enoob57 Posted September 27, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,291 Content Per Day: 7.99 Reputation: 21,502 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted September 27, 2022 31 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said: For one Lucifer is not an angel. Scripture says he is a man. But if he were an angel, I still would not say Jesus is subordinate to him. If I'm not mistaken, Jesus has power to cast out devil's. In fact I'd say he can cast out a legion of devil's with a single word. Ezekiel 28:14 (KJV) [14] Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 2 Corinthians 11:14 (KJV) [14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted September 27, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 27, 2022 (edited) 45 minutes ago, enoob57 said: Ezekiel 28:14 (KJV) [14] Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 2 Corinthians 11:14 (KJV) [14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. We were discussing Lucifer not Satan. Try finding Lucifer in the Bible and you will find it says he is a man. https://biblehub.com/isaiah/14-16.htm Edited September 27, 2022 by Shilohsfoal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted September 28, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,291 Content Per Day: 7.99 Reputation: 21,502 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Online Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted September 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said: We were discussing Lucifer not Satan. Try finding Lucifer in the Bible and you will find it says he is a man. https://biblehub.com/isaiah/14-16.htm Lucifer and satan are one in the same... I showed you verses where God identifies him with angelic host... no man is angelic host! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted September 28, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 28, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, enoob57 said: Lucifer and satan are one in the same... I showed you verses where God identifies him with angelic host... no man is angelic host! You showed me verses on Satan. Not Lucifer. This is about Lucifer. https://biblehub.com/isaiah/14-16.htm Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate. "Is this the man who shook the earth and made the kingdoms tremble, the man who made the world a wilderness, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home"? Edited September 28, 2022 by Shilohsfoal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted September 28, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,051 Content Per Day: 3.31 Reputation: 1,460 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted September 28, 2022 15 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said: For one Lucifer is not an angel. Scripture says he is a man. But if he were an angel, I still would not say Jesus is subordinate to him. If I'm not mistaken, Jesus has power to cast out devil's. In fact I'd say he can cast out a legion of devil's with a single word. You avoided the discussion. Bringing Lucifer's kind was not part of the discussion. Magog, Gog, Meshek and Tubal and their rank was the discussion. I countered with an hierarchy from Daniel 4. Are you letting that stand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted September 28, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,051 Content Per Day: 3.31 Reputation: 1,460 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted September 28, 2022 15 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said: For one Lucifer is not an angel. Scripture says he is a man. But if he were an angel, I still would not say Jesus is subordinate to him. If I'm not mistaken, Jesus has power to cast out devil's. In fact I'd say he can cast out a legion of devil's with a single word. The Hebrew word "man" in Isaiah 14:16 could well mean a "man". But it can also mean "male", or "maleness". But there is other evidence in Isaiah 14; 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? 18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. 19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. - How could a man be "fallen from heaven"? - How did this man weaken the nations? - How did this man ascend INTO heaven? - Which throne is his in verse 13 - Who gave it to him? - Who are the stars of God that he will transcend? - What gives him the power to "ascend above the heights of the clouds"? - If he were a man, how could he make himself higher than the angles seeing as man is made a little lower Are these ambitions of a mere man or a powerful angel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted September 28, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 28, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, AdHoc said: You avoided the discussion. Bringing Lucifer's kind was not part of the discussion. Magog, Gog, Meshek and Tubal and their rank was the discussion. I countered with an hierarchy from Daniel 4. Are you letting that stand? You are the one who brought Lucifer into the discussion , not me. You claiming lucifer is an angel, which he is not. Edited September 28, 2022 by Shilohsfoal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted September 28, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 28, 2022 1 hour ago, AdHoc said: The Hebrew word "man" in Isaiah 14:16 could well mean a "man". But it can also mean "male", or "maleness". But there is other evidence in Isaiah 14; 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? 18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. 19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. - How could a man be "fallen from heaven"? - How did this man weaken the nations? - How did this man ascend INTO heaven? - Which throne is his in verse 13 - Who gave it to him? - Who are the stars of God that he will transcend? - What gives him the power to "ascend above the heights of the clouds"? - If he were a man, how could he make himself higher than the angles seeing as man is made a little lower Are these ambitions of a mere man or a powerful angel? Lucifer never ascends into heaven. Read it again and again if you need to. The scriptures says that Lucifer said in his heart "I will ascend to heaven". The king of Babylon never ascends to heaven and he never becomes like the Most High. You make that man more than he is. He will lay on the ground like dung. People will look down on his rotting corpse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted September 28, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,051 Content Per Day: 3.31 Reputation: 1,460 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted September 28, 2022 18 hours ago, AdHoc said: On 9/27/2022 at 5:42 PM, Shilohsfoal said: According to scripture, Gog is chief prince of Meshek and Tubal. But according to you, Meshek and Tubal are part of Christs kingdom where Christ reigns and Christ is king of Meshek and Tubal. If Christ is king of Meshek and Tubal, then how did Gog suddenly become the chief prince? 1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said: You are the one who brought Lucifer into the discussion , not me. You claimingucifer is an angel, which he is not. O.K. I'll remove Lucifer. Here is my posting again without Lucifer. I don't remember saying this, but if you mean that I infer it - then yes. I can live with that reasoning. Here is another. In Daniel 4 the most powerful and ruthless king who ever lived, the one that God Himself designates as gold, Nebuchadnezzar is said by scripture ... 22 It is thou, O king, that art grown and become strong: for thy greatness is grown, and reacheth unto heaven, and thy dominion to the end of the earth. (Da 4:22) But in verse 25 scripture records ... ... till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will. In the same way you propose Christ as King over Meshek and Tubal with Gog the chief Prince of Meshek and Tubal, I propose Nebuchadnezzar as chief prince over a "dominion to the end of the earth". That is, according to rank, God is only one place higher than Nebuchadnezzar. My proposal is that Christ's worldwide Kingdom can have a local rebellion. the result is that Christ subdues it. God exercised dominion over the earth but Nebuchadnezzar "to the end of the earth". This does not mean that God's dominion was invalid. Christ will rule the whole earth. Magog and company are a local rebellion within that rule. The rebellion is shortlived because Christ Kingdom prevails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted September 28, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,051 Content Per Day: 3.31 Reputation: 1,460 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted September 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said: Lucifer never ascends into heaven. Read it again and again if you need to. The scriptures says that Lucifer said in his heart "I will ascend to heaven". The king of Babylon never ascends to heaven and he never becomes like the Most High. You make that man more than he is. He will lay on the ground like dung. People will look down on his rotting corpse. O.K. You win that point. What about the others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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