IF 'the dead' DEAD are not resurrected, who are we to rule and reign over for the 1000 years.

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

6 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Lots for me to go check out.  Never heard of the 70 day thing, and don't remember about a person under Christ....should keep me busy.  Resurrection, well, that's a whole different subject,  letting that go.  Thank you and I will be back with some questions I'm sure.  

The 70 day thing comes from Daniel 12:11-13. It says the abomination of desolation which occurs at the time of the great tribulation. Revelation says this will last 42 months,  which Daniel also confirms as 1290 days.  However it mentions that those who make it to the 1335th day is blessed.  My apologies.  I guess it's a 45 day gap, not 70. I misspoke earlier.  This 1335th day has been seen as the official start of the Millennium. So it's possible there is a 45 day gap between the end of the tribulation and the start of the Millennium.  What this gap is for is open to speculation.  Personally I think it will be for the renewal of the earth from the scorched battle of Armageddon into an Edenic paradise & for the construction of the Millennial Temple. 

[DeighAnn]

47 minutes ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

The 70 day thing comes from Daniel 12:11-13. It says the abomination of desolation which occurs at the time of the great tribulation. Revelation says this will last 42 months,  which Daniel also confirms as 1290 days.  However it mentions that those who make it to the 1335th day is blessed.  My apologies.  I guess it's a 45 day gap, not 70. I misspoke earlier.  This 1335th day has been seen as the official start of the Millennium. So it's possible there is a 45 day gap between the end of the tribulation and the start of the Millennium.  What this gap is for is open to speculation.  Personally I think it will be for the renewal of the earth from the scorched battle of Armageddon into an Edenic paradise & for the construction of the Millennial Temple. 

 

One of the first things I do when I wish to learn something new,  besides ask God, is to type out the chapter in the Hebrew or Greek order the words are given.  Helps me 'hear' but doesn't allow me to really think.

Daniel 12

1.  And at time that shall stand up Michael the prince great who stands over the sons of your people and there shall be a time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation  to time that and at time that shall be delivered your people everyone who is found written in the book 

2 And many of those who sleep of the earth in the dust shall awake these to life everlasting and these to shame contempt everlasting

3  And Those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament and those who turn to righteousness many like the stars forever and ever

4  But you Daniel shut up the words and seal the book until the time of the end,  shall run to and fro many,  and shall increase knowledge

5  And looked I Daniel and there two others stood one on this bank of the river and one on that bank of the river

6  And said to the man clothed in linen who on above the waters of the river until when shall the fulfillment of these wonders

7  And I heard the man clothed in linen who on above the waters of the river and when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven and swore by Him who lives forever that for a time times and half
and when has been completely shattered the power of the people holy shall be finished all these.  

so maybe here  or

8  And although I heard and not I did understand and I said My lord what the end of these 

9  And he said to Daniel for closed up and sealed the words, till the time of the end

10  Shall be purified and made white and refined many,  but shall do wickedly the wicked, and none shall understand all of the wicked,  but the wise shall understand

11  And from the time is taken away the daily and is set up the abomination of desolation days a thousand two hundred and ninety

Do you see this as the setting up of the image to be WORSHIPPED?  I was thinking that these 'days' might be the setting into place the system to buy and sell by worshipping the image which would definitely END the DAILY SACRIFICE or worship that goes to GOD... 

 

12  Blessed he who waits and comes to the days A thousand three hundred thirty and five

maybe here
Which would be when the two witnesses are killed, and the earth made ready for the new temple  I could go with here at the end or at the 'mid point'.   Right now I don't think it matters as far as anything else is concerned so...until that point either way works for me. 

13  But you go till the end for you shall rest and will arise to you inheritance at the end of the days
 

 

It is strange how it just in there like that...like one of those 'here a little there a littles' that you don't get to know till later,  but when you do,  it opens up a whole bunch of other stuff.   I look at it as a practice in patience...

 

[JohnD]

IF 'the dead' DEAD are not resurrected, who are we to rule and reign over for the 1000 years.

First of all, we must dismiss our concept of ruling and reigning. Jesus came as King of the Jews (Matthew 2:2) and yet:

Philippians 2:5–8 (KJV)
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Jesus, the Greatest among us, made himself the least among men (Isaiah 52:13 - 53:12).

In God's economy, leadership and authority are more about taking responsibility than privilege. Doing the menial rather than having others bow before you.

That being said:

We are the Kingdom of Priests of God on Earth now.

Revelation 1:6 (KJV)
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10 (KJV)
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

1 Peter 2:3–9 (KJV)
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

This is to fulfill what God sought in Exodus 19:6 but did not realize until the cross.

Exodus 19:6 (KJV)
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

It was God's plan from the beginning that the entire nation be his priests. But Exodus 32 changed that. To sum up, Exodus 32 was not just an orgy / calf idol worship event, but a hard stop to God's plans and and undoing of all God had done up to that point in that the people rebelled and were about to return to Egypt. It is recorded in Numbers 14:1-4 which is a later date, but it follows logically that had God and Moses not intervened, there was no other course for action in Exodus 32. They had nowhere else to go on their own.

This is why the slaughter was so great and how it was decided that the Levites would be the priestly tribe. They are the one who came to Moses' aid. Thus establishing the Old Covenant clergy / laity distinction. Which is NOT New Covenant theology (the verses I quoted above).

The Thousand Year Reign:

Revelation 20 is misquoted in that chillioi in the Greek is a plural word meaning thousands not one thousand years.

We are in that particular "thousand year reign" and have been for nearly two thousand years now. Nearing the time of the end when the devil will be released from the abyss (where he has been since Judas his human host took his life over the crucifixion of Christ) ← which he tried to stop once he realized it was God's plan for victory over sin and death... the remorse was just an act to try to stop what God planned all along and the devil played right into God's hand...

[DeighAnn]

2 hours ago, JohnD said:

First of all, we must dismiss our concept of ruling and reigning. Jesus came as King of the Jews (Matthew 2:2) and yet:

First of all, we need to correctly identify who Jesus SAID HE came for, not who others SAID He came as

1. Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.


REIGNING is ruling

REVELATION 20
6  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.



 AND JUDGING is ruling

1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

 
"Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way." Romans 14:13 KJV


 WHAT IS WRITTEN IS ruling and reigning.  

3 hours ago, JohnD said:

We are in that particular "thousand year reign" and have been for nearly two thousand years now.

So now, 1000 years is no longer 1000 years?   You must be kidding me. 

Are you saying that Christ is sitting on the throne of David?  That He is ruling with a rod of Iron and Satan has been bound?  That all the kingdoms of the world have become His?  That I am living in the kingdom of Heaven, here on earth, right now?  

If your answer is yes, please let us just end this conversation here because that conversation will not be a good one.  
 

[Your closest friendnt]

4 hours ago, JohnD said:

IF 'the dead' DEAD are not resurrected, who are we to rule and reign over for the 1000 years.

First of all, we must dismiss our concept of ruling and reigning. Jesus came as King of the Jews (Matthew 2:2) and yet:

Philippians 2:5–8 (KJV)
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Jesus, the Greatest among us, made himself the least among men (Isaiah 52:13 - 53:12).

In God's economy, leadership and authority are more about taking responsibility than privilege. Doing the menial rather than having others bow before you.

That being said:

We are the Kingdom of Priests of God on Earth now.

Revelation 1:6 (KJV)
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10 (KJV)
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

1 Peter 2:3–9 (KJV)
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

This is to fulfill what God sought in Exodus 19:6 but did not realize until the cross.

Exodus 19:6 (KJV)
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

It was God's plan from the beginning that the entire nation be his priests. But Exodus 32 changed that. To sum up, Exodus 32 was not just an orgy / calf idol worship event, but a hard stop to God's plans and and undoing of all God had done up to that point in that the people rebelled and were about to return to Egypt. It is recorded in Numbers 14:1-4 which is a later date, but it follows logically that had God and Moses not intervened, there was no other course for action in Exodus 32. They had nowhere else to go on their own.

This is why the slaughter was so great and how it was decided that the Levites would be the priestly tribe. They are the one who came to Moses' aid. Thus establishing the Old Covenant clergy / laity distinction. Which is NOT New Covenant theology (the verses I quoted above).

The Thousand Year Reign:

Revelation 20 is misquoted in that chillioi in the Greek is a plural word meaning thousands not one thousand years.

We are in that particular "thousand year reign" and have been for nearly two thousand years now. Nearing the time of the end when the devil will be released from the abyss (where he has been since Judas his human host took his life over the crucifixion of Christ) ← which he tried to stop once he realized it was God's plan for victory over sin and death... the remorse was just an act to try to stop what God planned all along and the devil played right into God's hand...

Jesus reigns foru

[Selah7]

4 hours ago, JohnD said:

Revelation 5:10 (KJV)
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Hey there, John.  The way I understand it, this 5th chapter is referring to John’s vision of the “Day of the Lord.”  This Day is the final Day of the flesh period and the first day of the Millennium. This is the Day that Jesus Christ returns to set up His millennial kingdom on earth.  Timeline-wise, the tribulation will be over and Satan will be in the pit at this time. As I understand it, God's elect will be reigning with Christ during this time.

Selah

Edited October 31, 2022 by Selah7

[Your closest friendnt]

10 hours ago, JohnD said:

IF 'the dead' DEAD are not resurrected, who are we to rule and reign over for the 1000 years.

First of all, we must dismiss our concept of ruling and reigning. Jesus came as King of the Jews (Matthew 2:2) and yet:

Philippians 2:5–8 (KJV)
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Jesus, the Greatest among us, made himself the least among men (Isaiah 52:13 - 53:12).

In God's economy, leadership and authority are more about taking responsibility than privilege. Doing the menial rather than having others bow before you.

That being said:

We are the Kingdom of Priests of God on Earth now.

Revelation 1:6 (KJV)
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10 (KJV)
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

1 Peter 2:3–9 (KJV)
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

This is to fulfill what God sought in Exodus 19:6 but did not realize until the cross.

Exodus 19:6 (KJV)
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

It was God's plan from the beginning that the entire nation be his priests. But Exodus 32 changed that. To sum up, Exodus 32 was not just an orgy / calf idol worship event, but a hard stop to God's plans and and undoing of all God had done up to that point in that the people rebelled and were about to return to Egypt. It is recorded in Numbers 14:1-4 which is a later date, but it follows logically that had God and Moses not intervened, there was no other course for action in Exodus 32. They had nowhere else to go on their own.

This is why the slaughter was so great and how it was decided that the Levites would be the priestly tribe. They are the one who came to Moses' aid. Thus establishing the Old Covenant clergy / laity distinction. Which is NOT New Covenant theology (the verses I quoted above).

The Thousand Year Reign:

Revelation 20 is misquoted in that chillioi in the Greek is a plural word meaning thousands not one thousand years.

We are in that particular "thousand year reign" and have been for nearly two thousand years now. Nearing the time of the end when the devil will be released from the abyss (where he has been since Judas his human host took his life over the crucifixion of Christ) ← which he tried to stop once he realized it was God's plan for victory over sin and death... the remorse was just an act to try to stop what God planned all along and the devil played right into God's hand...

Stephen said he show Jesus sited on the Throne on God's right..and he said "God has made Jesus Lord".

By that time many things had changed and many things had pass away and the change will remain that way..

Jesus at that time he had the Key of David and the Key of Death and Hades..

The rein of Death and Hades had come to the end. 

And that time will never come back...Death and Hades were defeated and surrender the keys of their territorial rein to Jesus. They gave up the dead that were in them..

And they lost the authority they had that came with having the Keys in their possession. 

They cannot do what were doing before...take and keep the people at the time of their death...that rein ended when they were defeated and had to surrender the Keys to their kingdoms and their territorial rein to Jesus...they were disarmed. 

They gave up all the dead that were in them, amassed through out the years at the time of their death with the exception of Abraham and those in his Bossom...those who at death had gathered to him...beginning with Issac and Jacob and all the household of Jacob...

Who were alive to God...and were his people not only while they lived but also after they died...they were set apart from the rest of the world while they lived and also after they died...(till Jesus Christ). 

Death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them to be judged at the time when they surrender the Keys of their territorial authority to Jesus...

They were stripped from the right to take and keep the people by DEFAULT at the time of their death...

(The prophetic in Genesis 3 of the seed of the woman had been fulfilled in Jesus when he defeated the Devil at the Cross.)

They gave up the dead all of them to be Judged accordingly to their works as they were recorded in the books...

And the book of Life was opened and whose named was not found in the book of Life were thrown in the Lake of fire where the Death and Hades and the Devil were thrown and the beast and the false prophet...

Those who were killed or given to the Sword (according to their superstitious beliefs they decapitated the people or dismembered them so they will not come back after their death, that's what they believed.

And the scripture say that those who suffered that fate...James one of Jesus disciples was the first one and Stephen follow up who died by stoning, and many others, the multitude that follow and continuous till our time and beyond...were together with those who did not worship the beast and bowd down to his icon and those who did not take the open cut, the crack mark in their forehead and in their hand...

(A mark that it is similar to the tribal birth marks on the cheeks of tribal clans in some cultures in Africa...and other places...among the native people. The identification marks given to clan tribes.).

All those rein together with Jesus through out many generations for thousand years-an unspecified duration of time , not a set rigit time, (thousand years is a period of time not clearly set but that runs through out many generations..,

Not to a specific generation...

Some people who died as martyrs for Jesus together with those who did not worship the beast and bowed down to his image and together with those who did not receive the open cut mark in their forehead, a visible mark in tribal clans but a similar identification mark in the spirit man but not visible in the flesh and the mark in their hand also, visible only in the Spirit world in the Spirit man, having telling the story of the things they had done in doing the will of the beast...

It all started with Jesus Christ and continues there after...people worship the beast and are being led by the beast and doing his bindings since the time the people of God began to be led by the Spirit of God and doing the bindings of Jesus Christ...

Edited October 31, 2022 by Your closest friendnt

[JohnD]

7 hours ago, Selah7 said:

Hey there, John.  The way I understand it, this 5th chapter is referring to John’s vision of the “Day of the Lord.”  This Day is the final Day of the flesh period and the first day of the Millennium. This is the Day that Jesus Christ returns to set up His millennial kingdom on earth.  Timeline-wise, the tribulation will be over and Satan will be in the pit at this time. As I understand it, God's elect will be reigning with Christ during this time.

Selah

And the Armageddon scenario happens twice?

[Selah7]

2 hours ago, JohnD said:

And the Armageddon scenario happens twice?

The wars of Armageddon (Revelation 16:14) and Hamon-Gog (Ezekiel 39:11), according to my understanding, take place at the 7th trump just before the millennium and are both fought by the LORD Himself. The Gog and Magog battle (Revelation 20:7-10) happens after the millennium and is also fought by the LORD.

Hope I have this right. 

Selah

 

Edited November 1, 2022 by Selah7
research

[JohnD]

42 minutes ago, Selah7 said:

The wars of Armageddon (Revelation 16:14) and Hamon-Gog (Ezekiel 39:11), according to my understanding, take place at the 7th trump just before the millennium and are both fought by the LORD Himself. The Gog and Magog battle (Revelation 20:7-10) happens after the millennium and is also fought by the LORD.

Hope I have this right. 

Selah

 

So the people in the millennium sin and die?