Different peoples, Different covenants, Different deaths, will NEVER fit into an 'either/or' explanation

DeighAnn · April 22, 2022

1. Life, death, dead to the end, 2nd death, BOTH (vessels of destruction, ways of the world, synagogue of Satan)

2. Life, death, dead, 1st resurrection, OLD (never heard till Christ descended, raised up with Him when He ascended, when graves opened)
3. Life, death, alive, 1st resurrection, OLD (under the law, raised up with Him when He ascended,  when graves opened)
4. Life, skip death, 1st resurrection, OLD (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob etc., never die, go be where HE IS)

5. Life, skip death, 1st resurrection NEW (while living believe, never die, go be where He is)
6. Life, death, dead, 2nd resurrection, NEW (never heard, raised when Christ returns to hear during Millennium then found in book of life)
7. Life, death, dead, 2nd death, NEW (never heard, raised when Christ returns to hear during Millennium then found in lake of fire)

8. Life, never die, 1st resurrection, BOTH (alive and remaining, Enoch and Elijah)

ONLY ONE TIME POSSIBLE "TO RISE WITH HIM"
after that the 'living pass through death'
GO TO BE WHERE HE IS.

1.  Life, death, dead to the end, 2nd death, BOTH  (vessels of destruction, ways of the world, synagogue of Satan)

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

2. Life, death, dead, 1st resurrection, OLD (never heard TRUTH until Christ descended, raised up with Him when He ascended, when graves opened)

Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent 52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Ephesians 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ 8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

3. Life, death, alive, 1st resurrection, OLD (under the law, raised up with Him when He ascended, when graves opened)

Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent 52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Ephesians 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ 8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

4. Life, skip death, 1st resurrection, OLD (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob etc., never die, go to be where HE IS)

Mark 12:23 In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife 24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? 25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven 26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? 27 He is NOT the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

5. Life, skip death, 1st resurrection NEW (while living believe, never die, go be where He is)

Colossians 2:12 BURIED WITH HIM, wherein ALSO YE ARE RISEN WITH HIM through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath HE QUICKENED TOGETHER WITH HIM, having forgiven you all trespasses 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow Me afterwards 37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake 38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit .5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6. Life, death, dead, 2nd resurrection, NEW (never heard, raised when Christ returns, will come to faith during Millennium, then found in book of life)

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets 15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

7. Life, death, dead, 2nd death, NEW (never heard, raised when Christ returns to hear during Millennium then found in lake of fire)

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets 15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Luke 12:4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do 5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

8. Life, never die, 1st resurrection, BOTH (alive and remaining, Enoch and Elijah)

Daniel 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Daniel 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

I believe

AdHoc · May 1, 2022

On 4/22/2022 at 10:00 PM, DeighAnn said:

1. Life, death, dead to the end, 2nd death, BOTH (vessels of destruction, ways of the world, synagogue of Satan)

2. Life, death, dead, 1st resurrection, OLD (never heard till Christ descended, raised up with Him when He ascended, when graves opened)
3. Life, death, alive, 1st resurrection, OLD (under the law, raised up with Him when He ascended,  when graves opened)
4. Life, skip death, 1st resurrection, OLD (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob etc., never die, go be where HE IS)

5. Life, skip death, 1st resurrection NEW (while living believe, never die, go be where He is)
6. Life, death, dead, 2nd resurrection, NEW (never heard, raised when Christ returns to hear during Millennium then found in book of life)
7. Life, death, dead, 2nd death, NEW (never heard, raised when Christ returns to hear during Millennium then found in lake of fire)

8. Life, never die, 1st resurrection, BOTH (alive and remaining, Enoch and Elijah)

ONLY ONE TIME POSSIBLE "TO RISE WITH HIM"
after that the 'living pass through death'
GO TO BE WHERE HE IS.

1.  Life, death, dead to the end, 2nd death, BOTH  (vessels of destruction, ways of the world, synagogue of Satan)

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

2. Life, death, dead, 1st resurrection, OLD  (never heard TRUTH until Christ descended, raised up with Him when He ascended, when graves opened)

Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent 52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Ephesians 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ 8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

3. Life, death, alive, 1st resurrection, OLD (under the law, raised up with Him when He ascended,  when graves opened)

Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost  51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent  52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose  53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Ephesians 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ  8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men  9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?  10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

4. Life, skip death, 1st resurrection, OLD (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob etc., never die, go to be where HE IS)

Mark 12:23 In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife 24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? 25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven 26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? 27 He is NOT the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

5. Life, skip death, 1st resurrection NEW (while living believe, never die, go be where He is)

Colossians 2:12 BURIED WITH HIM, wherein ALSO YE ARE RISEN WITH HIM through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath HE QUICKENED TOGETHER WITH HIM, having forgiven you all trespasses 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross 15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow Me afterwards 37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake 38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you  3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit .5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6. Life, death, dead, 2nd resurrection, NEW  (never heard, raised when Christ returns, will come to faith during Millennium, then found in book of life)

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets 15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

7. Life, death, dead, 2nd death, NEW (never heard, raised when Christ returns to hear during Millennium then found in lake of fire)

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets 15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Luke 12:4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do 5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

8. Life, never die, 1st resurrection, BOTH (alive and remaining, Enoch and Elijah)

Daniel 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Daniel 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

I believe

I'm not sure what your goal was, so if a miss the mark, please forgive. It looks like you wish to reconcile the various resurrections and from the title, wished to show on what basis they are judged - whether by Covenant of by Faith. My goal is not to put argumets forth that were never contended, but to use this opportunity to show the destiny of various peoples of earth. Let me start by defining death and its cause.

TWO DEATHS
The reader of scripture needs no special qualification to ascertain that there are TWO DEATHS. They are;

Physical death, or the death of the body in which the animation of the body ceases and the body itself does not renew itself and rots back to the elements it came from. According to Romans Chapter 5 the cause of the is death is Adam's transgression which is passed on by the male to his offspring. Thus, every one is headed for death, and a 1 day old baby can die without ever having had a coherent thought.
The Second Death. In Matthew 10:28 God warned people that a much more fearsome death awaited the wicked. It was a STATE where a LIVING man would experience exquisite lack of well-being in body and soul. An example would be a man who is in the middle of an ugly divorce, while his business is failing, while his beloved child is killed, while his friends reject and mock him and while he himself has a terrible debilitating cancer of the face, spreading to all his organs. This "perdition", as it is called by scripture, is God's retribution for evil works

Resurrection pertains only to point #1. Resurrection is God's solution to physical death. And since death is foreign to, and an enemy of, God, it will be subdued and defeated. Thus, 1st Corinthians 15:22 says that just as all men are headed for death because they had their origin IN Adam, all men are headed for resurrection because Christ has subdued death and a new creation has its origin IN Him. With resurrection a fact of the Bible, the only questions remaining are:

When is resurrection
With what body do they come out of a state of being scattered among the elements

But the OP alluded to Judgment, so I will briefly deal with this point at the end.

1. The raising of the dead is given to Jesus Christ Who "became the Life-Giving Spirit" by passing through human death and resurrection Himself (1st Cor.15:45). The raising of the dead is a harvest. At death, whatever the state of the body was, that will be the seed for a later harvest. Jesus Christ, because of His RANK among men, is regarded by God as the "first from the dead" (Col.1:18). He is also the "firstfruit from the dead" (1st cor.15:20). The remainder of men take their place in the harvest of resurrection BASED ON THE PREEMINENT ONE, JESUS CHRIST. This divides the harvest into three gatherings, just as Leviticus 23 shows. They are

The harvest of the first-ripe, or "firstfruits" and "first" in RANK - Jesus Christ
The harvest of those who had a connection to Christ when they died (or when they were planted)
The harvest of those who were UNLIKE Christ at their planting (at their death)

Without going into detail, a study of the Bible will show that from Adam to Christ's death was almost exactly 4,000 years. Then, the prophets of old predicts that the time of Israel's chastisement would be 2,000 years, and their recovery would coincide with the RETURN of their King Jesus. And then, the prophets of the New Testament predict a 1,000 year Sabbath in which this one Jesus Christ, King of Israel and King of the earth, will use 1,000 years to show God's type of rule on earth and God's ability to restore things by subduing His enemies. Because Israel were initially the recipients of this coming Kingdom, but refused it, Jesus must turn to a new source of kings and priest. He thus retires to His Father's throne and begins a work of raising up a New People for this job of ruling and subduing. The resurrection of men is based on what God NEEDS.

For the raising up of a New Man to rule and Subdue, God needed Jesus Christ as Master builder. So He is resurrected FIRST
For the introduction of His Kingdom on earth, God needs co-kings for local rule of the earth. So He resurrects The Church. This is then 2,000 years later than Christ's resurrection.
For Jesus Christ, Who is now on earth and managing His Kingdom from there, He needs a place to live and call His Headquarters. Since He is also King of Israel and Owner of Israel by inheritance, He needs Israel resurrected. This resurrection is almost simultaneous with that of the Church.
Jesus Christ does not need the "rest of the dead" for any special purpose. But He needs to subdue death. Death is a blight on the creation of the God of Life. So it is removed when all other enemies of God have been subdued. All the "rest of the dead" are raised after the first 1,000 years of Christ's everlasting Kingdom

2. In Genesis 1:11-12 God sets forth a Law that is immutable. It requires that everything with its seed in itself will reproduce the same KIND. It is this Law that makes our Lord Jesus BOTH 100% Man (having been the seed of the woman), and 100% God (having been the produce of the Holy Spirit). This Law is observable in nature and though man has attempted to tamper with it, his success is nil, although he like to brag about some success. This Law applies to the death of men and their resurrection. God regards the death of a man as his "planting" (1st Cor.15:35-38). And that which is planted MUST reproduce its KIND.

If a man has been born again from above in his lifetime, his BODY is made a Temple to God (1st Cor.6:19). Due to Christ's Work, and the following "sign" of Baptism, a man who believes in Jesus Christ is made fit to be a TEMPLE But because this body is headed for death, it is unfit for the coming KINGDOM (1st Cor.15:50). If this body dies, the Temple is "put off" (2nd Cor.5:1-5) and the soul of the dead man is locked away in Hades. So resurrection profits God TWICE

The death of the believer ends the old and unfit body AND releases what was in the "seed"
The resurrection defeats Hades (the place of the souls of dead men), and it bestows what was in the "seed"

So 1st Corinthians 15 says that those who had a rebirth from heaven (Jn.3:3-5) will come forth from the grave with "CELESTIAL" (or heavenly) GLORY. Their new body is not constructed in the womb, but heaven (2nd Cor.5:1-5). Those who did not experience the rebirth will possess a "TERRESTRIAL" (or earthly) glory. But there is more to it.

In the rebirth eternal life, or the "divine nature" is imparted to the believer. This LIFE, or NATURE does two things.

It sustains a man forever (Gen.3:22). It does not replace nor suppress the human life, but it causes IMMORTALITY
It enables a mere man to be in the image and likeness of Christ

And THUS is the eternal purpose of God with man achieved (Gen.1:26-29, Rom.8:29, Eph.3:9-12)

Those who do not, in their lifetime, believe do not possess the divine nature and must be "sustained". But they too have a huge advantage. In Romans 6:23 the word used is "sin" -SINGULAR. It is used throughout Romans to depict the fallen nature of Adam. It is the cause of human death (Romans 5). So when a man dies his "wages" have been paid. Now, it is not often explained to Bible students that the Lamb of Egypt was not only for Israel. It was for the firstborn of the land. If the Egyptians had believed Moses and slaughtered the same 1 year old Lamb in obedience to God, their firstborn would have been saved. the angel of death did not look for Egyptians. He looked for the FIRSTBORN of ALL in the Land including cattle etc. The Lamb of God is not to put SINS (plural) away. It is to deal with the intrinsic nature of man - SIN (singular). So when John announces Jesus he says; "behold the Lamb of God (not Israel), Who takes way the SIN (singular) of the WORLD"!

Jesus Christ judicially put SIN (singular) away, and not only for Israel or the Church, but EVERY MAN (and the "world" - which effects are not now the subject). That is, the man died because of SIN and so receives the wages of his nature AND Jesus pays judicially for this SIN-nature for every man so God CANNOT EXACT THE PENALTY TWICE. This insures that although the unbeliever does not possess eternal life, and is MORTAL, HE CANNOT DIE AGAIN on JUDICIAL BASIS. It becomes then God's duty, as a just God, to keep the MORTAL alive. So after the resurrection and judgment at the White Throne, the unbelieving Nations are "healed by the LEAVES of the Tree of Life" (Rev.22.2). The FRUIT is for the Christian - the Believer, the LEAVES (Christ's Works) are to keep MORTAL men in pristine condition.

But ... this glorious work and display of God's wisdom and power does not stop the threat of judgement. I will just set forth the facts of judgment and we can discuss them further is so desired. If one studies the various judgments, and there are FIVE of them, one is struck by two salient points.

ALL Judgment is FOR WORKS
ALL Judgment is applied to LIVING MEN

Consider this;

Our Lord Jesus must present Himself and His Works to God the Father. Judgment follows and He is fully accepted, justified and give the highest name and position in the universe. But He presented Himself AFTER resurrection (Jn.20.17, Heb.9)
We are resurrected and then raptured to the clouds to give an account of ourselves (Rom.14.10, 2nd Cor.5:10). It is then decided whether we (i) ar named co-kings with Christ in His Kingdom, (ii) let into the Wedding Feast, OR (iii) must be shut out of the kingdom and chastised (1st Cor.3, Gal 5:21, Ephe.5:5)
Israel are resurrected and returned to their Land. They are judged by Law (Rom.2:12)
The LIVING of the "ALL Nations" are judged after the Great Tribulation based on what they DID to the "least of Christ's brethren"
The rest of the dead are first resurrected, then face judgment at the White Throne. the books of THEIR WORKS are the basis

Resurrection is guaranteed for ALL men. Resurrection produces a Body in accordance with a man's state at death. Resurrection is a display of God's glory and power. After resurrection comes judgment - a display of God's justice.

DeighAnn · May 4, 2022

On 5/1/2022 at 6:21 AM, AdHoc said:

The raising of the dead is a harvest. At death, whatever the state of the body was, that will be the seed for a later harvest. Jesus Christ, because of His RANK among men, is regarded by God as the "first from the dead" (Col.1:18). He is also the "firstfruit from the dead" (1st cor.15:20). The remainder of men take their place in the harvest of resurrection BASED ON THE PREEMINENT ONE, JESUS CHRIST. This divides the harvest into three gatherings, just as Leviticus 23 shows. They are

The harvest of the first-ripe, or "firstfruits" and "first" in RANK - Jesus Christ

The harvest of those who had a connection to Christ when they died (or when they were planted)

The harvest of those who were UNLIKE Christ at their planting (at their death)

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on Him that sent Me,
HATH everlasting life,
and shall not come into condemnation;
but is passed from death unto life.

I have even had some try and tell me "THAT IS JUST 'SPIRITUAL' and the 'being saved' being spoken of is of the SOUL/spirit but not the BODY, but

BUT THE SUBJECT BEING DISCUSSED IS EVER SO VERY SUPER SPECIFIC

John 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom He will.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you,
He that heareth My word, and believeth on Him that sent Me,
hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself;

John 5:27 And hath given Him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with Me in paradise.

Isn't it weird how all Scripture 'disappears' for this explanation? Notice how EVERYONE who speaks of this never uses Gods words but always uses 'mans' to explain it? It simply ISN'T written, is it JUST conjecture.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

What Scriptures are you using to change 'PASSING THROUGH DEATH' into 'the harvest of 3 gatherings'?

I can find it nowhere written anyhow that resurrection follows a 3 phase harvest. The only HARVEST I have seen written as pertaining to the end times is

Matthew 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

Matthew 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

Matthew 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

Matthew 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

Matthew 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

Matthew 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Could you explain what happened to the 'them that slept' part of the verse?

1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Haven't those who have been 'born again' DIED and risen ALREADY? Isn't that the 'planting' that gives us eternal life? Or are we made ALIVE just to be 'planted' again amongst THE DEAD? How does that fit in with receiving ETERNAL LIFE?

What does this mean to you? 1Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him?

Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Romans 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

Romans 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

Romans 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Is it possible to be FREE FROM SIN and be in bondage to death? Can someone who have been GIVEN ETERNAL life be DEAD?

Did Christ defeat death or not?

2Timothy 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

2Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

2Timothy 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

What happened at the death and resurrection of CHRIST? DID the graves open and did He lead the captivity captive or not? How does that figure into the '3 phase' thing?

Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Hebrews 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to Me a people:

DO we or do we not receive EVERLASTING LIFE NOW? Or are we only receiving a PROMISE OF EVERLASTING LIFE THAT BEGINS AFTER WE REMAIN IN DEATH FOR A WHILE?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

1Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

1Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

1Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also NOW save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1Peter 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto Him.

1Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

1Peter 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are NOW returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

DeighAnn · May 4, 2022

On 5/1/2022 at 6:21 AM, AdHoc said:

Resurrection pertains only to point #1. Resurrection is God's solution to physical death. And since death is foreign to, and an enemy of, God, it will be subdued and defeated.

It ALREADY HAS been defeated

On 5/1/2022 at 6:21 AM, AdHoc said:

Thus, 1st Corinthians 15:22 says that just as all men are headed for death because they had their origin IN Adam, all men are headed for resurrection because Christ has subdued death and a new creation has its origin IN Him. With resurrection a fact of the Bible, the only questions remaining are:

We all die in ADAM. Have been EVER SINCE THAT SIN. SO,

why would SIN KEEP REIGNING on and on and on and on and on WHEN CHRIST ALREADY PAID THE PRICE?

Sin CERTAINLY isn't more 'powerful' than forgiveness.

DEATH doesn't GET TO REIGN over those having had their sins FORGIVEN and been washed clean in the BLOOD of the Lamb Slain.

NO SIN = NO DEATH

On 5/1/2022 at 6:21 AM, AdHoc said:

1. The raising of the dead is given to Jesus Christ Who "became the Life-Giving Spirit" by passing through human death and resurrection Himself (1st Cor.15:45)

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

GREEK So also it has been written: Became the first man Adam into a soul living, the last Adam into a spirit life-giving

DO YOU SEE THE PROBLEM YOU ARE CREATING BY ADDING THIS THOUGHT AS YOU HAVE HERE?

IF as you STATE it was by 'PASSING THROUGH HUMAN DEATH TO RESURRECTION HIMSELF',

then it would ALSO STAND

THAT BY 'PASSING THROUGH SIN' WOULD BE HOW THE FIRST ADAM BECAME A LIVING SOUL.

THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WHY WE ARE NOT TO 'MESS' WITH WHAT IS WRITTEN. This, is like when EVE added 'neither shall ye touch it'.

On 5/1/2022 at 6:21 AM, AdHoc said:

Physical death, or the death of the body in which the animation of the body ceases and the body itself does not renew itself and rots back to the elements it came from. According to Romans Chapter 5 the cause of the is death is Adam's transgression which is passed on by the male to his offspring. Thus, every one is headed for death, and a 1 day old baby can die without ever having had a coherent thought

PHYSICAL DEATH OF THE FIRST BODY. OF THE NATURAL BODY. OF THE EARTHEN VESSEL. NOT THE SOUL/SPIRIT.

But GOD in all His wisdom GAVE US two bodies. FOR those who are SINLESS, they RISE in their spiritual body. PASS THROUGH DEATH = drop off earthen 'DEAD AS IN ADAM'S SIN' BODY AND rise up in the heavenly (unless you are not saved, then you don't go to heaven or the right side, because you are DEAD)

Yes, that babies 'flesh' dies and that 'angel' goes back to GOD.

On 5/1/2022 at 6:21 AM, AdHoc said:

The Second Death. In Matthew 10:28 God warned people that a much more fearsome death awaited the wicked. It was a STATE where a LIVING man would experience exquisite lack of well-being in body and soul. An example would be a man who is in the middle of an ugly divorce, while his business is failing, while his beloved child is killed, while his friends reject and mock him and while he himself has a terrible debilitating cancer of the face, spreading to all his organs. This "perdition", as it is called by scripture, is God's retribution for evil works

THE SECOND DEATH IS IN THE LAKE OF FIRE of BOTH BODY AND SOUL.

As for the rest it sounds more like

Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

Job 1:13 And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:

Job 1:14 And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them:

Job 1:15 And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

Job 1:16 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

WHAT do you think GOD is telling us here?

Jeremiah 23:32 Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD.

Jeremiah 23:33 And when this people, or the prophet, or a priest, shall ask thee, saying, What is the burden of the LORD? thou shalt then say unto them, What burden? I will even forsake you, saith the LORD.

Jeremiah 23:34 And as for the prophet, and the priest, and the people, that shall say, The burden of the LORD, I will even punish that man and his house.

Jeremiah 23:35 Thus shall ye say every one to his neighbour, and every one to his brother, What hath the LORD answered? and, What hath the LORD spoken?

Jeremiah 23:36 And the burden of the LORD shall ye mention no more: for every man's word shall be his burden; for ye have perverted the words of the living God, of the LORD of hosts our God.

Jeremiah 23:37 Thus shalt thou say to the prophet, What hath the LORD answered thee? and, What hath the LORD spoken?

Jeremiah 23:38 But since ye say, The burden of the LORD; therefore thus saith the LORD; Because ye say this word, The burden of the LORD, and I have sent unto you, saying, Ye shall not say, The burden of the LORD;

Jeremiah 23:39 Therefore, behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you, and I will forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and cast you out of my presence:

Jeremiah 23:40 And I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame, which shall not be forgotten.

GODS WRATH COMES LATER. Death and then judgment.

On 5/1/2022 at 6:21 AM, AdHoc said:

Without going into detail, a study of the Bible will show that from Adam to Christ's death was almost exactly 4,000 years. Then, the prophets of old predicts that the time of Israel's chastisement would be 2,000 years, and their recovery would coincide with the RETURN of their King Jesus.

THE CHURCH WAS ESTABLISHED BY THE LORD JESUS CHRIST to GATHER THE SCATTERED SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL. NOT one would be lost for the next 2000 years. OH, and I almost forgot, the gentiles invited 'into the fold' to 'become a seed of Abraham', Christians also, so they to could inherit the promises. Some people think because JUDAH was blinded ALL the tribes were, but JUDAH wasn't the scattered sheep of the House of Israel, they were the House brought back to their own land to rebuild the temple.

On 5/1/2022 at 6:21 AM, AdHoc said:

Because Israel were initially the recipients of this coming Kingdom, but refused it, Jesus must turn to a new source of kings and priest. He thus retires to His Father's throne and begins a work of raising up a New People for this job of ruling and subduing. The resurrection of men is based on what God NEEDS.

Pre trib rapture voids out more of the words of God.

The House of Israel HAD BEEN SCATTERED FOR 500 PLUS YEARS BEFORE CHRIST WALKED the earth. THE SCATTERED SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL is who Christ says HE LOSES ONLY ONE OF. He started the 'church' to GATHER THEM.

GOD doesn't NEED anything but He wants our love. The resurrection of men is based on SALVATION.

DeighAnn · May 4, 2022

On 5/1/2022 at 6:21 AM, AdHoc said:

For the raising up of a New Man to rule and Subdue, God needed Jesus Christ as Master builder. So He is resurrected FIRST

For the introduction of His Kingdom on earth, God needs co-kings for local rule of the earth. So He resurrects The Church. This is then 2,000 years later than Christ's resurrection.

For Jesus Christ, Who is now on earth and managing His Kingdom from there, He needs a place to live and call His Headquarters. Since He is also King of Israel and Owner of Israel by inheritance, He needs Israel resurrected. This resurrection is almost simultaneous with that of the Church.

Jesus Christ does not need the "rest of the dead" for any special purpose. But He needs to subdue death. Death is a blight on the creation of the God of Life. So it is removed when all other enemies of God have been subdued. All the "rest of the dead" are raised after the first 1,000 years of Christ's everlasting Kingdom

I have no idea what ANY OF THIS means.

BUT CHRIST is the HIGHEST RANKING not the FIRST as God showed Moses in the BUSH, and also at the mount of transfiguration.

The CHURCH is 'HE' who overcomes and endures to the end along with the souls under the altar and those who have gone to sleep and return with Christ the 10,000s saints and angels returning WITH HIM in the armies that will sit upon thrones for the DAY.

THE DEAD who rise are those who we will be RULING and reigning OVER with Christ.

DeighAnn · May 4, 2022

On 5/1/2022 at 6:21 AM, AdHoc said:

So 1st Corinthians 15 says that those who had a rebirth from heaven (Jn.3:3-5) will come forth from the grave with "CELESTIAL" (or heavenly) GLORY. Their new body is not constructed in the womb, but heaven (2nd Cor.5:1-5). Those who did not experience the rebirth will possess a "TERRESTRIAL" (or earthly) glory. But there is more to it.

The earthen vessel goes back to DUST while the HEAVENLY KINGDOM IS COMING TO EARTH.

It CAN'T resurrect, EVER. NO FLESH AND BLOOD IN THE HEAVENLY KINGDOM.

IF it does, PLEASE, show me ONE verse that makes such a statement.

On 5/1/2022 at 6:21 AM, AdHoc said:

But because this body is headed for death, it is unfit for the coming KINGDOM (1st Cor.15:50). If this body dies, the Temple is "put off" (2nd Cor.5:1-5) and the soul of the dead man is locked away in Hades. So resurrection profits God TWICE

PLEASE POINT OUT THE 'PUT OFF'

2Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2Corinthians 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

2Corinthians 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

2Corinthians 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

2Corinthians 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

AdHoc · May 10, 2022

@DeighAnn

Please excuse my delayed response. I was away for 10 days. You posted four comprehensive answers, or better said, challenges. For this effort I thank you. Instead or going point by point, which would generate a book, may I add explanation. The first point is admit that we see things in a very different light. Your premise is that death is already defeated and that the believer has somehow left his earthly, or "natural" body and has been resurrected already. For this you alluded to, but did not comment on, Ephesians 4:8.

1. Now, we both have a good command of English, and the verse is not obscure in the Greek. So we will both agree that this verse does not say that dead men leave their bones in a grave and proceed to heaven in a new and spiritual body. This verse says that a certain "Captivity" was led "captive". That is, in plain English, there was a "Captivity". And this cativity is still a Captivity, but the CAPTOR has changed. If you were in jail for drug smuggling in Panama, an independent country under President Noriega, and President Reagan invaded and conquered Panama - as he did, you, would still be in jail, but under Reagan's puppet president (autocratically INSTALLED) President Endara. That is what Ephesians 4:8 declares. The Captivity remains but the CAPTOR changes.

2. If our Lord Jesus is to have preeminence in ALL things, especially the raising of the dead (Col.1:18), and He is the ONLY man to be raised in His wounded body, and all other men followed some other procedure, our Lord could not be preeminent. Preeminent means that He is the first and greatest of ALL WHO GO HIS WAY AND DO WHAT HE DID. So if our Lord Jesus did not gather a spiritual body and ascend to heaven, but took His marred body up from the Tomb, showed it to Mary, and said "don't touch it" - but later that evening appears to His disciples and says "handle it" then your theory is incorrect. 1st Corinthians 15:23 says that the dead "who are Christ's" will RISE "when He comes" - NOT when they die! 1st Thessalonians 4:13-17 says the saints RISE at the COMING of the Lord. Matthew 25 says that the dead Virgins RISE when the Groom COMES. Acts 2:27-34 says that while Jesus has RISEN and gone to heaven, (i) David's grave is still there in Jerusalem, and (ii) David is still in HADES and NOT YET ASCENDED. Your theory cannot be correct.

3. 1st Corinthians 15:21-28 reads

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

v.21 shows Adam's death and the Man Who would reverse it - NOT by swapping bodies, but by drawing out of the dust the bodies of dead men

v.22 shows that it is not the gaining of a second body, but dead bodies "made alive"

v.23 show and order of dead men being made alive. Christ first, and then some AT HIS COMING - NOT at their death

vs.24 implies that Christ must have a Kingdom, IN THE WHICH things are in a state of rebellion, and IN THE WHICH He will put things right. This must include Magog's rebellion. But that is 1,000 years after Christ COMES. Magog exercises POWER to raise an army and he exercises AUTHORITY to command it against Jerusalem (Ezek.38-39, Rev.20).

v.25 says that Jesus must REIGN in the sphere where these rebellions are carried out, and SUBDUE them - the earth. The battle of God in heaven versus Magog at HammonGog, will produce massive DEATH quotas. That is, right up until 1,000 years after Jesus returns, and 3,000 years after Jesus is raised, DEATH HAS POWER OVER MEN. And what is more, unless Jesus returns in the next foreseeable future YOU and I WILL BE OVER COME BY DEATH. Jesus defeated death - YES! But He implemented that victory only on Himself and a few select others. Even after you and I are resurrected - ONLY when "he comes", there is the "rest of the dead". "Dead" means DEAD! And DEAD means that DEATH has still POWER. Our Lord Jesus defeats death at HIS resurrection, but "those in the grave" must wait up to 3,000 years for death to lose its POWER.

v.26 does nor says that Satan is the LAST enemy. He is on earth raising up an army 1,000 years after Jesus has COME. There is another enemy still exercising POWER - Magog. And when BOTH Satan and Magog are defeated there is still another ENEMY EXERCISING POWER - DEATH. This enemy is only over come when -- don't hold your breath - HADES gives up HER DEAD. No talk of spiritual bodies. No talk of "pearly gates" and streets of gold. HADES! The place of the SOULS of dead men CAPTIVE until Jesus - Holder of the KEYS TO HADES - inserts and turns the KEYS (Rev.1:18)!

This above passage is plain and needs no INTERPRETATION. Its content is not disputed. Its language is not obscure. Your belief of dying and beating death at your death is incorrect. And your whole argument in FOUR postings above was based on this incorrect supposition. And finally, try not to use the scriptures that say that in death you will be with the Lord. The relationship you have now is Body, Soul AND Spirit ON EARTH. And if John 14 is correct, then Christ has come to be with us, the Father has made His abode with us, the Comforter is IN us. We are with Christ in the Person of the Holy Spirit NOW. When you die, your Body is NOT with Him for it resides ON EARTH void of spirit (Jas.2:26). Your spirit returns to God. But your SOUL is in Hades. AND LO! Who is in HADES - Jesus!

7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? 8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in SHEOL (Hades), behold, thou art there. 9 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; 10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.

And that should answer your last possible objection. The Lord said to the thief on the cross next to Him: "TODAY" - that same day which ended at sundown, the thief's legs were broken to cause death by shock. Where did Jesus go FIRST??? He DESCENDED FIRST - and stayed there three days. And who was WITH HIM by authority of Psalm 139:8 above? Why - Jesus. Jesus was IN HADES (see Acts 2:27-34).

If you read my first posting IN THE LIGHT OF THIS, you will know what I am saying. If you read it with spectacles tinted with Roman Catholic Mythology you will have unending problems.

DeighAnn · May 10, 2022

2 hours ago, AdHoc said:

1. Now, we both have a good command of English, and the verse is not obscure in the Greek. So we will both agree that this verse does not say that dead men leave their bones in a grave and proceed to heaven in a new and spiritual body. This verse says that a certain "Captivity" was led "captive". That is, in plain English, there was a "Captivity". And this cativity is still a Captivity, but the CAPTOR has changed. If you were in jail for drug smuggling in Panama, an independent country under President Noriega, and President Reagan invaded and conquered Panama - as he did, you, would still be in jail, but under Reagan's puppet president (autocratically INSTALLED) President Endara. That is what Ephesians 4:8 declares. The Captivity remains but the CAPTOR changes.

So the graves opened, SOME of the dead were seen and they went back DOWN having been 'saved'? That makes no sense to me.

Ephesians 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

Ephesians 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Ephesians 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

WHEN HE ASCENDED....HE LED, but are you instead proposing THE Captivity remained captive WHERE THEY WERE, but THEIR CAPTOR changed? Wouldn't that make the place He went FOR those who would follow after to be with Him where He was not heaven, but hell?

Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Luke 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

Luke 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

AND I agree, what you are saying would be truth, IF, that was ALL that was written on the subject. But there are so many verses, AKA 'A little here and a little there...' in which HIS TRUTHS are brought to light that when combined together, THE SPIRIT of those WORDS OF GOD, (and not the very 'letter' of them each independently) is what is being spoken. THAT is why we must be careful, or else that kind of conclusion would be made and then 'a doctrine' given to try and back it up as truth. So we can't disregard all we are told in relation to this specific subject,

things like

1736. endémeó ►
Strong's Concordance
endémeó: to be in one's own country, to be at home
Original Word: ἐνδημέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: endémeó
Phonetic Spelling: (en-day-meh'-o)
Definition: to be in one's own country, to be at home
Usage: I am at home, live in a place.

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 Corinthians 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

2 Corinthians 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

2 Corinthians 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

2 Corinthians 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Romans 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

2Corinthians 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

2Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

2Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

2Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

2Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

2Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

2Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

2Corinthians 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

2Corinthians 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

2Corinthians 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

WHAT MAKES Christians DIFFERENT in that they don't become a part of 'the DEAD' waiting for Christs return to FINALLY be resurrected

THEY have ALREADY DIED and RISEN with Christ. There is no need for them to die and wait ALONG WITH THE UNSAVED in the dust of the earth. Christians will leave 'this body' behind when it 'gives up the spirit', just like CHRIST did, and will rise from the dead, as Christ did. WHEN Christ gave up the ghost, Everything changed for those who are 'saved' through His work.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

1 Peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

1 Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

1 Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

1 Peter 1:21 Who by Him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

WHEN is our 'spiritual body' our INNER MAN quickened? When are we no longer 'spiritually dead'? When is the BELIEVERS flesh body put to DEATH? When is the 'mortal' body quickened? It is WHEN we come to faith and are made a NEW CREATURE. Just because we don't go to heaven at that point doesn't mean we don't go as soon as the work is done here.

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; thatthey may be one, even as we are one:

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with Me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

ONCE He is risen, the next 2000 years will be spent in heaven, so that is where He is praying for them to be. Not where He will be returning to for the 2nd Advent, not 'in the earth' for all that time waiting. If that is what He was asking it couldn't have been written like it is, as this is the only way for it to be written to 'be where He is'

John 13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.

John 13:1 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that hishour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth Me no more; but ye see Me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1 Corinthians 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

1 Corinthians 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

Wouldn't a 'future' tense be 'will be raised' and present tense 'is raised', we having 'a good command of English'? Because the Greek

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1 Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Once we read this

1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body,

can we EVER AGAIN TEACH 'without' a body AGAIN? I personally never will.

John 8:48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?

John 8:49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.

John 8:50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.

John 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

John 8:52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

DeighAnn · May 10, 2022

4 hours ago, AdHoc said:

2. If our Lord Jesus is to have preeminence in ALL things, especially the raising of the dead (Col.1:18), and He is the ONLY man to be raised in His wounded body, and all other men followed some other procedure, our Lord could not be preeminent. Preeminent means that He is the first and greatest of ALL WHO GO HIS WAY AND DO WHAT HE DID. So if our Lord Jesus did not gather a spiritual body and ascend to heaven, but took His marred body up from the Tomb, showed it to Mary, and said "don't touch it" - but later that evening appears to His disciples and says "handle it" then your theory is incorrect. 1st Corinthians 15:23 says that the dead "who are Christ's" will RISE "when He comes" - NOT when they die! 1st Thessalonians 4:13-17 says the saints RISE at the COMING of the Lord. Matthew 25 says that the dead Virgins RISE when the Groom COMES. Acts 2:27-34 says that while Jesus has RISEN and gone to heaven, (i) David's grave is still there in Jerusalem, and (ii) David is still in HADES and NOT YET ASCENDED. Your theory cannot be correct.

I believe it is of RANK, not of time. NO one will EVER hold a higher RANK than He does. He is a 7 STAR General and the closest in rank to Him is a 5 star.

WHAT CHRIST DID we do not do. Christ died under the law, WE DON'T. He changed what happens to us but His death and resurrection are PART OT AND PART NT and NO ONE but Him will ever be or do that.

You don't think we ascend and then 'come back for 40 days' then ascend again do you? So why would you believe the rest would be just like HIS?

I am finding THIS to be just like 1 Thess 4 where everyone starts a couple verses AFTER 13 so they can make a point but it never helps find truth. JUST LIKE HERE CAN'T START AT 23 if indeed GODS TRUTH is what we are after.

1Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

Under the law they were STUCK in the dust of the earth because they were ??? IN SIN. But the BLOOD of the Lamb Slain washed them clean so that DEATH no longer HAD ANY CLAIM TO THEM. NO SIN=???? NO SIN=NO DEATH.

1Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

What is the first thing Christ did? Went to preach to the captivies and set them free from the law of sin and death and they ROSE under GRACE and the blood of the Lamb.

1 Corinthians 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

BUT every man is RAISED up in the RANK they have labored for. TO EVERY SEED A BODY and a BODY as GOD HAS SEEN FIT. Only one thing we take with us and that is OUR WORKS.

Only those of the FIRST RESURRECTION, the 'first fruits' RISE to go be where He is and THEY will be returning with HIM when He returns for the day of vengeance.

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Revelation 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

1Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

1Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

1Corinthians 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

1Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

1Corinthians 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

1Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

DeighAnn · May 10, 2022

5 hours ago, AdHoc said:

v.21 shows Adam's death and the Man Who would reverse it - NOT by swapping bodies, but by drawing out of the dust the bodies of dead men

1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

To bad He didn't write 'thou sowest not the DUST that shall be' but dust we came from.

John 6:61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?

John 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

5 hours ago, AdHoc said:

v.25 says that Jesus must REIGN in the sphere where these rebellions are carried out, and SUBDUE them - the earth. The battle of God in heaven versus Magog at HammonGog, will produce massive DEATH quotas. That is, right up until 1,000 years after Jesus returns, and 3,000 years after Jesus is raised, DEATH HAS POWER OVER MEN. And what is more, unless Jesus returns in the next foreseeable future YOU and I WILL BE OVER COME BY DEATH. Jesus defeated death - YES! But He implemented that victory only on Himself and a few select others. Even after you and I are resurrected - ONLY when "he comes", there is the "rest of the dead". "Dead" means DEAD! And DEAD means that DEATH has still POWER. Our Lord Jesus defeats death at HIS resurrection, but "those in the grave" must wait up to 3,000 years for death to lose its POWER.

1Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

ONCE ALL have been CHANGED, how many does that leave left to be changed?

EX - if ALL was equal to 100, and 100 were changed,

That would leave ZERO left to be changed.

WHICH would really help everyone understand

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul:

(that would be the FIRST DEATH)

but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

(this would be the SECOND DEATH)

Now, this is just logic on my part but when Christ returns THE WHOLE WORLD will have worshipped after the beast, except a remnant. Since those who 'take the mark of the beast die' and the 'alive and remaining' are changed,

THAT LEAVES NO FLESH/earthen BODIES to EVER WALK THE EARTH AGAIN.

THE only way AROUND THAT is to say 'the nations' don't die, but THAT would be rendering the words of GOD null and void.

Will 'man' have any power over 'man' when the Lord is ruling with a rod of iron? I don't think so.

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Different peoples, Different covenants, Different deaths, will NEVER fit into an 'either/or' explanation

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