Resurrection of the Just and the Unjust Happens At The Second Coming

[Serving]

9 hours ago, transmogrified said:

Do you believe this scripture?

"For in him (Christ) dwells all the fulness of the Godhead Bodily? 

I believe all scripture.

What we have here is a clash of perspectives.

You're really focused on that scripture aren't you?

Okay, okay, okay, Lol .. 

Here is my reading of it :

In Christ's body dwells the fullness of His Fathers Attributes, His Fathers nature .. found in the body of the one called the Word of God.

The Father who is the actual Godhead, well His Spirit dwells within the Word of God without measure .. hence "fullness" of the "Godhead" (of the Fathers Spirit) being in that body called the Word of God, thus signifying Messiahs Authority, office and origin. 

That is my reading of it.

In my opinion, that scripture adds no direct bearing to the discussion regarding the nature of Christs pre human/post resurrected body to be honest. We don't need to focus on it as though it is something more than what it actually is.  We are going deeper than that.

You do understand the mystery that is the Word of God right?

What is the meaning behind the mystery of the Word of God in your estimation?

The mystery .. what is the mystery?

[transmogrified]

1 hour ago, Serving said:

In Christ's body dwells the fullness of His Fathers Attributes, His Fathers nature .. found in the body of the one called the Word of God.

In saying 'the fullness of his Fathers' attributes, his Father's nature' are in the body of Jesus, are you saying God dwells  in the body of Jesus? 

 

 

[Serving]

54 minutes ago, transmogrified said:

In saying 'the fullness of his Fathers' attributes, his Father's nature' are in the body of Jesus, are you saying God dwells  in the body of Jesus? 

 

 

John 14:10 

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

That is part of the mystery of the Word of God.

I get the feeling from your question that you're not 100% sure what the mystery of the Word of God is .. are you?

The concept behind it at least?

You probably are, but I'm just asking.

[Serving]

1 hour ago, transmogrified said:

In saying 'the fullness of his Fathers' attributes, his Father's nature' are in the body of Jesus, are you saying God dwells  in the body of Jesus? 

 

 

Look at it this way ..

2 hours ago, Serving said:

"For in him (Christ) dwells all the fulness of the Godhead Bodily" 

For in him (Transmogrified) dwells all the fullness of Transmogrified bodily.

See that?

Doesn't make sense right?

So yes, it is saying something other than it appears.

[transmogrified]

35 minutes ago, Serving said:

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Yes, the scripture you gave above shows that the Father (who is God) dwells in Jesus. Seeing that God is a spirit it could be translated:

'I am in God and God is in me...I speak not of myself, but the God that dwells in me he doeth the works.'

By saying the Father dwells in him he was saying God was in him...this is the same thing Paul said...'God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself...'

When Jesus said 'the Father who dwells in me,' he meant the Father was inside of his body...it dwelt in him, just like when we receive the spirit of God he comes and dwells inside of us...in our body...he takes up his abode in us.

This is what Jesus said before the Holy Spirit was given...he said 'I am WITH you, but I shall be IN you.' This of course is the mystery, 'Christ IN you the hope of glory....' When he said 'I will not leave you comfortless, I will come to you...' He was meaning HE was the one who would take up his abode within his disciples...Paul said 'Know ye not that ye are the temple of God and that God dwells IN you? By the same token he said 'Know ye not that Jesus Christ is in you except ye be reprobates? 

Does Jesus Christ dwell within  you? Of course he does. Your human spirit also dwells inside of you...when your spirit departs from your body you are dead...it cannot depart FROM your body if it is not IN your body..

Was the body Jesus appeared to his disciples after his resurrection

 a mortal body or an immortal body?  

18 minutes ago, Serving said:

For in him (Transmogrified) dwells all the fullness of Transmogrified bodily.

See that?

Doesn't make sense right?

So yes, it is saying something other than it appears.

Jesus clarified it when he said 'A spirit has not flesh and bones as ye see me have...' A spirit is invisible...but the body he was in was visible....this was an immortal body...

When this God / Man comes at the Second Coming, it says every eye will see him...even those who pierced him...all the kindreds of the world will see him coming in the clouds...what will they see? 

They will see the same God / Man who ascended up from the Mt. of Olives...this same Jesus will return...he was in the same immortal body when he appeared to his disciples as he will be when he returns...people saw him ascend up...the body he was in was in was immortal...the people saw the two witnesses when they were resurrected after laying in the street for 3. 5 days...when they were resurrected it says 'they arose and stood upon their feet...' They were now in their glorified, immortal bodies and ascended up to heaven while people beheld them.

This event took place at the second coming..it says when he shall appear we will be like him...this is what happened to the two witnesses...they became like him...in other words they received an immortal body just like Jesus received an immortal body at his resurrection...it was seen, it could be touched, the disciples handled him, people held him by the feet ...He was in a body, but it was not a mortal body, it was an immortal body...but it was still a body.

Was God inside the body of Jesus when he appeared to his disciples?

And was the body he appreared to his disciples in a mortal body or an immortal body? 

1 hour ago, Serving said:

That is part of the mystery of the Word of God.

Please refer me to the scripture you are talking about.

Gary

 

[DeighAnn]

On 6/27/2022 at 3:15 PM, iamlamad said:

Another aspect of this example is jumping ahead of John and the Holy Spirit 2000 where when there is not one hint in the text to do so. For example, SO MANY today read of the first seal and imagine it is to represent the Antichrist. No, IN CONTEXT that seal was opened as soon as Jesus ascended as is clearly seen in chapter 5.

I agree, and I believe the seals were loosed from the book to give knowledge to the church of what would commence on earth until the return of Christ.  

Up until the time Jesus was crucified, Satans purpose was to PREVENT the coming of Jesus.  The reasons all the lands God promised to 'the seed' were found to be 'settled' by all the 'ites'.  Why every 'man woman and child' was supposed to be killed as they were 'sent or brought there for the purpose of destroying the seedline. God knowing what would be required to keep  bloodline pure until the birth of Jesus.  The angels left their habitations specifically to 'pollute' the bloodline,  only Moses was found with a perfect 'generation' (didn't mix with the strange flesh).  

Once Christ was RAISED from the dead and HIS BLOOD confirmed the New Covenant, IT CHANGED everything.   Those who would receive the gift of salvation, now under GRACE, would be SAVED FROM DEATH, and those who had been 'under the law' would be FREED FROM DEATH,  because the infinite value of the blood of the Lamb slain was able to wash those who SLEPT clean upon hearing the gospel and repentance, all the souls Satan had been holding as prisoners in Hades having gone there instead of to heaven, because of having been found with 'sin' 'under the law' (those Christ freed),  and made it possible that NEVER again would Hades 'be receiving' any of Gods SAVED/under Grace/Gift of Salvation souls,  as they now could pass through death (sow the natural, raise up the spiritual) and go straight to heaven to be with the Lord where He was.   

Praise ye the Lord!!! 
Again, I agree,  THAT FIRST SEAL opened telling of the releasing of Satans evil spirit to go out unto the whole world, to go about overcoming it with all manner of DECEPTION AND LIES.  It wasn't Satan 'in person', but just as the Holy Spirit is given to the children of God, the evil spirit is given to the children of Satan and 
that is the meaning of the FALSE white horse rider who had to be GIVEN a crown (having lost his when iniquity was found in him in the first age) who only has what will be found in the end to be nothing more than a FAKE FABRIC bow (his fiery darts no more than deception, all his promises, lies.  When he is kicked out of heaven and he does arrive on earth, any 'peace and safety' will only be of the imagination as all his signs and wonders are lies).  

THAT seal is first because IT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT piece of information a Christian needs in this world TO BE A SOLDIER OF CHRIST.  When a Christian understands THERE IS A WAR going on and it is a WAR for SOULS, and that most 'murders' come about by deception and lies of Satan, (as the murder of the flesh isn't the problem as WE HAVE TWO BODIES but only the one spirit/soul), THE GOSPEL ARMOR takes on a whole new significance.  Investing in the words of God is the worlds BEST investment for all of eternity.     

So THE RESURRECTION of Jesus and the New Covenant, IS WHY that book wasn't opened BEFORE and why Daniel was SEALED until the end times and why ONLY CHRIST was worthy to loose the seals  FOR WHAT COMES NEXT.  

What OTHER information is the Christian Soldier given?  Life from the time Revelation is given all the way until Christ returns, will not be easy and a spiritual war will be going on.  There isn't going to be much peace.  There is going to be lots of deception.  There is going to be a lot of men killing men. There is going to be lots of lies and theft.  There is going to be famine.  Satan will be seeking to DECEIVE those who LOVE GOD through False doctrines, False preachers and teachers who will take what is written and distort it to teach 'what is meant' by adding to and subtracting from what is written. Men who have the evil spirit dwelling in them will be working to bring about a single government to RULE THE WORLD.  It will be done through what the words of God describe as 'beasts' different kingdoms and  powers such as communication, transportation, Information, using politics, money, RELIGION all under the FALSE WHITE HORSE RIDER.  IMHO anyway.  
 

[iamlamad]

14 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

...
Again, I agree,  THAT FIRST SEAL opened telling of the releasing of Satans evil spirit to go out unto the whole world, to go about overcoming it with all manner of DECEPTION AND LIES. 
 

You were doing so well until you got here.

Please show us all what word or words from this passage gives you even a hint that this is something evil.

6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

I hope you will research every other (16 times) John used the color white and what it was and is to represent. Then explain why God would chose (if indeed He did) to use white once out of 17 times for something evil.

You should also look up the Greek word translated "Conquering" and discover that every other time in the KJV it was translated as "overcome."

Keep in mind, we both agree Jesus opened this seal as soon as He ascended. 

[iamlamad]

21 hours ago, Serving said:

Look at it this way ..

For in him (Transmogrified) dwells all the fullness of Transmogrified bodily.

See that?

Doesn't make sense right?

So yes, it is saying something other than it appears.

It is very natural (even for resurrection bodies) for the spirit and soul of a being to be "inside" the physical body of that being. My spirit is me, my soul is me, and my body is me. But my body is only the "house" my spirit and soul are living in.

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

One reason is because
 Rev 6 THE BEGINNING OF A SERIES OF TERRIBLE JUDGMENTS.  

WHY would The Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ NEED TO BE GIVEN A CROWN?  

Did Jesus go forth OVERCOMEING and to overcome? or is He sitting at the right hand of God till....?  



Another reason is how I see Rev 6 following Matt 24
Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.  Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Revelation 6:4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.



Revelation 6:5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
Revelation 6:6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Matthew 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.


Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Matthew 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.  Matthew 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. Matthew 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

 

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;  Revelation 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.  Revelation 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)  Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:  Matthew 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:Matthew 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.  Matthew 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!  Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Another reason is 
And I looked and behold a horse white and the {one] sitting on it having a bow and was given to him A crown and he went forth overcoming  AND that he might conquer

5115. toxon ►
Strong's Concordance
toxon: a bow
Original Word: τόξον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: toxon
Phonetic Spelling: (tox'-on)
Definition: a bow
Usage: a bow.
a bow.
From the base of tikto; a bow (apparently as the simplest fabric) -- bow.


Another reason is 
 3528. nikaó ►
Strong's Concordance
nikaó: to conquer, prevail
Original Word: νικάω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: nikaó
Phonetic Spelling: (nik-ah'-o)
Definition: to conquer, prevail
Usage: I conquer, am victorious, overcome, prevail, subdue.
HELPS Word-studies
3528 nikáō(from 3529 /níkē, "victory") – properly, conquer (overcome); " 'to carry off the victory, come off victorious.' The verb implies a battle"

 

Another reason is
And I looked and behold a horse white and the {one] sitting on it having a bow and was given to him A crown and he went forth overcoming AND that he might conquer
Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?  Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.  Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.


Another reason is
it starts off with
And I looked and behold a horse white and the {one] sitting on it having a bow and was given to him a crown and he went forth overcoming  AND that he might conquer

and ends with  Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: Revelation 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Which makes the 1st WHITE horse and rider OF DECEPTION and CANT BE anyone other than Satan
 

500. antichristos ►
Strong's Concordance
antichristos: antichrist, (one who opposes Christ)
Original Word: ἀντίχριστος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: antichristos
Phonetic Spelling: (an-tee'-khris-tos)
Definition: antichrist, (one who opposes Christ)
Usage: antichrist, either one who puts himself in the place of, or the enemy (opponent) of the Messiah.
HELPS Word-studies
500 antíxristos (from 473 /antí, "opposite to, in place of" and 5547 /Xristós, "Christ") – properly, opposite to Christ; someone acting in place of (against) Christ; "Antichrist."

[DeighAnn]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

You should also look up the Greek word translated "Conquering" and discover that every other time in the KJV it was translated as "overcome."

The rider on the white horse GOES OUT to overcome and conquer. 

WHAT are the instructions ARE THE CHURCHES supposed to be GIVING TO US

to make sure we ENDURE TO THE END and receive the promises?   Do not be deceived by any man, there is one who is coming to OVERCOME and to CONQUER you.  Do not let him, make sure you are the one to OVERCOME and not be overcome by DECePTI0N AND LIES.  

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Revelation 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:


Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

 

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Revelation 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.