Catholicism vs Christianity

[appy]

Everything they are taught must go through the catechism first.  They are taught that Roman Catholic tradition is the measuring stick.  None of their doctrines can be backed up with Scripture.  First they believe mary can guarantee them eternal life, followed by doing Eucharist every week for salvation.  They are so heavily indoctrinated with the catechism, and their institution forbids the members from questioning the catechism or what the leaders are teaching.

I've been talking to several lately, from what they do tell me, they have confirmed for me, that their faith and trust is indeed, first and foremost centered in mary.  They can not understand that any forms of veneration is giving worship and glory to something or someone else other than God.

This stand alone verse, can't make it any clearer that God will not share His glory. 

Isaiah 42:8
“I am the Lord; that is my name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols.

I have shared Scripture after Scripture, only to find myself banging my head on the wall.  They absolutely can not comprehend Scripture.  Neither can they back up the Roman Catholic church beliefs and teachings with Scripture.  What they believe, is simply not in Scripture.

What I have been told by them has caused my jaw to drop to the floor in shock and in disgust.  They go to great lengths, in declaring mary as "queen of heaven".  They come up with lots of excuses for this, which can not be backed up by Scripture. They may speak of Christ, but in reality, they do not truly believe in Him.  Their leaders are truly blind guides.

 

[appy]

15 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

Roman Catholics take their theology from the bible

I have to disagree with this, because every time I point to Scripture... I am countered with what the catechism says or what second century writers said.  Recently from talking to several Roman Catholics, I've learned more about what the catechism says, than I cared to know.  Their theology is rooted in tradition and the catechism.

57 minutes ago, appy said:

Mary, having a man betrothed [to her], and being nevertheless a virgin, by yielding obedience, become the cause of salvation, both to herself and the whole human race.

I just recently learned that the above came from  second-century writers who readily proclaimed “death through Eve, life through Mary” (Read Sts. Justin Martyr and Irenaeus).  In other words, The Rcc is proclaiming Mary to be the New Eve—the woman who bears the seed who brings about this ultimate victory. 

It is mind boggling what the Roman Catholic institution teaches.

ok, I'll step down from the soap box.

 

[Justin Adams]

32 minutes ago, appy said:

It is mind boggling what the Roman Catholic institution teaches.

Unfortunately, Augustine made many dictates that were not scripturally accurate.

He actually bribed the jurors of the Pelagus discussion and was a very twisted fellow. In those days, due to his sway over most of the 'church' what Augustine said became law overnight.

Not all of the Church Fathers were correct either and if you care to research "Against Heresies" you will find that Christ was stated to be in His fourties at some point, completely obliterating His death and resurrection events at approx age 32.

In those days it was a 'free-for-all' as far as doctrines were concerned.  Then along Came Calvin and Luther later whos writing against Jews was quite disgusting.

[Starise]

15 hours ago, Anne2 said:

Nobody has said anything yet about the WHOLE CATHOLIC Church. Those historic CATHOLICS which call themselves ORTHODOX.

So much bashing on other branches of his body. But then again, thats what we know of protestants sola scriptura isn't it? So many voices arguing about what scripture says. I love Catholics, as they are Christian just like you are. Be careful, lest you hypocritically judge.

I'm willing to be educated here on this. This would infer some comments here are coming from ignorance maybe some of mine included. So there is a branch of Catholics that are ORTHODOX which are somehow different from other Catholics?

To say Catholics are Christians is that same as me saying Methodists are Christians or any other denomination. I can't honestly say that about any of them because I know they all have unsaved people in them.

Maybe I see the source of some of your frustrations ( maybe not) in that it looks like we here at Worthy are picking on Catholics as a group. I feel pretty sure this is not true, yet for any person who knows their bible even half decent, they know that there are many things that are not right about that church. Serious issues many here have already raised. Would we be honest if we didn't point it out?

The problem is there is so much to point out that threads on Catholicism are often flooded, everywhere you look there are problems, and the problems are mounting almost daily with the pope coming out in support of LGBTQ lifestyles among other things.

Other threads here have gone on and on.......and on about all of it from the beginnings of the Catholic church to where they are now. In addition we have long time Catholics who seen the issues and left. 

I understand that to a person who is clueless ( not suggesting you are) this all looks like an attack on their faith and what they believe in. This is why I try to wear to kid gloves in order to try to understand where the person is coming from.

We don't want to attack. We want to love. Whatever we do we want to try to do it in love. I don't think it always comes across that way, and yes, we probably should be  as critical of the Presbyterians and the Methodists too to be fair about it all.

[Anne2]

19 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

First let me state categorically that anyone who has Christ for their Lord is a Christian.  Catholic or protestant or whatever

2nd There is one body, and one Head....Jesus Christ

Thank you.

 

20 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

Denominations are made by men and as with anything made by man there are flaws. If you put your faith in your Church instead of Christ, there is no salvation

To answer simply. The difference between most protestants and orthodox groups (not all) and Roman Catholics is thus

Protestants are sola scriptura...that this they think that the bible alone is the will and direction of God

Here's the rub. The bashing of the entire historical Church lumps them all together. Yet Protestantism is wide and vast. They don't lump themselves all together like that. We have seen all kinds of "movements" in Protestantism, if we were to label it all "Protestantism", it would not be fair or right. But so many do just that with the historical Catholic Church.

 

20 hours ago, Riverwalker said:

Teaching on purgatory, praying to saints, the power to forgive only given to priests, transubstantiation, Mortal and venial sins and all the teachings of the Catholic Church that are outside the bible are found here.

But their core beliefs as found in the creed and the mass service are pretty solid Christianity

What does the various Orthodox churches teach concerning the above?

Pugatory? Don't think so

Transubstatiation? Nope

Authority of the Roman bishop? Nope. They split over this.

The power to forgive sins? No, not in the way many Catholic bashers think. It is Christ working in and through them. Just like the Levitical Priesthood. We can see this distinction in scripture.

Mr 2:7  Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
Lu 5:21  And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
 

Even though forgiveness was by repentance and offerings of the priests hands, they understood these were mere vessels whereby God operated. Which many "Protestants" agree with concerning themselves. But this charge against Roman Catholics, as well as Orthodox Catholics Continues. 

[Justin Adams]

The Russian Orthodox Church has blessed Putin in his war. I saw the service.

[Anne2]

2 minutes ago, Heaven_Bound said:

The usage of Priests, confession, has purposefully attacked the personal relationship from Believer to God. 

Take it up with Moses. God appears to have spoken to him to instruct for a pattern such a thing. The Historic Priesthood appears in like manner to operate. No different than many claim God spoke to them to operate for his purposes through him.

Mt 10:1  And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. {against: or, over }

By whom do they do their various "ministries".
Mt 12:27  And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
Lu 11:19  And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.

Don't get me wrong, I love to read the many posts of God's wonderful works he does through many of you wonderful saints. But it grieves my heart the bashing of others claiming to do the same. 

12 minutes ago, Heaven_Bound said:

The Catholics have crippled the Believer's ability to be solely committed to God in a one on one Father to Child standing by placing control of mediation onto the leadership of the Church.

Your abilities? To operate in the power God has given you? They can't operate according to his power? It isn't private.

 

14 minutes ago, Heaven_Bound said:

 And then they literally bastardized that scene by encouraging prayer to be made to selected Saints.

Again, it's called communion of the saints. They don't understand them to be dead at all.

Mt 22:32  I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Mr 12:27  He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
Lu 20:38  For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

Do I myself agree that I can ask a departed from this life saint to beseech God for me on my behalf? I am not convinced of that. But that disagreement gives me no cause to falsely accuse them, to be doing something else than they say it is.

[Anne2]

28 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

The Russian Orthodox Church has blessed Putin in his war. I saw the service.

The Russian Church, agrees against the westernizing of the Church under the rule of globalism 

Do you support globalism? With its promotion of lgbtq,  No male nor female anymore, Hormone blockers to our young children, abortion on demand, gay marriage, Etc? How many Children are murdered every day in western societies? Yet, we decry Putins war? The west, accepts abortion right up until birth. Is the Russian Church supposed to become martyrs to support those things?

I think your comments are sorely lacking in all the underlying issues.

Can we at least agree in prayer that God's will be done for the sake of all?

Edited May 20, 2022 by Anne2

[Your closest friendnt]

6 hours ago, appy said:

Mary, having a man betrothed [to her], and being nevertheless a virgin, by yielding obedience, become the cause of salvation, both to herself and the whole human race.

our Scapular...
...is a rich present brought down from Heaven by Our Lady herself. "Wear it devoutly and perseveringly", she says to each soul, "It is my garment. To be clothed in it means you secure eternal life."

It is a sign of our contract, of our covenant with Mary. She promised: "Whosoever dies clothed in this Scapular shall not suffer eternal fire." The condition for obtaining this promise is to wear the Scapular imposed by the priest devoutly and at all times.

Hail, holy Queen, mother of mercy, Hail our life, our sweetness, and our hope. To you we cry,
To thee do we send up our sighs,
Turn then, most gracious advocate,
so by her fervent intercession we may be delivered from present evils and from everlasting death.

Hail, holy Queen, mother of mercy, Hail our life, our sweetness, and our hope. To you we cry,

 

Compare the above with Scripture. The above are current doctrines being taught to the laity, today.   As soon as you compare any doctrine to Scripture, you will immediately see the error. There  is nothing in Scripture that even hints there is a holy queen. Nor is there any Scripture that says she is our hope.

Our salvation and hope is in Jesus Christ alone, WITHOUT mary.

Isaiah 42:8
“I am the Lord; that is my name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols.

Isaiah 43:10
Before Me no god was formed, and after Me none will come.

Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior.

Isaiah 44:6
“This is what the LORD says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

Revelation 7:10
And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”

Ephesians 3:12
In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence.

Hope that you will discover that they also believe in Jesus Christ, and they Celebrate Christmas, the virgin birth of Jesus Christ and that does not make them Idolaters. And soon after they Celebrate the Baptism of Jesus by John the Baptist and the witness that came from the Heavenly Father and the baptism of Jesus that faithful day by the Holy Spirit from the Heavenly Father. 

And in due time they will celebrate the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead...

With the heart man believes unto righteousness, before saying or doing anything and  before anyone else knows it, but the Holy Spirit, and the testimony of the Holy Spirit it is truth. 

So the lame and incapacitated and those too weak to speak can all be saved by grace like anyone else. 

[Anne2]

Just now, Heaven_Bound said:

Yeshua is our High Priest, our Mediator, our God in human form.   Yeshua said, there's only [ONE WAY] to the Father, by going through Him.

 

High priest yes. 

The Apostles spoke of themselves as a Chosen priesthood, a nation set apart. A kingdom of Priests. Take it up with them.

1Pe 2:9  But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: