Truth Be Told

[WordSword]

All of the Scriptures that appear to teach that one can become unsaved, which word isn’t actually used, are just suppositions in order to express the impossibility of being saved more than once, enforcing the desire to be saved. If the statements were true, what sense would there be in God saving someone, then eventually become lost. It would be like assuming God didn’t know they would become lost. 

 

Galatians 5:4: “Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.” When we think the Law can save it shows we are not understanding that only Christ saves. The supposition is “that it would be as though you had fallen from grace.”

“Whosoever” does not intend that anyone was justified by the law but that if anyone was (“no man is justified by the law” - Gal 3:11; 2:21), which gives nothing particular, but assumes that if there were such. The passage only shows they were suspected of trusting in the law, shown by Paul’s encouragement that they would not think different from what Paul thought (v 10). Also, if you look at any translation, you will see they interpret this as merely a supposition.

Verse 7 shows they were doing right, but they were considering the law, which temporarily “hindered” their progression in Christianity, and if continued it would cause them not to obey the truth. The text does not say “have not obeyed the truth” but “should not obey,” indicating an indecisiveness in the situation; they were attempting to “persuade” them from the truth (v 8), but the confidence Paul had in them stood firm, that they would “run well” (v 7). This is why Paul encouraged them that they would not think different from what Paul taught them (v 10); and he calls them “brethren” when he tells them they were “called.” 

It’s also noteworthy to add that it’s not obedience to any truth that saves, because it’s only faith in Christ that justifies. When God “draws” one to His Son, He knows he’s going to continue “to abide.” He doesn’t draw those whom He knows will choose only to be just nominal (in name only) in their profession of Christ!

John Gill: “Ye are fallen from grace; that is, either from that grace which they professed to have; for there might be some in these churches, as in others, who were only nominal Christians, and formal professors; who had declared they saw themselves lost and undone sinners, destitute of a righteousness, and professed to believe in Christ alone for righteousness and strength, but now trusted in themselves, and in the works of the law: or from the scheme of grace in the whole of man's salvation, which will admit of no mixture of works; either it is one or the other, it cannot be both; wherefore by their taking on the side of works, they showed that they had entirely dropped the scheme of grace: or else from the Gospel of the grace of God, from whence they were removed, through the influence of false teachers; particularly the doctrine of free justification by the grace of God, through the righteousness of Christ; which was entirely set aside by their seeking to be instilled by the works of the law; and from this they might be said to be fallen.” 

Albert Barnes: “Ye are fallen from grace - That is, this would amount to apostasy from the religion of the Redeemer, and would be in fact a rejection of the grace of the gospel. That this had ever in fact occurred among true Christians the apostle does not affirm unless he affirmed that people can in fact be justified by the Law, since he makes the falling from grace a consequence of that. But did Paul mean to teach that? Did he mean to affirm that any man in fact had been, or could be justified by his own obedience to the Law? Let his own writings answer; see, especially, Romans 3:20. But unless he held that, then this passage does not prove that anyone who has ever been a true Christian has fallen away. The fair interpretation of the passage does not demand that. Its simple and obvious meaning is, that if a man who has been a professed Christian should be justified by his own conformity to the Law, and adopt that mode of justification, then that would amount to a rejection of the mode of salvation by Christ, and would be a renouncing of the plan of justification by grace. The two systems cannot be united. The adoption of the one is, in fact, a rejection of the other. Christ will be “a whole Savior,” or none. This passage, therefore, cannot be adduced to prove that any true Christian has in fact fallen away from grace, unless it proves also that man may be justified by the deeds of the Law, contrary to the repeated declarations of Paul himself. The word “grace” here, does not mean grace in the sense of personal religion, it means the “system” of salvation by grace, in contradistinction from that by merit or by works.”

 

Hebrews 6:4-6: “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost; And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come; If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”

It would be impossible to “renew them again unto repentance”; and impossible to crucify Christ again! This answers to the supposition, “if they shall fall away.” If God saves someone He will never have to do it again, thus saved is saved! 

Albert Barnes: “These passages show that it is not merely a great difficulty to which the apostle refers, but that he meant to say that the thing was wholly impracticable; that it could not be done. And if this be the meaning, then it proves that if those referred to should fall away, they could never be renewed. Their case was hopeless, and they must perish: that is, if a true Christian should apostatize, or fall from grace, “he never could be renewed again,” and could not be saved. Paul did not teach that he might fall away and be renewed again as often as he pleased. He had other views of the grace of God than this; and he meant to teach, that if a man should once cast off true religion, his case was hopeless, and he must perish; and by this solemn consideration - the only one that would be effectual in such a case - he meant to guard them against the danger of apostasy.”

“It is material to remark here that the apostle does not say that any true Christian ever had fallen away. He makes a statement of what would occur on the supposition that such a thing should happen - but a statement may be made of what would occur on the supposition that a certain thing should take place, and yet it be morally certain that the event never would happen. It would be easy to suppose what would happen if the ocean should overflow a continent, or if the sun should cease to rise, and still there be entire certainty that such an event never would occur.”

 

Hebrews 10:26, 27: “For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins; But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.”

This doesn’t intend that “when we sin,” but that “if we sin willfully.” For all continue to sin, but now, after being saved it is not something done as before, as a lifestyle and without repentance. Believers try to avoid sin as much as possible. If it said “when we sin,” that would make it a possibility of sinning intentionally after being saved, which is not in compliance with one remorseful and repentant. 

Verse 32-35 show they were saved (“illuminated”). Verse 35 tells them not to cast their confidence away. Verses 38 and 39 says they are of those who will not “draw back unto perdition” (damnation). If any return to their old ways it manifests they were hypocrites and apostates in their professing Christ.

Albert Barnes: “The sentiment would not be correct if it referred to any but real Christians. It would not be true that one who had been somewhat enlightened, and who then sinned “willfully,” must look on fearfully to the judgment without a possibility of being saved. There are multitudes of cases where such persons are saved. They “willfully” resist the Holy Spirit; they strive against Him; they for a long time refuse to yield, but they are brought again to reflection, and are led to give their hearts to God.”

John Gill: “After that we have received the knowledge of the truth”; either of Jesus Christ, or of the Scriptures, or of the Gospel, or of some particular doctrine, especially the principal one, salvation by Christ; of which there may be a notional knowledge, when there is no experimental knowledge; and which is received not into the heart, but into the head: and whereas the apostle speaks in the first person plural, “we,” this is used not so much with regard to himself, but others; that so what he delivered might come with greater weight upon them, and be more readily received by them; when they observed he entertained no hard thoughts or jealousies of them, which would greatly distress the minds of those that were truly gracious. Moreover, the apostles use this way of speaking, when they do not design themselves at all, but others, under the same visible profession of religion, and who belonged to the same community of believers; Besides, these words are only hypothetical, and do not prove that true believers could, or should, or do sin in this manner: to which may be added, that true believers are manifestly distinguished from these persons.”

2Pe 2:20-22: “For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”

Again, the supposition “if,” which shows no definite move to that which is proposed; and when we look at verse 22, it shows there has been no real change. Pro 26:11: “As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.” A Christian will “endure to the end” (Mat 24:13), and show he’s genuine, as apostates and hypocrites do not continue their profession. The pig was “washed” (clear conscience from an outward profession), but returned to the mire to show it’s still a pig (no repentance in the heart).

Albert Barnes: “For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world - This does not necessarily mean that they had been true Christians, and had fallen from grace. People may outwardly reform, and escape from the open corruptions which prevail around them, or which they had themselves practiced, and still have no true grace at heart.

“Through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesses Christ - Neither does this imply that they were true Christians, or that they had ever had any saving knowledge of the Redeemer. There is a knowledge of the doctrines and duties of religion which may lead sinners to abandon their outward vices, which has no connection with saving grace. They may profess religion, and may know enough of religion to understand that it requires them to abandon their vicious habits, and still never be true Christians.”

John Gill: “For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world”: The sins of it, the governing vices of it, which the men of the world are addicted to, and immersed in; for the whole world lies in wickedness, and which are of a defiling nature; these men may escape, abstain from, and outwardly reform, with respect unto, and yet be destitute of the grace of God; so that this can be no instance of the final and total apostasy of real saints; for the house may be swept and garnished with an external reformation; persons may be outwardly righteous before men, have a form of godliness and a name to live, and yet be dead in trespasses and sins.”

“Through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ”; By which "knowledge" is meant, not a spiritual experimental knowledge of Christ, for that is eternal life, the beginning, pledge, and earnest of it; but a notional knowledge of Christ, or a profession of knowledge of Him, for it may be rendered "acknowledgment"; or rather the Gospel of Christ, which, being only notionally received, may have such an effect on men, as outwardly to reform their lives, at least in some instances, and for a while, in whose hearts it has no place.”

“The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again, and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire; which expresses the filthy nature of sin, signified by vomit, mire, and dirt, than which nothing is more abominable and defiling; and also the just characters of these apostates, who are compared to dogs and swine and likewise their irreclaimable and irrecoverable state and condition, it being impossible they should be otherwise, unless their natures were changed and altered. In the Hebrew language, a "sow" is called ryzx, from the root rzx, which signifies to "return," because that creature, as soon as it is out of the mire and dirt, and is washed from its filthiness, naturally returns to it again: so such apostates return to what they were before, to their former principles and practices.”
 

[steve morrow]

???

HEBREWS 10:38  now the just shall live by faith ---but if any man drawback--- MY  soul shall have no pleasure in him 

--10:39--  but we are not of them who draw back into perdition --- but of them that believe to the saving of the soul---

MATTHEW 10:22  and you shall be hated of all men for  MY  names sake ---but he that endureth to the end shall be saved---

 

*******MATTHEW  12:37 for by thy words thou shalt be justified and by thy words ---thou shalt be condemned*******

 

*******2 THESSALONIANS 1:8  IN  FLAMING  FIRE  TAKING  VENGEANCE  ON  THEM THAT  KNOW  NOT  GOD  AND ---OBEY  NOT--- THE  GOSPEL  OF  OUR  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST *******

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST

[Guest]

9 hours ago, steve morrow said:

???

HEBREWS 10:38  now the just shall live by faith ---but if any man drawback--- MY  soul shall have no pleasure in him 

--10:39--  but we are not of them who draw back into perdition --- but of them that believe to the saving of the soul---

Those who are hypocrites and apostates will always "draw back," for it must be shown that they were never saved (1Jo 2:19). Only those who continue are truly saved.

 

[steve morrow]

JESUS  CHRIST  IS  LORD  OF  LORDS  AND  KING  OF  KINGS

 

EPHESIANS 2:9  not of works lest any man should boast 

*******PSALM 33:4   for the word of  THE  LORD  is right  ---and all  HIS  works are done in truth*******

EPHESIANS 2:8  for by grace are you saved through faith and that --not of yourselves-- it is the gift of  GOD

 

TITUS 2:11  for the grace of  GOD  that  --bringeth salvation--  hath appeared to all men

--2:12-- teaching us that  ---denying ungodliness and worldly lusts  --  we should live soberly -- righteously -- and godly -- in this present world---

 

PROVERBS 22:20  have not I written to thee excellent things in counsels and knowledge 

--22:21--  that I might make thee know the certainty of the words of truth  ---  that thou mightest  --answer the words of truth--  to them that send unto thee

 

PSALM 92:5  O LORD  how great are thy works and thy thoughts are very deep 

--92:6-- a brutish man knoweth not neither doth a fool understand this

 

ISAIAH 45:5   ---  I  AM  THE  LORD   ---  AND  THERE  IS  NONE  ELSE  ---  there is no  GOD  beside  ME  ---  I girded thee though thou hast not known  ME

ISAIAH 42:8   ---  I  AM  THE  LORD  THAT  IS  MY  NAME  ---  and  MY  glory will I not give to another neither  MY  praise to graven images 

PSALM 127:1  except  THE  LORD  build the house ---they labor in vain that build it---except  THE  LORD  keep the city the watchman waketh but in vain

 

PSALM 106:39   THUS  WERE  THEY  DEFILED  ---WITH  THEIR  OWN  WORKS  AND  WENT  A  WHORING  WITH  THEIR  OWN  INVENTIONS 

 

PSALM 145:17  THE  LORD  IS  RIGHTEOUS  IN  ALL  HIS  WAYS  AND  HOLY  IN  ALL  HIS  WORKS 

 

EPHESIANS 2:9  NOT  OF  WORKS  LEST  ANY  --MAN  SHOULD  BOAST--

 

JOHN 8:47  HE  THAT  IS  OF  GOD  HEARETH  GODS  WORDS YOU  THEREFORE  HEAR  THEM  NOT  BECAUSE  YOU  ARE  NOT  OF  GOD 

 

REVELATION 21:27  and there shall in no wise enter into it any thing anything that defileth neither whatsoever worketh abomination or maketh a lie but they which are written in the lambs book of life

REVELATION 22:18  for I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book  --if any man--  shall add unto these things  GOD  shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book

--22:19-- and if  --any man--  shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy  ---GOD  shall take away --his part-- out of the book of life -- and out of the holy city -- and from the things which are written in this book---

 

PROVERBS 11:18  the wicked worketh a deceitful work but to him ---THAT  SOWETH  RIGHTEOUSNESS---  shall be a sure reward

 

PROVERBS 8:7  for  MY  mouth shall speak truth ---and wickedness is an  --abomination--  to  MY  lips

--8:8--  all the words of  MY  mouth are in righteousness there is nothing froward or perverse in them

 

ACTS 20:32  and now brethren I commend you to  GOD  ---and to the word of --HIS-- grace---  which is able to build you up and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified 

2 CORINTHIANS 12:9  and  HE  said unto me  ---MY  grace is sufficient for thee---  for  MY  strength is made perfect in weakness most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities that the power of  CHRIST  may rest upon me 

PSALM 29:4  the voice of  THE  LORD  is powerful the voice of  THE  LORD  is full of majesty

 

PROVERBS 18:21  death and life are in the power of the tongue and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof

 

*******1 PETER 2:21  FOR  EVEN  HEREUNTO  WERE  YOU  CALLED  BECAUSE  CHRIST  ALSO  SUFFERED  FOR  US  LEAVING  US  --AN  EXAMPLE-- THAT  YOU  SHOULD  FOLLOW  HIS  STEPS*******  

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST 

 

 

 

[DPMartin]

On 8/25/2022 at 7:00 AM, WordSword said:

All of the Scriptures that appear to teach that one can become unsaved, which word isn’t actually used, are just suppositions in order to express the impossibility of being saved more than once, enforcing the desire to be saved. If the statements were true, what sense would there be in God saving someone, then eventually become lost. It would be like assuming God didn’t know they would become lost. 

 

 

Mat 10:22  And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

but Paul explains:

 

1Co 3:11  For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 
1Co 3:12  Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 
1Co 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 
1Co 3:14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 
1Co 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 

 

God knows the faithful by name, and its proved by the fire, for our God is a consuming fire.

Edited August 28, 2022 by DPMartin

[steve morrow]

BY  FIRE/GRACE

 

JEREMIAH 5:14  wherefore thus saith  THE  LORD  GOD  of hosts because you speak this word behold ---I will make  MY  words in thy mouth fire--- and this people wood ---and it shall devour them---

JEREMIAH 23:29    ---is not  MY  word like as a fire saith  THE  LORD  --  and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces

 

*******1 CORINTHIANS 3:10  according to the ---grace of  GOD---  which is given unto me as a --wise masterbuilder-- I have laid the foundation and another buildeth thereupon******* 

 

LUKE 14:27  and whosoever doth not bear his cross --and come after  ME-- cannot be MY  disciple

--14:28--  for which of you intending to build a tower  ---  sitteth not down first --and count the cost-- whether he have sufficient to finish it 

2 CORINTHIANS 12:9  and  HE  said unto me  --MY  GRACE  IS  SUFFICIENT  FOR  THEE-- for  MY  strength is made perfect in weakness --- most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities that the power of  CHRIST  may rest upon me

 

ACTS 20:32 and now brethren I commend you to  GOD  --and to the word of  HIS  grace--  which is able to build you up and to give  you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified

 

LOVING  THE  LORD  JESUS  CHRIST

[Guest]

On 8/28/2022 at 11:05 AM, DPMartin said:

Mat 10:22  And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

but Paul explains:

 

1Co 3:11  For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 
1Co 3:12  Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 
1Co 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 
1Co 3:14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 
1Co 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 

 

God knows the faithful by name, and its proved by the fire, for our God is a consuming fire.

Amen, a reward for our works is different from our gift of salvation. Myself, I believe the rewards will consist of a position of authority, according to our works of faith. The greater our faith, the greater our position; and it's not necessarily authority over others but teaching others.

Yes, He knows all who will be His, which are those whose names are in the "Book of life" (Phl 4:3; Rev 21:27). We've always been of His mind--since eternity past!

 

God's blessings to your Family!