Witnessing to Jewish people

[JohnD]

6 hours ago, Slibhin said:

Messianic Jews do not follow the Talmud, they do not follow Jewish laws and do not follow the 613 mitzvot. You saying you're Jewish is like someone claiming to be a Christian, except they don't follow the bible, don't believe in Jesus and follow Muhammad. If it gives you any sense of fairness, I also don't consider reformed or Conservative Jews to be really Jewish either.

And as I have repeated to your repeated refrain...

Jeremiah (Yirimyahu) 31:31-34 / 31:30-33

States that the New Covenant is not like the Old Covenant (Torah) or the 613 mitzvot / Talmud but is rather the Covenant of eternal forgiveness by knowing YHVH personally and having his instruction in our hearts.

 

[JohnD]

6 hours ago, Slibhin said:

I have seen people on this very forum reject Jehovahs Witnesses, Mormons, Catholics and 7th Day Adventists because they hold views out of mainstream Christianity. I reject Messianic Jews for the same reasons you reject those groups as Christians.

Ah, but said rejection is based on the entirety of scripture (Tanakh / B'rit Hadasha). Your rejection is based on a narrow view of Torah supplemented by the traditions of Talmud and halacha.

 

[JohnD]

6 hours ago, Slibhin said:

In terms of "Witnessing to Jews",

I have a thread in the video section that clearly explains why we don't believe in Jesus.

Based, again on the narrow view of Torah and ignoring Yirimyahu 31:30-33 clearly in Tanakh.

Zechariah 6:12-13 (the priest on a throne) tsk tsk, according to the narrow view you espouse Levites don't rule and Judahites can't be priests.

Your video only explains that you don't want to believe in Jesus and you cite debatable reasons / verses at best.

I also repeat that if there be no merit to Christian / Messianic Jewish claims there why are there so many Messianic Jewish / Christian verses in your own Tanakh?

[JohnD]

6 hours ago, Slibhin said:

Messianic prophecy and the requirements to be the Messiah are very clear in Judaism. You want to convince me, then do so by showing how he fits those requirements. Instead people try to mangle the prophecies to fit Jesus... that's not how it works.

Okay. I'll repeat it once again.

1. Yeshua paid the sin debt (Daniel 9:26 / Isaiah 52:13 - 53:12) making world peace with God

2. This is the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-34) for both the house of Israel and the house of Judah (to unite the Jewish people)

3. Yeshua is the Covenant bringer Moshe was (Deuteronomy 18:15) and to HIM Moshe said we must hear!

4. Yeshua is the netzer of Jesse (Isaiah 11:1) builder of the Temple of God (Zechariah 6:12-13).

5. Yeshua is the seed of the woman (Genesis 3:15 / Isaiah 7:14) God with us (Isaiah 9:6) born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2)

6. Born and lived and died and rose again before the destruction of the second Temple (Daniel 9:25-26)

The list is lengthy, but you typically claim it's not in Hebrew or quoted from Tanakh (which I have also repeatedly supplied), or you say it doesn't mean  whatever or you jump on me for repeating these facts.

So, I'm hopeful you'll see the light. But I lose no sleep over it.

It's your choice.

[JohnD]

6 hours ago, Slibhin said:

You failed to do that and refused to listen to me, and the other few just insulted me so shocker I'm unconvinced

 

I have heard your objections many times long before our exchanges.

I have answered the main ones and pointed out how your own Tanakh is where the doctrines of Messianic Judaism and Christianity come from.

You are entitled to disbelieve anything you choose.

But that does not make what you do not believe untrue.

[JohnD]

I want to thank Slibhin for providing a small sample of the resistance a Messianic Jew or Christian will encounter when witnessing to Jewish people who refuse to believe Yeshua Jesus is the Promised Messiah.

Believe me, she was and has been very polite about it.

Witnessing to Jewish people can get very ugly, and Slibhin has not been that way to my knowledge.

Anyone who cannot reason with her without being insulting to her is not being a good witness for Jesus.

I may get insistent at times, but I also respect Slibhin's and anyone's choice. If for no other reason, because God does.

[kwikphilly]

6 hours ago, Slibhin said:

Uh, that's total bull. If you are Jewish and become an atheist, agnostic or anything outside Orthodox Judaism then you are an apostate. Under Jewish law, once you are Jewish you're never not Jewish. So hypothetically if you converted to Judaism and then went on to become a Christian you're still considered Jewish, but an apostate. And if you are born Jewish then you are always a Jew, again you are considered an apostate if you leave. It would help to actually consult a Jewish person about how Jewish law works instead of making baseless claims.

Wow I never typed Jewish so many times on one paragraph.

A baiting thread, but I'll bite.

If you were born to a Jewish mother then you are Jewish by birth. Most "Messianic" Jews were never Jewish by birth or belief and simply converted to "Messianic" Judaism. If you believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah, then you are not Jewish you are a Christian.

Messianic Jews do not follow the Talmud, they do not follow Jewish laws and do not follow the 613 mitzvot. You saying you're Jewish is like someone claiming to be a Christian, except they don't follow the bible, don't believe in Jesus and follow Muhammad. If it gives you any sense of fairness, I also don't consider reformed or Conservative Jews to be really Jewish either.

I have seen people on this very forum reject Jehovahs Witnesses, Mormons, Catholics and 7th Day Adventists because they hold views out of mainstream Christianity. I reject Messianic Jews for the same reasons you reject those groups as Christians.

In fact, the only thing I see Messianic Jews do that is in any way similar to Judaism is they hold services in Hebrew. Whoop dee doo.

In terms of "Witnessing to Jews",

I have a thread in the video section that clearly explains why we don't believe in Jesus. Everyone here is of course free to disagree with me and the rabbi's, but your disagreement does not negate our reasoning and points of view. I have invited you and anyone who cares to explain to me how Jesus fulfills the requirements to be the Jewish Messiah. You failed to do that and refused to listen to me, and the other few just insulted me so shocker I'm unconvinced. Rather then engage in the discussion I just get accused of being in denial, having sinister motives and listen to anti-Semitic attacks on the honour of the rabbi's.

Messianic prophecy and the requirements to be the Messiah are very clear in Judaism. You want to convince me, then do so by showing how he fits those requirements. Instead people try to mangle the prophecies to fit Jesus... that's not how it works.

Hi Slibhin

To be perfectly honest with you something that really annoys me is when any Born Again Christian tries to " convince" anyone of WHO Jesus IS....and I don't care if the person they are trying to " convince" is christian of any denomination who is not Born Again,muslim,jew,atheist or agnostic ...there are only 2 kinda of people on this earth,Believers & unbelievers..   unless ones spirit is made Alive then they are dead ,they cannot have a Relationship with God in Christ Jesus

 The " convince" someone thing is for religious people imo,I don't care what religion they follow.  It's either about Laws,Traditions or customs they squabble over and debate. A Born Again Believer is in RELATIONSHIP because our Redeemer Lives!

You see,according to the religion you follow you are waiting for a Messiah( right?),according to a Muslim they follow what a man told them to do & he is dead,let's take a catholic too,they pray to a dead woman claiming she'll mediate to her son.... the agnostic has no clue what to believe in,a Hindu has many gods,the more the merrier and jw's believe Jesus is an angel( more or less)- sda are bound by laws

So why would a Born Again Believer try to convince any unbeliever of WHO Jesus IS,not was but IS,He Lives & I can only Introduce you to Him if you sincerely wanted to meet Him.I can point the Way but God Does not need me to defend Him & try to convince anyone of WHO He Is- that Belief & Understanding Can only be Received by a repentant heart,a willing repentant heart

A true Christian does not reject anyone- what is " mainstream Christianity"? If a catholic goes to catholic church on Sunday,takes ashes on Ash Wednesday & gives up pizza for lent but has been Born of Spirit after meeting Jesus then HALLELUYAH! If a Jew goes to synagogue on Saturdays but has been Born of Spirit then HALLELUYAH!  But in reality,they are only " convinced " by Holy Spirit,not anyone else

We are just the Messengers,we can't make anyone see,hear or understand- if the heart is hardened against the Word they just won't listen & Faith Comes by hearing the Word of God.....

So Slibhin,if I were to show you the Scriptures that show Jesus Fulfilled the Law & the Prophets you are already "convinced"that He Did not- why would I try to convince you otherwise? If you were Convicted you would ask& then Holy Spirit Will Testify 

With love in Christ,Kwik

 

 

[kwikphilly]

2 minutes ago, Slibhin said:

Yes, If I already believed it would be much easier to convince me wouldn't it?

I'm not trying to convince anyone here that I'm right. Jew's do not try to convert people because we don't believe someone has to be Jewish to "go to heaven".

I'm the one certain people are trying to convince and yes the burden of proof is high. What you guys espouse about Jesus is, in my view and the view of Orthodox Jews, inconsistent with Messianic prophecy. Anyone's free to state their case, but that doesn't mean state what you think and get mad when I don't immediately agree. If what you say is not consistent with the Tanakh I'm going to bring it up and then you are free to further elaborate or retort. That's how a discussion works.

I'm well aware of how a discussion works.And I'm certainly free to elaborate or retort but I rarely would if I don't believe a person is here to Receive. I'd never get mad if you disagree,it's your perogative and like I said,I don't believe you are here to Receive anything I have to offer.... All I offer is the Gospel of Jesus Christ    

In many threads I say " hi, been a while" or " nice to see you" & it's basically ignored by you but you are free to respond or dismiss. Imo thats not how a discussion works but hey,that's just me.

Yep,I'm not here to convert anyone either,I cannot,it's not my job.I preach Jesus and not to believers but anyone- just people seeking God,Forgiveness,Redemption.

I suppose you're being facetious in saying if you already believed you'd be easier to convince ....

My point is I don't really understand the point of all the categorization " Why Jews do this" or " What Messianic Jews  believe "& stuff like that.... I don't believe God Cares what groups people put themselves in,He Sees each one individually,so why can't everyone else.Whats the difference what " they" do when you get down to it,each person will either be Convicted or they will not.

Do you see my point? Do you think this thread is about you,I didnt-I don't.However I do know my Brothers & Sisters do care about unbelievers 

I do have a question for you since you mentioned " Jews Believe"..... You said "we" don't believe you have to be Jewish to go to Heaven.

So who gets to Heaven,how does one get to Heaven?

 

 

[Jedi4Yahweh]

8 hours ago, Slibhin said:

You are more than invited to PM me if you want to shoot the breeze. I have always noticed when you said hi, I just should have acknowledged it. That's my bad.

We have what is called the seven laws of Moses, or the Noahide laws.

Don't worship idols

Don't curse G-d

Don't murder

Don't be a sexual deviant/adulterer

Don't steal

Don't be cruel to animals

Be just/have just courts

Those are the only requirements for a non-Jew.

Where in the Torah does God state these requirements for non-Jews?

One law shall be to him that is homeborn [Israel], and unto the stranger [foreigner] that sojourneth among you. - Exo 12:49 KJV

God makes it clear there is only one law for Jew and foreigner.

[kwikphilly]

12 hours ago, Slibhin said:

You are more than invited to PM me if you want to shoot the breeze. I have always noticed when you said hi, I just should have acknowledged it. That's my bad.

We have what is called the seven laws of Moses, or the Noahide laws.

Don't worship idols

Don't curse G-d

Don't murder

Don't be a sexual deviant/adulterer

Don't steal

Don't be cruel to animals

Be just/have just courts

Those are the only requirements for a non-Jew.

Thank Slibhin for answering my question but most of all for the invitation😀I just might take you up on it &no worries,you've acknowledged " that" now.   Works for me!

Yes,it'd be nice to shoot the breeze,I extend the same open door to you

With love in Christ,Kwik