Your closest friendnt Posted May 20, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,885 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,774 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2022 1 minute ago, B-B said: … it’s late evening here , but I will try to respond tomorrow 😊 God bless Much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne2 Posted May 20, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,499 Content Per Day: 1.47 Reputation: 622 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, B-B said: Thanks for responding @Anne2 😊 (…it’s late evening here, so Im going. If I have time tomorrow I will respond) God bless Oh, I see you are from England. Oh, how i wish i could hear you speak instead of text. I love an English accent. It just sounds so classy and dignified to me! Blessings to you as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegaman 3.0 Posted May 20, 2022 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 57 Topic Count: 1,546 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 10,320 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 12,323 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/15/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/05/1951 Share Posted May 20, 2022 I don't think I have commented yet in this thread, not that I don't have anything I could say, I have just chosen not to to this point. The fact is that at this moment, all I am here to say is that it might have been subtly better, if the thread title were a different. The "versus" part of it, to me suggests sone enmity, as opposed to mere comparison. It invites division and debate, whether or not that was intended - which I doubt. Also, the title suggests that Catholicism is not a part if Christianity. One whose authority do we say a denomination is not Christian. Also, some people are remembers if denominations, who may not support all of the doctrines and practices of their denomination. Not all congregations in a denomination, are even in total alignment with each other. How many variations do you suppose exist just among Baptists alone? I can't count! I love discussion, I don't mind debate, I dislike division, I think we all need to check from time to time, which of those things we are a part of. I think it is more profitable for us to discuss specific doctrines of practices, their pros and cons, and their compatibility with scripture. What can we do to built Jesus church. The church, is another thing. There is no true church that is contained only in one denomination or congregation of believers. The church consists of all true disciples of Jesus and it was the disciples of Jesus who made other disciples of Jesus, and it is through them, that there is a succession, and we exist in all times since the first century, and in different languages, tractions, customs, lands, denominations, etc. A lot of people do not like the idea of denominations, I am not sure I really do either, but, they provide a way for people of like mindedness to find each other and get along and have a functional community. This is why I can go to most any congregation and find believers to have fellowship with. We are not clones. We have unity, not uniformity. Weird aberrations like Holy Laughter, are such an anomaly, that they don't even mean anything - certainly are not laid that the feet of Protestantism, any more than Jesus is responsible for His own betrayal because He chose and apostle who sinned against him. Personally I have grown quite tired of labels, as if putting a label on a person gives us the right or mandate to paint all that we label one way, with the same, broad brush! What does a member of Jesus true church look like? What do they believe? How do they behave? What unites is is more important than looking for ways to divide. That is all I wanted to say, other than to point out, that on member has been banned from this conversation because of the name-calling and vitriolic accusations and assertions, don't think it cannot happen again. Carry on! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathoner Posted May 20, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,317 Content Per Day: 7.11 Reputation: 13,350 Days Won: 99 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2022 (edited) The essentials have been given to us by the testimony of the scriptures themselves. Roman and Orthodox traditions have been clearly established as deviating substantially from these essentials, but I'm encountering familiar arguments in this topic which have been hashed out elsewhere on this forum. These continue to be flogged long after they expired. It won't be long before this topic is locked if this continues. In the scriptures, the Son of God teaches us to pray to our Father in heaven and not to Abraham, Moses, nor Mary; Catholic tradition teaches otherwise. The Lord declares that He alone is God, and He shall not share His glory with any other; The Vatican elevates Mary as the "queen of heaven." The Orthodox devised a scheme of icon worship and declare any who repudiate their idols as "anathema." They are apostate. Several members have furnished scriptural passages which rebuke the errors of Catholicism but this has no affect upon the Catholic apologist. There is no fellowship between light and darkness so if anyone is seeking an internet haven favorable to Catholicism, may I suggest searching for forums run by Catholics? Worthy is a Christian website, not a haven for Catholic apologists. Edited May 20, 2022 by Marathoner 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne2 Posted May 20, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,499 Content Per Day: 1.47 Reputation: 622 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said: I don't think I have commented yet in this thread, not that I don't have anything I could say, I have just chosen not to to this point. The fact is that at this moment, all I am here to say is that it might have been subtly better, if the thread title were a different. The "versus" part of it, to me suggests sone enmity, as opposed to mere comparison. It invites division and debate, whether or not that was intended - which I doubt. Also, the title suggests that Catholicism is not a part if Christianity. One whose authority do we say a denomination is not Christian. Also, some people are remembers if denominations, who may not support all of the doctrines and practices of their denomination. Not all congregations in a denomination, are even in total alignment with each other. How many variations do you suppose exist just among Baptists alone? I can't count! I love discussion, I don't mind debate, I dislike division, I think we all need to check from time to time, which of those things we are a part of. I think it is more profitable for us to discuss specific doctrines of practices, their pros and cons, and their compatibility with scripture. What can we do to built Jesus church. The church, is another thing. There is no true church that is contained only in one denomination or congregation of believers. The church consists of all true disciples of Jesus and it was the disciples of Jesus who made other disciples of Jesus, and it is through them, that there is a succession, and we exist in all times since the first century, and in different languages, tractions, customs, lands, denominations, etc. A lot of people do not like the idea of denominations, I am not sure I really do either, but, they provide a way for people of like mindedness to find each other and get along and have a functional community. This is why I can go to most any congregation and find believers to have fellowship with. We are not clones. We have unity, not uniformity. Weird aberrations like Holy Laughter, are such an anomaly, that they don't even mean anything - certainly are not laid that the feet of Protestantism, any more than Jesus is responsible for His own betrayal because He chose and apostle who sinned against him. Personally I have grown quite tired of labels, as if putting a label on a person gives us the right or mandate to paint all that we label one way, with the same, broad brush! What does a member of Jesus true church look like? What do they believe? How do they behave? What unites is is more important than looking for ways to divide. That is all I wanted to say, other than to point out, that on member has been banned from this conversation because of the name-calling and vitriolic accusations and assertions, don't think it cannot happen again. Carry on! I would like to hear your views. As I think of the question of the essentials, I only posted two. Since Some Orthodox did not accept certain council decisions. The Greek orthodox consider only seven councils as "ecumenical". What I like looking at these things is these Churches Seem to see themselves as needing healing, to attain to original unity. And strive for it in one degree or another. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't see concept that in the Church anymore. So Ecumenism is viewed differently when it comes to the protestant Church. That is perhaps, with distinguishing out Anglicans. The Eastern Church did not suffer a Protestant Revolt per se. So, seeking to "heal" a division is approached differently among those members of the historic Church. They recognize the position of those they are in disagreement with, to restore their place. Me, I think that is a good thing. Edited May 20, 2022 by Anne2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted May 20, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,885 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,774 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2022 7 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said: I don't think I have commented yet in this thread, not that I don't have anything I could say, I have just chosen not to to this point. The fact is that at this moment, all I am here to say is that it might have been subtly better, if the thread title were a different. The "versus" part of it, to me suggests sone enmity, as opposed to mere comparison. It invites division and debate, whether or not that was intended - which I doubt. Also, the title suggests that Catholicism is not a part if Christianity. One whose authority do we say a denomination is not Christian. Also, some people are remembers if denominations, who may not support all of the doctrines and practices of their denomination. Not all congregations in a denomination, are even in total alignment with each other. How many variations do you suppose exist just among Baptists alone? I can't count! I love discussion, I don't mind debate, I dislike division, I think we all need to check from time to time, which of those things we are a part of. I think it is more profitable for us to discuss specific doctrines of practices, their pros and cons, and their compatibility with scripture. What can we do to built Jesus church. The church, is another thing. There is no true church that is contained only in one denomination or congregation of believers. The church consists of all true disciples of Jesus and it was the disciples of Jesus who made other disciples of Jesus, and it is through them, that there is a succession, and we exist in all times since the first century, and in different languages, tractions, customs, lands, denominations, etc. A lot of people do not like the idea of denominations, I am not sure I really do either, but, they provide a way for people of like mindedness to find each other and get along and have a functional community. This is why I can go to most any congregation and find believers to have fellowship with. We are not clones. We have unity, not uniformity. Weird aberrations like Holy Laughter, are such an anomaly, that they don't even mean anything - certainly are not laid that the feet of Protestantism, any more than Jesus is responsible for His own betrayal because He chose and apostle who sinned against him. Personally I have grown quite tired of labels, as if putting a label on a person gives us the right or mandate to paint all that we label one way, with the same, broad brush! What does a member of Jesus true church look like? What do they believe? How do they behave? What unites is is more important than looking for ways to divide. That is all I wanted to say, other than to point out, that on member has been banned from this conversation because of the name-calling and vitriolic accusations and assertions, don't think it cannot happen again. Carry on! I am glad that you had to say something. I did not know that you were thinking in these lines. I thought that you had the Spirit of the Reformist ancestors working in you..without prejudice. Which is not saying anything complementary about the Catholic Church, and anyone that does not follow them to what they say and do to a Tee. Your suggestion that we should look for similarities first with the other Christian communities is excellent, I believe it is a good quidance. It takes the righteous indignation out of people, at the least it tries. If someone is willing. I do not think that I like very much what I wrote...but I have a lot of friends who are Catholics and Orthodox and they all believe that Jesus Christ died for the forgiveness of their sins. For miracles they have Mary and the Saints...I say to them that you can also ask Jesus for his help, and I go....the Good Shepard!!! I never say anything against what they do, if not they are going to thing that you are not a Christian... Thank you for posting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne2 Posted May 20, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,499 Content Per Day: 1.47 Reputation: 622 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2022 12 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said: I am glad that you had to say something. I did not know that you were thinking in these lines. I thought that you had the Spirit of the Reformist ancestors working in you..without prejudice. Which is not saying anything complementary about the Catholic Church, and anyone that does not follow them to what they say and do to a Tee. Your suggestion that we should look for similarities first with the other Christian communities is excellent, I believe it is a good quidance. It takes the righteous indignation out of people, at the least it tries. If someone is willing. I do not think that I like very much what I wrote...but I have a lot of friends who are Catholics and Orthodox and they all believe that Jesus Christ died for the forgiveness of their sins. For miracles they have Mary and the Saints...I say to them that you can also ask Jesus for his help, and I go....the Good Shepard!!! I never say anything against what they do, if not they are going to thing that you are not a Christian... Thank you for posting. Yep, Roman Catholicism has somethings you "must believe". I can't, so I can't be Roman Catholic. I am hoping some of that will Change with the situation of the Anglican Church seeking unity again with them. Anglicanism is having a hard time with the liberal culture creep. If The Roman Church dropped those requirements it would be delightful. Then I could truly truly be able to consider it. Some Messianics are having Dialogue with them as well, which is very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted May 20, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,885 Content Per Day: 2.41 Reputation: 2,774 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2022 12 minutes ago, Anne2 said: I would like to hear your views. As I think of the question of the essentials, I only posted two. Since Some Orthodox did not accept certain council decisions. The Greek orthodox consider only seven councils as "ecumenical". What I like looking at these things is these Churches Seem to see themselves as needing healing, to attain to original unity. And strive for it in one degree or another. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't see concept that in the Church anymore. So Ecumenism is viewed differently when it comes to the protestant Church. That is perhaps, with distinguishing out Anglicans. The Eastern Church did not suffer a Protestant Revolt per se. So, seeking to "heal" a division is approached differently among those members of the historic Church. They recognize the position of those they are in disagreement with, to restore their place. Me, I think that is a good thing. When were icons banned in the Byzantine Empire? 730 In 726 the Byzantine emperor Leo III took a public stand against the perceived worship of icons, and in 730 their use was officially prohibited. This opened a persecution of icon venerators that was severe in the reign of Leo's successor, Constantine V (741–775). The second phase of Iconoclasm: 815–843 Emperor Leo V, who reigned from 813–820, banned images once again in 815, beginning what is often referred to as a second phase of Byzantine Iconoclasm. This happened from the head of the state...in co-operation with the leadership of the church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne2 Posted May 20, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,499 Content Per Day: 1.47 Reputation: 622 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2022 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Marathoner said: The essentials have been given to us by the testimony of the scriptures themselves. Roman and Orthodox traditions have been clearly established as deviating substantially from these essentials, but I'm encountering familiar arguments in this topic which have been hashed out elsewhere on this forum. These continue to be flogged long after they expired. It won't be long before this topic is locked if this continues. In the scriptures, the Son of God teaches us to pray to our Father in heaven and not to Abraham, Moses, nor Mary; Catholic tradition teaches otherwise. The Lord declares that He alone is God, and He shall not share His glory with any other; The Vatican elevates Mary as the "queen of heaven." The Orthodox devised a scheme of icon worship and declare any who repudiate their idols as "anathema." They are apostate. Several members have furnished scriptural passages which rebuke the errors of Catholicism but this has no affect upon the Catholic apologist. There is no fellowship between light and darkness so if anyone is seeking an internet haven favorable to Catholicism, may I suggest searching for forums run by Catholics? Worthy is a Christian website, not a haven for Catholic apologists. There are Orthodox that rejected that council. Broadbrushing the Original Catholic Church distorts these things. Catholic applies to them all, as does Orthodoxy. Not all the councils apply to all of them. That is why I listed only Two essentials. Edited May 20, 2022 by Anne2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathoner Posted May 20, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,317 Content Per Day: 7.11 Reputation: 13,350 Days Won: 99 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2022 A nod to @Omegaman 3.0 and his post is in order, I think. If the purpose of this topic is to bash others, I wasn't aware of that. At the very least that's not why I chose to participate. We can discuss Catholicism and Orthodoxy (the latter is so vast and varied that shorthand is required for spatial considerations!), and also Christianity, but this is by no means a commentary regarding some who persist with those traditions as being wicked or evil. Of course not! The nature of discussion on a given subject being what it is, some are bound to disagree with others. That happens among brethren. If I've taken exception to anything in this topic, it's the argument that Catholic or Orthodox traditions are firmly based in the testimony of the scriptures which I believe they are not. Notice how I haven't championed a position which stipulates that Protestant norms are firmly based in the scriptures, either. I've encountered more than one Catholic apologist and even they will not insist that RCC traditions are present and stipulated in scripture. No, because like their Orthodox counterparts, they draw upon patristical authority in those matters. "The fathers did it this way." But I've been under the impression that's what this topic has been about, yes? We're discussing matters of theology, not whether someone loves Jesus Christ or not. Perhaps I was mistaken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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