Anne2 Posted April 7, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,499 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 621 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted April 7, 2022 56 minutes ago, tim_from_pa said: Let me summarize about Israel: Man, created in God's image was to be ruler over this earth. instead, he fell to Satan's lie and sold himself to Satan as master to which he has to be bought back (i.e. redeemed). The whole salvation process is about bringing mankind back to what he was supposed to become and as some insightful people noticed, Revelation is the reversal process of Genesis. Enter Israel. In order to set up the Kingdom of God, The Lord had to call certain people from which a nation would come to bring on God's Kingdom (and Messiah) for mankind's redemption. This Kingdom was how it was also supposed to be without the sin. The Law was revealed as well to show the standards of righteousness for this Kingdom. Those standards are still with us today. Israel was to become a light to the nations to bring that to people. They failed, but only to show that while the standards are right, we cannot do it alone without God. The ceremony of the Law was to bring us to Christ (i.e. foreshadow Christ). It was God's plan to reveal things in this manner to bring on the new Adam by which this Kingdom can ultimately be established. It is worthy to note how this Kingdom would come about and how it is structured: there are at least 10 major promises to Abraham for this Kingdom involving becoming a great people, a great nation, a multitude of nations, many Kings, militarily mighty by controlling the gates of his enemies, blessings of all sorts of resources and so forth. There are 3 tribes mentioned that have significant promises: Levi has the priesthood. Judah has the Kingly lineage (thus ultimately the Messiah) and Joseph has the birthright of becoming many nations and peoples. Jesus is from Judah, of course, and the small church (Christians) all whom will rule and reign over the rest, including all of Joseph and as Paul said, Abraham would be heir of the entire world. That's because the Kingdom of God will entail the whole world. When Jesus returns, then the Kingdom will ultimately be realized, and it will be based, and indeed an extension of what was patterned in Israel. The bible is a book about Israel and the Kingdom of God restoring what man lost by his fall. Israel is God's Kingdom over the world but only perfected by the forgiveness of sin, and proper ruling by Christ. All that said, this only takes us to the prophetic feast of Tabernacles (the Millennium). There's one more feast where people will be raised, saved and/or judged: the last Great Day (John 7:37) to usher in the new heavens and earth. The important thing to remember is that even during the Millennium, we are still in this present earth age but under the reign of Messiah and his Church being a light to this world. After that there is a new heaven and earth. That's the ultimate Kingdom. Are you responding to someone in particular? Or just giving a general statement for all to ponder? :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_from_pa Posted April 7, 2022 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 449 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 302 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/13/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted April 7, 2022 50 minutes ago, Anne2 said: Are you responding to someone in particular? Or just giving a general statement for all to ponder? :-) The latter... a summary to no one in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_from_pa Posted April 8, 2022 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 449 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 302 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/13/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted April 8, 2022 3 hours ago, Josheb said: Would you mind providing me with the verse describing the sale of Adam to Satan? Would you mind providing the scripture reporting satan was the one paid the redemption price? Once those to requests have been met, would you mind providing an explanation for how the sinful satan was also not sold, enslaved, and dead in his own trespass? The price paid by Christ was for the penalty of sin. Not paid to Satan-- its the price God Himself demands. Adam was sold under sin (Paul's expression). It was the temptation of Satan that man disobeyed so in his flesh sin is now his master and the reason Satan is the god of this world. Maybe not the best wording on my part, but it's no worse that the common saying the "law was nailed to his cross" and thus the erroneous belief that it was done away with. The Law are the righteous standards of God, and man is in alignment with that by faith and obedience. Christ paid the penalty for the consequences of sin (i.e. death) but the standards are still in effect otherwise there would be no sin. Back to Israel.... the thread is about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steward George Posted April 9, 2022 Group: Steward Followers: 110 Topic Count: 10,465 Topics Per Day: 1.25 Content Count: 27,787 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 15,483 Days Won: 129 Joined: 06/30/2001 Status: Online Birthday: 09/21/1971 Author Steward Share Posted April 9, 2022 “Yet the number of the children of Israel Shall be as the sand of the sea, Which cannot be measured or numbered. And it shall come to pass In the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ There it shall be said to them, ‘You are sons of the living God.’ Then the children of Judah and the children of Israel Shall be gathered together, And appoint for themselves one head; And they shall come up out of the land, For great will be the day of Jezreel! Hosea 1:10-11 NKJV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne2 Posted April 11, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,499 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 621 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted April 11, 2022 On 4/2/2022 at 8:22 AM, George said: This is what I said in a different thread ... One must be careful of how the term Israel is used. For example, when Paul says, Israel -- brethren of my flesh, in Romans 9-11 ... this is talking about the Jewish people! In saying brethren in the flesh, it means the Jewish people? What do you mean by the Jewish people? Are you meaning bloodline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steward George Posted April 11, 2022 Group: Steward Followers: 110 Topic Count: 10,465 Topics Per Day: 1.25 Content Count: 27,787 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 15,483 Days Won: 129 Joined: 06/30/2001 Status: Online Birthday: 09/21/1971 Author Steward Share Posted April 11, 2022 1 minute ago, Anne2 said: In saying brethren in the flesh, it means the Jewish people? What do you mean by the Jewish people? Are you meaning bloodline? Jewish people is always bloodline of the flesh. The semantics come into play when using the term Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne2 Posted April 11, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,499 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 621 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted April 11, 2022 Just now, George said: Jewish people is always bloodline of the flesh. The semantics come into play when using the term Israel. Ok, I just wanted that clarification. Why do you think bloodline as opposed to circumcision in the flesh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted April 11, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,054 Content Per Day: 6.50 Reputation: 9,018 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted April 11, 2022 42 minutes ago, George said: Jewish people is always bloodline of the flesh. The semantics come into play when using the term Israel. Yup. Its needful to keep three things in mind. Israel-the nation (long ago and now), Israel after the flesh and the Israel of God, which we now know is 'Christ'--which the OT dudes did not understand and the Jews of today do not--unless of course they are 'In Christ' of the Father. :-) To parse a bit---Israel the Nation as the covenant people in obedience to God and the nation of Israel of today are two different things. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne2 Posted April 11, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,499 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 621 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted April 11, 2022 15 minutes ago, Alive said: Yup. Its needful to keep three things in mind. Israel-the nation (long ago and now), Israel after the flesh and the Israel of God, which we now know is 'Christ'--which the OT dudes did not understand and the Jews of today do not--unless of course they are 'In Christ' of the Father. :-) To parse a bit---Israel the Nation as the covenant people in obedience to God and the nation of Israel of today are two different things. :-) So you agree that is the meaning of Paul concerning brethren in the flesh, is bloodline and not circumcision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted April 11, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 11,054 Content Per Day: 6.50 Reputation: 9,018 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted April 11, 2022 10 minutes ago, Anne2 said: So you agree that is the meaning of Paul concerning brethren in the flesh, is bloodline and not circumcision? @Anne I am not sue what you mean. Maybe I can say a couple things to help us understand each other. Paul understood and spoke about him being a Jew after the flesh and the Jews were also referred to as "the circumcision". Paul made distinctions between being an Israelite after the flesh and 'true' Israel. He also talked about the fact that in Christ there is neither jew, greek, etc. The partition had been broken down by and in Christ. He also talked about a different sort of circumcision. So what are your talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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