Son's of Abraham

[JohnR7]

Genesis 17:19 But God replied, “Your wife Sarah will indeed bear you a son, and you are to name him Isaac. I will establish My covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. 20 As for Ishmael, I have heard you, and I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and multiply him greatly. He will become the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. 21 But I will establish My covenant with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you at this time next year."

We read in Philippians 2:2 "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind."

In Paul's letter to the Philippians it is easy to miss that Paul talks about the Church at Philippi being united in four different areas. Likeminded, same love, one accord, one mind. I can list 200 scriptures that teach us what it means to have the Mind of Christ. It would take a whole book, or maybe a whole dictionary of words to explain the mind of Christ. 

What I am wondering, and this IS a question. Does God expect the descendants of the son's of Abraham: Isaac & Ishmael - to be united together as one? After all, the New Jerusalem is 1500 by 1500 by 1500 miles. This is the entire Arab Continental plate. 

Heaven would not be heaven if we did not all love each other. If we were not all of one mind and one accord. I think most will agree that male and female, black and white, Hebrew and Arab will all be united together and in agreement in Heaven. There will not be nuclear weapons and implements of war there as we have here. Or even the thousand-year reign of Christ. 

I remember Corrie Tan Boon talks about a time she ran into one of the worst guards at the death camp she was imprisoned in Germany. This was where her sister had died. He asked her: "do you forgive me..." He said he knew that God forgave him for his cruelty or what God would call injustice. We call crimes against humanity. She did not forgive him, but over time she did, because God does a work of forgiveness in us. 

Today there is a lot of conflict between the Hebrew and the Arab or Muslim. Are they going to have to get along if they want to go to Heaven. I have been lead to believe everyone loves everyone in Heaven. You just do not get in if you can not or do not love everyone. Black and white, male and female, Hebrew and Arab. 

Edited September 22, 2022 by JohnR7
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[tim_from_pa]

First of all, just so that you know where I'm coming from, I'm going to answer from earth's perspective since the Kingdom is coming here.  Heaven is coming to earth and ultimately a new heaven and earth, so this is the abode of mankind.  That's what was created for man, that's what was marred by sin, and that's what is to be restored.

Ishmael was multiplied greatly just because they were the seed of Abraham and that was God's promise to become the Father of many nations.  However, technically speaking, that is not the route that birthright passage went.  It went through Isaac as you noted, then Jacob (over Esau who likewise inherited land from God) and finally the sons of Joseph.  So, I'm saying this was a side benefit to appease Abraham due to his faith.  God (IMO) would have still been good to His promises if he would have made nations through Isaac, Jacob and finally Ephraim as the promise went.  So if you mean united as Israel nationally, the answer is no.  If you mean united in the Kingdom, the answer is yes.  There are no shortage of verses that say this e.g. Isaiah 19:23-24, and in the millennium all nations will come to Jerusalem to worship the Lord.  In Revelation the Tree of Life is for the healing of the nations.  So even at the very end there is an indication of national identity.  

In short, there are the chosen people of the Kingdom for the purpose of including all in that Kingdom. So there's national separateness, but unity.  Keep this thing in mind, too.  When one talks about "race" or "nations" one is basically talking about a genealogical family line each with specific promises.  And again, when one is in Christ, one becomes (by the new birth) of the race of Christ where there is no male or female, bond or free, etc etc  They both work together as the new birth corrects the fallen nature, but not the lineage in which when one thinks of it originated from God for a purpose anyway (c.f. Luke's genealogy). After all, Jesus Christ is still from the tribe of Judah despite being born again himself. 

[AdHoc]

1 hour ago, JohnR7 said:

Genesis 17:19 But God replied, “Your wife Sarah will indeed bear you a son, and you are to name him Isaac. I will establish My covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. 20 As for Ishmael, I have heard you, and I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and multiply him greatly. He will become the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. 21 But I will establish My covenant with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you at this time next year."

We read in Philippians 2:2 "Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind."

In Paul's letter to the Philippians it is easy to miss that Paul talks about the Church at Philippi being united in four different areas. Likeminded, same love, one accord, one mind. I can list 200 scriptures that teach us what it means to have the Mind of Christ. It would take a whole book, or maybe a whole dictionary of words to explain the mind of Christ. 

What I am wondering, and this IS a question. Does God expect the descendants of the son's of Abraham: Isaac & Ishmael - to be united together as one? After all, the New Jerusalem is 1500 by 1500 by 1500 miles. This is the entire Arab Continental plate. 

Heaven would not be heaven if we did not all love each other. If we were not all of one mind and one accord. I think most will agree that male and female, black and white, Hebrew and Arab will all be united together and in agreement in Heaven. There will not be nuclear weapons and implements of war there as we have here. Or even the thousand-year reign of Christ. 

I remember Corrie Tan Boon talks about a time she ran into one of the worst guards at the death camp she was imprisoned in Germany. This was where her sister had died. He asked her: "do you forgive me..." He said he knew that God forgave him for his cruelty or what God would call injustice. We call crimes against humanity. She did not forgive him, but over time she did, because God does a work of forgiveness in us. 

Today there is a lot of conflict between the Hebrew and the Arab or Muslim. Are they going to have to get along if they want to go to Heaven. I have been lead to believe everyone loves everyone in Heaven. You just do not get in if you can not or do not love everyone. Black and white, male and female, Hebrew and Arab. 

My answer is that there is no call for unity.

The admonishment to the Philippians was to a Church. Only born again believers are admonished to be "of one mind WITH EACH OTHER". All Christians are commanded to be a VARIANCE with the rest of the world.

Israel are commanded in their Law not to have relations with the other Nations. Some Nations are forbidden even to the tenth generation to join Israel. With the Amelakites was was declared "from generation to generation". It was God Who divided Israel after Solomon.

It was God, Who at Babel, caused the Nations to separate and not understand each other.

There is no universal brotherhood. God is Father to the Church. He is God the Law-giver and Judge to Israel, and He is Judge to the other Nations.

In the Millennial Kingdom, some of the Church will rule as co-kings with Christ. They will be royalty. Israel will be ruled by Christ, David and the Twelve Apostles, but be under the Law of the New Covenant. Since no jot or tittle is removed, they will have no relations with the Nations except to teach them God's precepts. The Nations will stick to their God-given borders.

On New Earth we have New Jerusalem. The separation of Christian, Israelite and Gentile is marked. The Church is the Walls, Israel is the Gates, The Nations are divided into two outside the city. Only some of them may enter the city.

I think universal unity is not called for except in the Church.

God keeps a Curtain between Himself and men. Only in Christ is there full reconciliation (maybe only 1% of men).

Dividedness is the order ofthe day, now, and in future.

[JohnR7]

1 hour ago, tim_from_pa said:

After all, Jesus Christ is still from the tribe of Judah despite being born again himself. 

That is confusing because "Jew" or "Jewish" is slang for Judah. Jesus was of the tribe of Judah because he was a descendant of David and this is where the kingdom comes from David. That also is difficult to understand because KINGS were not God's plan. It was the people that said they wanted a King. 

1Samual 8:5 “Look,” they said, “you are old, and your sons do not walk in your ways. Now appoint a king to judge us like all the other nations.” 6 But when they said, “Give us a king to judge us,” their demand was displeasing in the sight of Samuel; so he prayed to the LORD. 7 And the LORD said to Samuel, “Listen to the voice of the people in all that they say to you. For it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected Me as their king."

I just wonder what about the other 11 tribes. We hear about them in Revelation. For example, in the New Jerusalem. Also, we have the 144,000 with 12,000 from each tribe. Some say they will give witness and testimony for God during the tribulation period. 

"It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel".  (Revelation 21:12)

[JohnR7]

23 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

The admonishment to the Philippians was to a Church. Only born again believers are admonished to be "of one mind WITH EACH OTHER". All Christians are commanded to be a VARIANCE with the rest of the world.

A lot of churches say the Lord's prayer every Sunday. "Thy Kingdom Come, Thy Will Be Done, On Earth as it is in Heaven". The Church is to be an example for the world. This is and has been the Church Age for almost 2,000 years. Even Jesus teaches us we are to love our enemy and return good to those who intend evil for us. This is why people like the Quakers and Amish will not fight wars.  

My understanding is that mainline Muslims are not terrorists. Although the polls show us that a high percentage of Muslims agree with terrorism. The idea that they can blow people up and go to Heaven and have virgins waiting for them. Or the idea that they can buy and sell wives, which some people consider to be sex slaves. 

During the Kingdom Age or the 1,000 year reign of Christ, we are suppose to have 1,000 years of peace. When the lion will lay down with the lamb and a child will lead them. All my life I have seen Christmas cards saying "The Government will rest on His Shoulder". Isaiah 9:6

[JohnR7]

43 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

It was God, Who at Babel, caused the Nations to separate and not understand each other.

I think that is still true for the church today. There are so many divisions because God does not want us in agreement. Genesis 11:6 “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them

This is what the Law of Attraction people believe. Nothing is impossible for those who believe. They can manifest anything. 

The one language is Hebrew, and there is extreme resistance to learn Hebrew. I cannot even get people to understand that letters have a symbolic meaning. I think during the kingdom age, people will need to know that before they can begin the first grade in school. Biden has a plan where the government will pay for 2 years of preschool to prepare children for the first grade. 

Anyways, Tks, you do a good job of answering my question. 

[JohnR7]

59 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Only in Christ is there full reconciliation (maybe only 1% of men).

That is about right. 1/3 are saved, but they do not represent God. 10% maybe represent God, and we would be hard-pressed to find 1% who live the life Jesus lived as an example to others. The qualification for pastors and teachers. 

"Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly." James 3:1

This third I will put into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name and I will answer them; I will say, ‘They are my people,’ and they will say, ‘The LORD is our God.’” Zechariah 13:9

After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. Revelation 7:9

Edited September 22, 2022 by JohnR7

[ayin jade]

The law of attraction is not scriptural. It is a new thought philosophy that has nothing to do with Christ.

Muslims, no matter how nice any of them may be, do not believe in Jesus as the bible teaches Him to be. Without that salvational belief in Him, they are not saved. So they will not be in heaven.

[AdHoc]

8 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

A lot of churches say the Lord's prayer every Sunday. "Thy Kingdom Come, Thy Will Be Done, On Earth as it is in Heaven". The Church is to be an example for the world. This is and has been the Church Age for almost 2,000 years. Even Jesus teaches us we are to love our enemy and return good to those who intend evil for us. This is why people like the Quakers and Amish will not fight wars.  

My understanding is that mainline Muslims are not terrorists. Although the polls show us that a high percentage of Muslims agree with terrorism. The idea that they can blow people up and go to Heaven and have virgins waiting for them. Or the idea that they can buy and sell wives, which some people consider to be sex slaves. 

During the Kingdom Age or the 1,000 year reign of Christ, we are suppose to have 1,000 years of peace. When the lion will lay down with the lamb and a child will lead them. All my life I have seen Christmas cards saying "The Government will rest on His Shoulder". Isaiah 9:6

All you say is true, but it did not address universal brotherhood or supra-national unity. Rather, it shows schism. But https://worthychristianforums-h45go6maxh5rpepgu.netdna-ssl.com/uploads/emoticons/default_amen.gif, look at us two. We can disagree but eh unity of the Spirit is kept. And this is the message of Ephesians Chapter 4. Maintain the unity already crated by the Holy Spirit through lowliness. Then allows the gifted and inspired ones to function. And soon (maybe 20 years) we'll have unity of our common faith.

 

Go well bro.

Edited September 22, 2022 by AdHoc

[AdHoc]

7 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

I think that is still true for the church today. There are so many divisions because God does not want us in agreement. Genesis 11:6 “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them

This is what the Law of Attraction people believe. Nothing is impossible for those who believe. They can manifest anything. 

The one language is Hebrew, and there is extreme resistance to learn Hebrew. I cannot even get people to understand that letters have a symbolic meaning. I think during the kingdom age, people will need to know that before they can begin the first grade in school. Biden has a plan where the government will pay for 2 years of preschool to prepare children for the first grade. 

Anyways, Tks, you do a good job of answering my question. 

While I represented a case of disunity among religious groups, I believe the Church should be one.

John 17:11, 21-23

11. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

....

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.