Charlie744 Posted July 14, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,690 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 862 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted July 14, 2022 32 minutes ago, Jayne said: Hi, Charlie. Yes, the law has been fulfilled in us [who are saved and live by the Spirit]. The Bible says so in Romans 8:3. It says, "...And so he, [the Father], condemned sin in the flesh [the body of Christ on the cross], in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." So, the question is obviously begged, what ARE the commandments of Christ to be obeyed as evidence of our love for him? There are three. Two from Matthew 22:36-40 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets." And the third - John 13:34 - "Yet Jesus also said, “I give you a new commandment: love one another. Just as I have loved you, you must also love one another” So - love God with all you have and are [that implies moral behavior and holy behavior] love others in the same manner that you esteem yourself love others in the same way that Christ loves These three will ensure that you conduct is what God wants. Thank you for your response! If these “two” commandments hang on / depend / represented the law and the prophets, doesn’t this mean (my opinion) they summarize the 10? I am sure if you were asked one by one if any of the commandments were no longer in effect, such as, do not commit murder, you would agree they are still relevant and to be obeyed? Isn’t the penalty of the law paid for should we place our faith in Jesus and not the law or sin having been done away with? - we will no longer be “under the penalty of the law” if we place our faith in Jesus? Before the Cross- drive 70 in a school zone and get a huge ticket. After the Cross AND after putting my faith in Jesus I repeat the same transgression, don’t I still receive a ticket BUT it is paid for by Jesus? (Obviously I am purposely leaving out any issue re: intentional or deliberate in this example). But in the weak example, the law is not eliminated and still represents the character of the Lord s and it still represents how we should try to conduct ourselves.. I think Paul discussed how tee we should not “sin” because we are saved through His sacrifice. Jesus certainly did not die so we are now free to sin.. Also, regarding the 10 commandments.. Jesus would not (my opinion) leave this earth to leave us without two things: the most important of course is the way to salvation- the Cross, and the second is to ensure there is a “bright line” that we can easily see that tells us what “sin” is - His 10 commandments. He was the only One able to fulfill them all - and every minute of the day. We still can not fulfill even one day without sinning. If He didn’t shine a bright light on the 10 commandments then we each of us could and would design our own rules / commandments/ etc., to live by — AFTER THE CROSS. That would not make any sense to me, nor would it justify His sacrifice. I just believe it is so easy for us on this side of the Cross to think He did away with the law instead of understanding how serious the law IS and why He paid such a price. Just my thoughts, Charlie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted July 15, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 108 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,827 Content Per Day: 1.29 Reputation: 4,818 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted July 15, 2022 15 minutes ago, Charlie744 said: Just my thoughts, Charlie Charlie, because the Bible says that a person who lives by the law must live ALL of it - I take that to mean what it says. Obey them all if you are going to obey one. Of course things like murder, rape, theft, and more are still sins today, but it's NOT because they are "in the Law". There are a host of things that were sins long before the law that were also mentioned in the Law and are still sins today. It's like God put into effect the moral nature of humanity with Adam and Eve. I don't stay away from murder or stealing or lying because they are in the Law. I stay away from them because they are unholy and were so from the beginning. The law doesn't mention all sins. Child abuse is not mentioned. In my opinion, NOT because it isn't important, but because it's a given! Pedophilia also isn't mentioned. If we are going to "obey" the law because it is "the Law", we are going to leave out things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted July 15, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 108 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,827 Content Per Day: 1.29 Reputation: 4,818 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted July 15, 2022 And by-the-by, I greatly believe in study of the entire Old Testament. I love it. Many Christians avoid it. It's boring they say, it's repetitive they say, it "doesn't apply to me" they say..... I say that it is all God's Word and all to be read, studied, memorized in pieces, and meditated on. There is a vast amount to learn in the Old Testament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopefully Posted July 15, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,323 Content Per Day: 1.05 Reputation: 1,465 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/07/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted July 15, 2022 We are not saved by the law, but by faith in Jesus. Our faith in Jesus causes us to be what the law wants. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie744 Posted July 15, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,690 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 862 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted July 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Jayne said: Charlie, because the Bible says that a person who lives by the law must live ALL of it - I take that to mean what it says. Obey them all if you are going to obey one. Of course things like murder, rape, theft, and more are still sins today, but it's NOT because they are "in the Law". There are a host of things that were sins long before the law that were also mentioned in the Law and are still sins today. It's like God put into effect the moral nature of humanity with Adam and Eve. I don't stay away from murder or stealing or lying because they are in the Law. I stay away from them because they are unholy and were so from the beginning. The law doesn't mention all sins. Child abuse is not mentioned. In my opinion, NOT because it isn't important, but because it's a given! Pedophilia also isn't mentioned. If we are going to "obey" the law because it is "the Law", we are going to leave out things. I am sorry but I am not following you here. And I am sure it may be me that is interpreting this incorrectly. It almost sounds like because there are so many more sins than what is mentioned in the 10, then they are incomplete and???? If God write His 10 in stone what does that say? Is the law still in play or do you think it is no longer to be obeyed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie744 Posted July 15, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,690 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 862 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted July 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Jayne said: And by-the-by, I greatly believe in study of the entire Old Testament. I love it. Many Christians avoid it. It's boring they say, it's repetitive they say, it "doesn't apply to me" they say..... I say that it is all God's Word and all to be read, studied, memorized in pieces, and meditated on. There is a vast amount to learn in the Old Testament. I agree ! God would not and could not have sent Jesus unless and until He ensured the Tanakh was complete. The NT tries to explain the OT.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie744 Posted July 15, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,690 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 862 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted July 15, 2022 55 minutes ago, Hopefully said: We are not saved by the law, but by faith in Jesus. Our faith in Jesus causes us to be what the law wants. Agree, the law could not and never was supposed to save us. It did reveal how far we are from God… THAT DISTANCE HAS NOT CHANGED. But of course, His sacrifice and our faith in Him is what is required to “reconcile” that distance- it did not eliminate the law. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted July 15, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.60 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 15, 2022 8 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said: I have some idea, does anyone wants to listen? This is a beautiful question, hope we can have more questions like that. I would love to listen. Don't 'shorten' up anything up on my account either. I like details and Scripture and long, as you well know. So Please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted July 15, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.60 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 15, 2022 6 hours ago, Charlie744 said: Let me ask this... Is the Law still in effect? Has the Law been done away with? Is there still sin in the world? Has sin been done away with? Thanks. The 10 commandments are still in effect. As for all the laws given on how Israel was to conduct their government, their policing of their people in their nation I would imagine went back into effect when they became a nation again. Why wouldn't they? As for the Christian, since Christ became our access to God 'tearing the veil in two' so that we can boldly go into the Holy of Holies, through His blood as the Lamb slain and He is our High Priest then YES, all the law is in effect just not as it was previously. Personally, I don't know about wearing linen with wool, but I am all about sending Murderers and Rapists straight to God. Has sin been done away with? THAT would be a big fat NO. When those follow a law the law becomes a law unto themselves so yes laws are not only in effect we are being held to a higher standard. They couldn't do it under the law, under grace, we are not even supposed to THiNK it and with us having the Holy Spirit to call on to lead and guide us, anyone who thinks GOD has changed is in for a rude awakening...IMHO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeighAnn Posted July 15, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 6,301 Content Per Day: 3.60 Reputation: 1,658 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 15, 2022 5 hours ago, Charlie744 said: Let me ask this... Is the Law still in effect? Yes for those not in Christ Has the Law been done away with? Yes for those in Christ Does this mean we do not have to obey the Law? Is there still sin in the world? Yes but we are not of this world Has sin been done away with? Yes for those not under the law Does this mean we do not sin? If we believe in Jesus and accept Him as our Lord and Savior, but continue to sin under the presumption all our sin has or will be taken away, are we still saved? This would tie into His final Words before He returned to His Father - Obey my commandments and believe in Me..... both are required I think. If Jesus told us to "believe in Him and He is the Messiah, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world".... ONLY, then I would be more inclined to believe in the "once saved, always saved" doctrine where once you accept Jesus, you are good to go. So I guess I would have to ask you what do you mean when you say those in Christ are no longer under the Law or sin.... Thanks. I don't believe sin has been done away with but the penalty of DEATH for sin has been paid, though Judgment is still coming, just not death. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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