NC) as such to God. It is perfect as such and no more, and could not have been more than the measure of man’s walk. Christ was perfect in this as in everything; but He went farther and manifested the Father Himself in His own sovereign grace and goodness, and we are to follow Him here as in His obedience to the Father. He and He alone is our pattern, and nothing else. He is the Object for the heart to rest on, and is to govern it, and to which is to grow like. He is the motive and spring, the very Source of conduct in us (Jhn 14:20; Gal 2:20), which the law cannot be. For it is not life, nor gives it, nor feeds it.

—J N Darby (1800-1882)

 

 

MJS devotional excerpt for Feb 5

"Are we aware of the importance of a personal assurance of salvation? Healthy spiritual growth is founded upon it. Many Christians seem unable to enter Romans Six and Eight simply because they are not truly established in Romans Three, Four and Five. Full assurance as to our eternal security in the Lord Jesus is the basis for the ever-deepening experience of our identification with Him." - Miles J Stanford
http://www.abideabove.com/hungry-heart/

[MrBear]

You might be interested in this discussion I find it interesting 

“THE ROMANS 7 DEBATE | ADAMIC NATURE OR CHRISTIAN STRUGGLE?”

it gets interesting at minute 30 

WAS THE  ‘I’ referring the unconverted Paul or was Paul identifying with Adam?

I personally believe he was using the i to mean his own life 

Edited February 7, 2022 by MrBear

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, MrBear said:

You might be interested in this discussion I find it interesting 

“THE ROMANS 7 DEBATE | ADAMIC NATURE OR CHRISTIAN STRUGGLE?”

it gets interesting at minute 30 

WAS THE  ‘I’ referring the unconverted Paul or was Paul identifying with Adam?

I personally believe he was using the i to mean his own life 

It's my understanding that there are only two types of nature within a being; holy or unholy. Christians have both but are not considered after the unholy nature (Rom 8:9). Thus it is obvious that Paul demonstrates the two "I's" (old man and new man) in this Chapter (unless this isn't to what you're referring).

[MrBear]

The actual scripture that was referred to was 

Romans 7:7-12

There are some that think  Paul was speaking as Adam coveting the tree of knowledge and sin leading to his death,  when you insert Adam into this scripture it almost makes sense but the debate I feel like Paul was still referring to himself

thought it was a thought provoking topic as I saw you reference Romans 7 it reminded me of that

Edited February 7, 2022 by MrBear

[Guest]

5 hours ago, MrBear said:

The actual scripture that was referred to was 

Romans 7:7-12

There are some that think  Paul was speaking as Adam coveting the tree of knowledge and sin leading to his death,  when you insert Adam into this scripture it almost makes sense but the debate I feel like Paul was still referring to himself

thought it was a thought provoking topic as I saw you reference Romans 7 it reminded me of that

I see, thanks for the interest!

[Seeker1834]

On 2/5/2022 at 9:01 AM, WordSword said:

The “law of sin” dominates mankind and I believe it is summed up in “the soul that sinneth, it shall die” (Eze 18:4, 20). This is “the law” all are under unless reborn. Additionally, to the people of Israel was given “the Law of God,” especially seen in the Decalogue, which only the Jews were under. There must be correct discernment concerning the interpretation of “the law of God,” which has two meanings. The Pentateuch, i.e. Law of Moses, e.g. Romans 7:1-14; and the general sense of God’s will concerning all things, e.g. 7:15-25. The Law of God relating to the prior concerning Israel is a different administration (dispensation) than the law of God concerning all in Christ (but same goals as that of obeying God). First, it was obedience via personal ability; presently, it’s via the Spirit’s indwelling using the Life of Christ in us (Eph 3:16; Col 3:4)!

Under “the Law,” blessings came by man’s works of obedience to God, which manifested faith in Him; under “Grace,” blessings come by the works of Christ to those with faith in Him! The significant difference between the two concerns the obvious administration of each. Law was in accordance to one’s walk and therefore temporal and varying, because “the old man” was still in “dominion” (Rom 6:14). Grace is in accordance to one’s faith in the Son, and the old man is restrained (“crucified” – Rom 6:6) from applying “dominion” (6:14), which is the old man’s ability to cause one to will after it. Via the Spirit using the new man, and the Father’s “work” (Phl 2:13), believers no longer desire after the old man’s ways (Rom 8:9); though reluctant sins persist for continued learning through repetitious exercising of faith in the acceptance that Christ’s expiation for their sin is permanent.
NC 

 

 

Not Law but Life!

“How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?” (Ro 6:2). We cannot if we are dead to it (and will not, manifesting rebirth; the law even enhanced the identification of sin - Rom 7:13—NC). Such is our position in Christ dead and risen, and that a real thing, by having a wholly new life in Him who is our Life (Col 3:4). “Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin” (Ro 6:6, 7). Then Paul shows how Christ died and is risen again and lives to God, and adds, “Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Ro 6:11).

“Let not sin rein,” he continues, “in your mortal body”; “for sin shall not have dominion over you (a promise—NC), for you are not under law but under grace” (Ro 6:12, 14). He then refers to the abuse the flesh (old man; sin nature—NC) would make of this; but, instead of insisting that the moral law was binding, shows them to be free from sin, and servants of righteousness unto God, yielding their “members servants to righteousness unto holiness” (v 19). Thus, by being dead and then alive in the life of Christ, are we freed from the power of sin.

In Chapter 7 Paul applies the same truth more elaborately to the law. You cannot, he insists, have two husbands at the same time (v3). Well, how is freedom to be obtained for the man under the law? He dies to that in which he was bound. The law could only assert its claim on the man as a living child of Adam. The “law has power over a man as long as he lives”; but I am dead to the law by the body of Christ; the bond of the law has absolutely, wholly and necessarily ceased, for the person is dead; and the law had power over him only as he lived.

Hence Paul says, in such strong and simple language, “When we were in the flesh (sin nature—NC), the motions of sins which were by the law, did work” (Ro 7:5). The law applies to man in the flesh; but we have died, we are no longer in the flesh (though it’s yet in us, we are no longer in it – Ro 8:9—NC): when we were, it applied. It applied to the flesh, provoked the sin, and condemned the sinner. But he died under it in Christ, and lives delivered from it in a new Life, which is Christ risen out of the reach and place of the law. He is not tied to the old husband; death has severed the bond, his own crucifixion and death in Christ, for he has owned that this was his affair as a sinner (Rom 7:14). He is married to another—Christ, who is risen from the dead, that he may bring forth fruit unto God. He is not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of Christ dwell in him; if not he is none of His (Rom 8:9).

You may say, Yes, but the flesh is still there, though he has a right and ought to reckon himself dead; and therefore he needs the law, not to put away sin, but that it may not have dominion over him. Bit I read, “Sin shall not have dominion over you, because you are not under law.” When I was in the flesh, the law was the occasion of the working of sin in my members. I have died to that, and the law cannot pass death. Godliness is in the new life, which lives by the faith of the Son of God.

Living in a risen Christ as one who has been taken out of the reach of the law by death—that is Christian life. The measure of that walk is Christ, not law. “He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked” (1Jo 2:6), that is the Scriptural rule of life for the believer. He is life, motive and example too: He lives in us, and the life which we live in the flesh we live by the faith of Him. It is as beholding in His face unveiled, the glory of the Lord, “we are changed into the same image from glory to glory” (2Co 3:18); and thus, He being engraved on the heart by the Spirit of the living God, we become the epistle of Christ.

Note well, it is there in contrast with the law on the tables of stone. We are to put on Christ, to put on the “new man” (the nature which is “after the image of Him that created it” – Col 3:10; 2Pe 1:4). This goes so far that it is said, “Hereby perceive we love, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren” (1Jn 3:16). The law knew no such principle, no such obligation as this. Was it the law which made Christ come and lay down His life for us? Does not this example show the extreme poverty of the thought, that the law is the rule of measure of our conduct?

The truth is this—there were two parts of Christ’s life. First, man’s obedience to God’s will, which itself went much further than the law; for the law did not require that path of grace and devotedness to man in which Christ walked. He did, as under the law, magnify and make it honorable. But there was another—the manifestation of God Himself in grace and graciousness. This is not law, it is life. It is the Father in goodness, not man in responsibility. It is mischievous to confound the two.

Will anyone say, But we are not, and cannot be, called upon to follow Christ in the latter! I reply, We are expressly called upon to do so, and never to follow Him under law. What Scripture says on this last point is that, if I love my neighbor as myself, I shall fulfill the law, so that I have no need to be under it; and, again, that in walking after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law (summed up in love to others—NC) will be fulfilled in me (Rom 8:4 – not the law itself but righteousness to which it directed in Christ Jesus - Gal 3:24—NC), and produce what the law could not do (directed but not delivered - Rom 8:3 —NC), because “it was weak through the flesh” (Rom 8:3). The Spirit will produce fruit against which “there is no law” (Gal 5:23).

It is new life and nature, guided by the Spirit and formed by the Word (Gal 5:25), growing up in the Head “in all things” (Eph 4:15); but looking through grace at Christ does “change us into the same image” (2Co 3:18). In this path of Christ manifesting the Father, He is expressly set before us as our pattern. “Be ye followers of God as dear children, and walk in love, as Christ hath love us, and given Himself for us a sacrifice and an offering to God of a sweet smelling savor” (Eph 5:1, 2).

We are called upon to “be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing” (Col 1:9, 10), not according to the law. “We are renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created us” (the new man – Col 3:10). See this character described: “Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye” (Col 3:12, 13). If anyone desires to have a complete exhibition of Christian life, the Life of Christ risen in us, let him study Colossians 3:1-17.

Law is the measure of man’s responsibility (instead of the Spirit’s enablement—NC) as such to God. It is perfect as such and no more, and could not have been more than the measure of man’s walk. Christ was perfect in this as in everything; but He went farther and manifested the Father Himself in His own sovereign grace and goodness, and we are to follow Him here as in His obedience to the Father. He and He alone is our pattern, and nothing else. He is the Object for the heart to rest on, and is to govern it, and to which is to grow like. He is the motive and spring, the very Source of conduct in us (Jhn 14:20; Gal 2:20), which the law cannot be. For it is not life, nor gives it, nor feeds it.

—J N Darby (1800-1882)

 

 

MJS devotional excerpt for Feb 5

"Are we aware of the importance of a personal assurance of salvation? Healthy spiritual growth is founded upon it. Many Christians seem unable to enter Romans Six and Eight simply because they are not truly established in Romans Three, Four and Five. Full assurance as to our eternal security in the Lord Jesus is the basis for the ever-deepening experience of our identification with Him." - Miles J Stanford
http://www.abideabove.com/hungry-heart/

Eph 2: 11-15 and 19-22 to me these clarify where gentiles should stand but I find many have different beliefs

[Willa]

I find that Romans 8 is the answer to the quandary of Romans 7.  When we walk in response to the Spirit we don't obey the old man or the flesh.  It has to do where we focus our attention.  We have to keep our focus on Jesus to walk on the water or walk in the Spirit.  When we focus on the flesh we fall.  

Rom 8:5  For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.  Rom 8:6  For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Seeker1834 said:

Eph 2: 11-15 and 19-22 to me these clarify where gentiles should stand but I find many have different beliefs

Hi, and thanks for the reply! This is a good applicable comment concerning the Gentiles position in God, which for all--in Christ. The distraction and misunderstanding, esp. for the last century or so is the false concept of attempting to mix the Law with Christianity. I think it's still going to be quite a while (if ever in this life) before the generality of the Church catches on to the truth that "the law of commandments contained in ordinances" was "abolished" (Eph 2:15). I'm thinking many are not reading through the NT because this truth is presented numerous times in it!

Misunderstanding here stunts the believer's growth in Christ (making trials harder to endure), but not their salvation in Him; and it's my belief that the eternal "rewards" (1Co 3:14) will be related to positions of authority according to the level of maturity in Christ attained in this life (not a necessary doctrine but interesting to me).

 

 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Willa said:

I find that Romans 8 is the answer to the quandary of Romans 7.  When we walk in response to the Spirit we don't obey the old man or the flesh.  It has to do where we focus our attention.  We have to keep our focus on Jesus to walk on the water or walk in the Spirit.  When we focus on the flesh we fall.  

Rom 8:5  For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.  Rom 8:6  For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.

I like your comments and appreciate the input! Also wanted to comment that the dichotomy (2 natures) Paul demonstrates in Ro 7 is that of one who is reborn (many think he is not reborn in this discourse). Thus Ro 8 is the Christians position and Ro 7 his condition (saved and still learning God's will via the contrast of the old man and new man).

[Seeker1834]

6 hours ago, WordSword said:

Hi, and thanks for the reply! This is a good applicable comment concerning the Gentiles position in God, which for all--in Christ. The distraction and misunderstanding, esp. for the last century or so is the false concept of attempting to mix the Law with Christianity. I think it's still going to be quite a while (if ever in this life) before the generality of the Church catches on to the truth that "the law of commandments contained in ordinances" was "abolished" (Eph 2:15). I'm thinking many are not reading through the NT because this truth is presented numerous times in it!

Misunderstanding here stunts the believer's growth in Christ (making trials harder to endure), but not their salvation in Him; and it's my belief that the eternal "rewards" (1Co 3:14) will be related to positions of authority according to the level of maturity in Christ attained in this life (not a necessary doctrine but interesting to me).

 

Sounds like we are on the same page.  I've not found many that agree with me on this. Thanks