OneAccord Posted June 2, 2003 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 147 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,587 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/03/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted June 2, 2003 I think it's quite likely that the Roadmap will be so watered down after it gets revised and revised that it won't look much like it does now. Bush has an election coming up and this is political suicide for him to push it the way it stands right now. I suppose he could distract us with another war, too, like maybe Iran this time? Or how about Syria? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted June 12, 2003 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 92 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/05/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted June 12, 2003 Here's what Hal Lindsey had to say on the matter (quoted without permission) The Middle East Peace Paradox It seemed simple. The formula was "land for peace." Simply put, the formula was this: Israel gives up part of her homeland in exchange for a promise of non-aggression by the Palestinians. In legal terms it would be extortion, but in this context, color it "statesmanship." In exchange for limited autonomy, the Palestinian Authority agreed not to demand its own state. Jerusalem's status as Israel's "eternal, undivided capital" was non-negotiable. No more incitement to Israel's destruction by Arab leaders. Arafat promised full access to the holy places for adherents of all faiths. Oslo's terms demanded a probationary period for the PA; first, limited autonomy for three years; then two years to review the PA's progress and expand PA autonomy accordingly, and finally, two years to discuss the final status of who would administer Jerusalem's holy places. Formal statehood was never on the table. In the 1993 deal, it was specifically denied. The PA agreed not to conduct PA business inside Jerusalem's city limits as a concession to preempt PA hopes of a shared capital. Arafat and Rabin signed the Oslo Accords on the White House lawn, with the whole world as witnesses. Presumably, both had read it. Before the ink had dried, Arafat was giving press conferences announcing a planned Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital! Subsequent agreements coerced by Western leaders and fueled by the media's distortion of the original deal, resulted in Israel signing away all it had, a piece at a time. Ten years later, it still isn't enough for real peace, and there's nothing left to give up but Jerusalem. It would appear, at this juncture, that the Middle East peace process is insoluble. Even President Clinton, desperate for a legacy that doesn't begin "first elected president to be impeached," has written it off as hopeless. A lot of time and energy could have been saved by recognizing the reality of the Middle East conflict -- it was always insoluble. Roots of conflict The conflict didn't begin in 1948, it traces its roots all the way back to Abraham. His two sons, Ishmael and Isaac, fathered the two Semitic races today known as Arabs and Jews. The Old Testament teaches that the Divine Promise flowed through the descendants of Abraham's second son, Isaac. The Jews are descended from Isaac. The Koran teaches the Divine Promise flows through Abraham's first born son, Ishmael, and his descendants, the Arab peoples. The Bible says Abraham was ordered to offer Isaac as a sacrifice to God on Mount Moriah, and that God stopped him at the last moment. The Koran substitutes Ishmael and claims the Jews altered the story. The Jews claim Jerusalem as a Divine birthright and the seat of the Holy of Holies located on Temple Mount. The Koran promises land conquered for Allah would remain Islamic in perpetuity. Modern Islamic thought teaches Mohammed ascended to Paradise from the site of the Dome of the Rock, on Temple Mount in Jerusalem. In both cases, the stone on which Abraham prepared to offer the sacrifice of either Isaac or Ishmael, depending on your perspective, is located on Temple Mount, or Mount Moriah, located in Jerusalem. A price too high Herein lies the insoluble nature of the question. For the Arabs to recognize Israel's right to exist on land once conquered for Allah is tantamount to saying the Koran is wrong. In essence, it would force an admission that the foundational document of the entire Islamic religious worldview is unreliable. To recognize Israeli sovereignty over the Temple Mount would compound that blasphemy. Which is why Arab leaders from King Abdullah of Jordan to Bashar Assad of Syria to King Fahd of Saudi Arabia speak with one voice when they said "no compromise on Jerusalem." To say otherwise is to tempt the fate of Anwar Sadat. On the Israeli side, recognizing Arab sovereignty over Jerusalem and the Temple Mount is a tacit admission the Bible was somehow incorrect in its references to Jerusalem as both the City of God and the City of David. Whichever side gives in doesn't just lose a city, a place of worship, or territory. Peace between Arab and Jew demands the sacrifice of the defining religious identity of an entire people! A solution awaiting the problem The Arab-Israeli conflict is spiritual in its breadth and scope, the political elements are secondary. The spiritual nature of the argument makes a political war in the immediate future virtually a foregone conclusion. But the Bible says that a solution will be found. A leader will rise from obscurity who will seemingly hit on the perfect compromise balancing between the religious and political obstacles to peace. The Hebrew Prophet Daniel identifies this genius as a leader of the revived Roman Empire. Brilliant and charismatic, he will captivate the watching world. The Bible's scenario was impossible for most of the past 2,000 years. There was no Israel to make peace with. Today, Israel exists on the precise piece of real estate the Bible promised. The conflict is there, awaiting the predicted Roman peacemaker. The revived Roman Empire, the European Union, is in place, at peace and operating as a unified government, for the first time since the days of Caesar. Everything is ready for the time appointed. One element remains -- the peacemaker! Who is he? We don't know his name. But the Bible identifies him as the Antichrist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted June 13, 2003 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 13, 2003 Is President Bush condemming Israel? Do we see prophecy beig fulfilled before our eyes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted June 13, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 276 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 7,474 Content Per Day: 0.97 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1966 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Yep, He's condemning Israel. Could be a special time, these next few years. (months, days, hours?) But condemning Israel for protecting itself is not new to our presidents. Clinton, Bush Sr, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, they all did it. I guess that a president has to to show that He's not overly one-sided in the issue. And there lies the problem. We better get on the right side and stand by Israel before God Himself decides to come and end the game. t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted June 13, 2003 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 13, 2003 Ted, we know who will end this game...! And it says that the whole world will turn against Israel, so why are we suprised. Right? Everything seem to go so fast........! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catsmeow Posted June 13, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 439 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 7,315 Content Per Day: 0.93 Reputation: 356 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/21/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted June 13, 2003 I know the whole world will turn against Israel but here's where I get confused...the sequencing of events throws me a bit... When does the AC come in and make peace...? Jesus says that one will come that the Jews WILL accept...while they reject the true Messiah. So when does the AC come in and make peace...? Is it after the world comes against the Jews or is it AFTER??? The sequence of events is confusing...does anyone know which comes first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted June 13, 2003 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 276 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 7,474 Content Per Day: 0.97 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1966 Share Posted June 13, 2003 .... The Rapture or the egg???.. Sorry, couldn't resist. I'd have to brush up on the details to give you an intelligent answer and I'm ready for bed. Your'e right on time, angels4u. I really don't think there will be a peace in Israel. At least not a man-made one, anyway. The Bible does describe a 3 1/2 year peace after the Rapture though. That peace will be during a 7 year peace negotiated by the anti-christ himself. The a/c will be so wonderful in the worlds eyes. He won't be Rep. or Dem. He won't be like anything the world has ever seen. Subtle in his ways. He'll seem to have all the answers to the worlds ills. He won't be like any of the current politicians because the world will submit to him. Even if you do disagree with his ways, his minions will ensure that you never get heard. He will blind everyone. His answers will be the answers that the world is looking for. That's how it will be so easy to submit to his mark, his monetary system, and his church. We may not understand how the world could fall for these things so easily, but haven't we already begun to toss aside freedoms for security. Today's practices are seemingly a softening up process for the not so distant future. No, the beast will not be a Dem. or Rep. Y'see, we are able to disagree with those in other political mind-sets today. We see big differences between the two as far as how to go about the business of the world.But the a/c will be so endearing, so sweet to the ears of all that will listen. He'll have all the answers to the great debates, and he will come to power. He'll actually be the one to negotiate peace in the middle east. A 7 year peace deal that will lower the readiness of the world. Then--- WHAM! He'll turn on his great supporter, the apostate church. The church that he will "ride" to power. The church that will back him and support him. (Ok, I'll say it now- The revived roman empire- The papacy) He'll declare himself to be God, and lead the world the the final battle at Meggido. Be glad that you have accepted Christ already, for we will watch this from the Heavens. Or, return with Jesus as one of His Saints. Glory be to God and His only Son. We will be raptured. The only way I can descibe this feeling is to remember the times that I go to see the 4th of July fireworks. I find a nice, safe place to relax and view the scene from a distance. How wonderful that day will be, when Jesus comes to take us up. Awed in Glory, t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted June 14, 2003 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 14, 2003 Hi Ted and Cat, I believe too that the Antichrist is going to be a charasmatic person, he has to be if the whole world follows him and Israel will think its the Messiah! I also believe those things will come to pass after the church is gone and then those things will be revealed to the world. I don't think we will be here when Israel is going to sign that contract with the A.C. That's why its so important to be ready at any time now to leave this world. I believe the A.C, might soon come to try this last chance to make peace in the middle east. :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: Time for the sleepy heads to wake up!!!! Angels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted June 14, 2003 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Author Share Posted June 14, 2003 Hi Cat, I think that the whole world will come up to fight against Israel in the latter part of the tribulation, just before Jesus return. After that ,when Jesus comes back for the second time the Millenium will start. The first 3 years of the Tribulation will be peaceful because the A>C. had all the answers and he seems to be a nice person....but wait until he reveals who he really is in the second part of the Tribulation! Love you in Christ,Angels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted June 14, 2003 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Sorry Angels I dont quite follow your last post. Are you saying that Jesus is coming again twice? Please tell me I have mistaken you. in love, eric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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