The Rapture according to Holy Spirit interpreted scripture

[JohnD]

Preface:

This is first of all not a debate thread.

God does encourage us to test the spirits:

1 John 4:1 (AV)
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Which I urge you to do.

It would be unbiblical and foolish to do otherwise.

But this does not mean I am going to be the one to answer every objection.

I did that sort of thing for many years.

And there comes a point that the spread of truth is hindered by the controversy of argumentation

designed by the devil to so distract spreaders of the truth that they cannot accomplish the spreading of the truth. 

That's a mouthful stating I will no longer get bogged down by these tactics by individuals who are aware or unaware that this is what they are doing.

I offer this under the guide of the Holy Spirit who encourages us all (in the Bible he wrote see 2 Peter 1:20-21) to test everything (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

including him (1 John 4:1) not because of anything he is lacking, but we human beings are gullible and not good judges of... well, anything.

Acts 17:11 is how you test the spirits and all things (by searching the scriptures).

Proverbs 25:2 (AV)
2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

Deuteronomy 29:29 (AV)
29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

Isaiah 28:9–13 (AV)
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

The traditions and ways of man are satanic (Matthew 16:23 / John 8:43-44). See also Mark 7:13 and Mark 7:7 (even the worship of Jesus is made void by the traditions of man). Answering the age old question what's Jesus talking about here? :

Matthew 7:21–23 (AV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Believe HIM, not me, HIM.

[JohnD]

The equating of the rapture of the Church with the historic events when God delivered his people from judgment in the past establishes the pattern.

From the night of the first Passover, the Great Flood, the dividing of the Red sea, etc. 

Especially under the New Covenant, God will not pour out his wrath on his people who he forgave for our faith in his dear Son; whose sacrifice paid our sin debt.

Jeremiah 31:34 / Isaiah 54:9-10.

Since most of the Church has been under persecution for most of history, it is safe to say this does not apply to the wrath of the world or of the devil who loathes

believers in Jesus as much as he loathes Jesus. But... God's wrath was poured out on Jesus on our behalf and he takes that fact extremely personally.

So when the believer's  tribulation (Revelation 12:17 - 13:18) has passed and God's wrath (the Great Tribulation) is about to begin,

those few believers in Jesus who survive in hiding to that point will be gathered / taken out:

The center year (year four) is highlighted by pulling it closer / expanding it to the reader.

The focus of global hate will be on Christians who refuse to renounce Christ. And the persecution to the death of Christians will begin. The mark of the beast is merely the system used to single out the one group who will not take the mark (the symbol of support for the false christ / antichrist).

Once the Christians are believed to be eliminated, the beast will renege on his covenant with the Jewish people (Daniel 9:27 / Zechariah 5:5) and revert to his Jerusalem (Babylon). And the Jews will be the global focus for persecution like never before (Jeremiah 30:7).  The since reestablished temple sacrifice will be abated, and all hell will break loose on Earth.

The rapture will take place on day 1335 of the 2520 day 70th Week of Daniel (as Daniel 12:12 reveals). 

Again, this is not date setting since no one will even know precisely when the 70th Week begins until the daily sacrifice is halted.

[JohnD]

The error in traditional eschatology has been in misinterpreting the 70th Week of Daniel

as one 7-year tribulation rather than two 3.5 year tribulations.

So all the arguments that seem to oppose one another actually line up once the 70th Week

of Daniel is properly understood.

The one rapture will happen:

PRE Great Tribulation

MID 70th Week of Daniel*

POST Believer's Tribulation

* this is not traditional Mid trib eschatology since it also is predicated on a single 7-year tribulation which would mean God's wrath is poured out also on the saints

[JohnD]

2 Thessalonians 2:1–4 (AV)
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall NOT come, except there come a falling away first, AND that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
 

Some Bible teachers take this exact same text and twist it around to say these events will not take place until after the Church is raptured out. 

The gathering together unto him will not take place until these events (the revealing of the antichrist and the desecration of the Holiest Place in the Jewish temple by the one claiming to be God) happens.

 

[JohnD]

This is about the second coming of Christ:

1 Corinthians 15:51–57 (AV)
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

It lists two kinds of believers

1. disembodied spirits from heaven being reunited with their dead bodies raised incorruptible forevermore
2. believers who have not died yet being changed into the same incorruptible forever bodies with their spirits

The few people who survive to the point of the rapture may well fly up into heaven as Elijah and Jesus did. Enoch may have done so also by apparently it was not witnessed or even said in scripture that he flew but was simply "no more" because God took him. 

John 3:13 (AV)
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Written post cross and resurrection and post ascension.

No man has ascended up to heaven by the time of the writing of the Gospel of John.

Ephesians 4:8–10 (AV)
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Which took place the same day Jesus died on the cross (Luke 23:43) but before his ascension 40 days later:

John 20:17 (AV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Which he ascended to heaven on Sunday (the morrow after the Sabbath) in accordance with the waving of the firstfruits (Leviticus 23:15).

Point being the thing that makes all these verse true is the fact that Jesus was disembodied in his ascent to Sheol to free the inhabitants of what we call Abraham's bosom to take them in their disembodied spirits to heaven the same day he died on the cross while Jesus' body remained in the tomb three days and three nights. His having yet to ascend to heaven in John 20:17 was in his bodily resurrected form.

So the rapture may appear to those left behind like people flying to heaven... but arriving in heaven will be as disembodied spirits until the general resurrection of the the dead at the return of Christ to Earth. 

Jude 14 (AV)
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

The dead in Christ will rise first and the believers on Earth will be changed in the twinkling of an eye.

Edited July 5, 2022 by JohnD

[JohnD]

2 Corinthians 5:1–8 (AV)
1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Until the resurrection / twinkling of the eye change, verse 8 firmly applies.

[JohnD]

The mount of transfiguration.

Matthew 17:1–8 (AV)
1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.

1. how did they know it was Moses and Elijah with Jesus?
2. were they bodily form or spirit?

For that matter, the account of Sheol (traditionally referred to as the Rich man and Lazarus) Luke 16:19-31...

1. were they in bodily form?
2. not the physical attributes they had
3. but their bodily remains were on earth in tombs / graves

How different from a human body is a human spirit?

We are made up of all three:

1 Thessalonians 5:23 (AV)
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

In fact what puzzles people the most about where man ends up in death is due to their only considering one aspect / disposition of the three.