Could there be Multiple Raptures?

[OneLight]

57 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Something occurred to me - maybe saying "multiple raptures" isn't the best phrase . . . how about "partial rapture"?  That is, it's actually one rapture, but different reapings perhaps?  Maybe that would sit better with some folks thinking.

Scripture, to the best of my understanding, only speaks of one rapture and one event, not multiple raptures  - multiple events, nor multiple raptures of within the same event. 

Sure, there are questions I'd like answers to, like how did those who are under the alter in Revelation 6:9-11 get there and what is meant by "under the alter" - where is that space?  We can also question when the events of Revelation 7:9 take place as we read about "a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb" when the trumpets and bowls have not been presented in scripture, better known as tasking place during the "great tribulation"?

Instead of trying to twist events into place so I can come up with some strange theory just to answer these questions, I just accept that God does not make it clear enough to have an answer.  I believe, and accept, that there are things we are just not meant to understand.

[missmuffet]

33 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Scripture, to the best of my understanding, only speaks of one rapture and one event, not multiple raptures  - multiple events, nor multiple raptures of within the same event. 

Sure, there are questions I'd like answers to, like how did those who are under the alter in Revelation 6:9-11 get there and what is meant by "under the alter" - where is that space?  We can also question when the events of Revelation 7:9 take place as we read about "a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb" when the trumpets and bowls have not been presented in scripture, better known as tasking place during the "great tribulation"?

Instead of trying to twist events into place so I can come up with some strange theory just to answer these questions, I just accept that God does not make it clear enough to have an answer.  I believe, and accept, that there are things we are just not meant to understand.

Revelation 6:9-11

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

Those under the alter are those in heaven who were killed for their faith in God while on the earth during the 7 year tribulation. They are the tribulation Saints. The plea for righteous judgment from these martyrs indicates that their persecutors are still living. 

Revelation 7:9-10

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!

These are also the martyred. Many will be saved in Israel, but also many Gentiles will come to Christ in the great tribulation. The white robes indicate their triumph. The great multitude is heard in a great symphony of praise as they ascribe salvation to God. 

You will also see them in Revelation 7:13-14.

 

 

 

 

[OneLight]

2 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Revelation 6:9-11

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

Those under the alter are those in heaven who were killed for their faith in God while on the earth during the 7 year tribulation. They are the tribulation Saints. The plea for righteous judgment from these martyrs indicates that their persecutors are still living. 

Why does it have to be only during the 7 year tribulation?  Nowhere does scripture tell us that they are the tribulation saints.  Instead, we read they are "those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held."  No time frame given, just an explanation of who they are and why they died.  Why add the 7 year tribulation to scripture at this particular point?

2 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Revelation 7:9-10

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!

These are also the martyred. Many will be saved in Israel, but also many Gentiles will come to Christ in the great tribulation. The white robes indicate their triumph. The great multitude is heard in a great symphony of praise as they ascribe salvation to God. 

You will also see them in Revelation 7:13-14.

We read that these are those out of the great tribulation.

Revelation 7:14b

"These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Yet, the great tribulation continues until the second coming of Jesus.  Now, since the trumpets and bowls has yet to appear, while being part of the great tribulation, how is it that this vision is placed before the 7th seal where the trumpets are introduced?  This is an excellent example of some questions that just can't be answered with scripture.

[missmuffet]

9 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Why does it have to be only during the 7 year tribulation?  Nowhere does scripture tell us that they are the tribulation saints.  Instead, we read they are "those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held."  No time frame given, just an explanation of who they are and why they died.  Why add the 7 year tribulation to scripture at this particular point?

We read that these are those out of the great tribulation.

Revelation 7:14b

"These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Yet, the great tribulation continues until the second coming of Jesus.  Now, since the trumpets and bowls has yet to appear, while being part of the great tribulation, how is it that this vision is placed before the 7th seal where the trumpets are introduced?  This is an excellent example of some questions that just can't be answered with scripture.

OneLight have you ever read the book "Revelation"?. It was originally written by John Walvoord. He has since died but this book is revised by Philip E. Rawley and Mark Hitchcock who are great prophecy teachers. They answer many questions.  This book is difficult to find now but.....

Mark Hitchcock also writes a book titled "101 answers to questions about the book of Revelation". You might like him he is very good. You can look for it on Amazon. 

[farouk]

3 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

By the time Jesus comes back at the Second Advent (1 Thess 4:17, 2 Thess 2:1) the vast majority of "the church" will already be in heaven and they are the ones who will accompany Christ back to earth for the MK.  Those who are "alive and remain" will be just a very small fraction of "the church".

What I meant - in terms of 1 Cor. 10.32 - that the entity involved in 1 Thess. 4 (and indeed in 1 Cor. 11.26) is the church, as opposed to another entity.

[Vine Abider]

1 hour ago, OneLight said:

Instead of trying to twist events into place so I can come up with some strange theory just to answer these questions, I just accept that God does not make it clear enough to have an answer.  I believe, and accept, that there are things we are just not meant to understand.

Many gifted bible scholars and theologians who advocate partial raptures may not agree with that depiction . . .   But I agree God leaves some things veiled for a reason, for example what He told Daniel about visions sealed up until the end times. (see Daniel 12:4 & 9) 

Anyway, good enough - let's just leave it at that before something too inappropriate gets said.

[OneLight]

41 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

OneLight have you ever read the book "Revelation"?. It was originally written by John Walvoord. He has since died but this book is revised by Philip E. Rawley and Mark Hitchcock who are great prophecy teachers. They answer many questions.  This book is difficult to find now but.....

Mark Hitchcock also writes a book titled "101 answers to questions about the book of Revelation". You might like him he is very good. You can look for it on Amazon. 

In all honesty, I gave up reading books about the bible in the 80's.  The last was The Late Great Planet Earth.  I now stick to scripture because all else are just theories people have through their own personal studies.  If it's in the bible, God will show it to me.

[OneLight]

40 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Many gifted bible scholars and theologians who advocate partial raptures may not agree with that depiction . . .   But I agree God leaves some things veiled for a reason, for example what He told Daniel about visions sealed up until the end times. (see Daniel 12:4 & 9) 

Anyway, good enough - let's just leave it at that before something too inappropriate gets said.

I was only speaking about myself.  I will have to stand and give account for what I've said, just as everyone else will, so I choose to not expand on the bible with any extra-biblical theology, and I'm sure, with my imagination, I could come up with some doozies.  Others will have to be accountable for what they say.

As for where being caught up is found in scripture, Paul wrote of a man in Christ who was caught up to the third heaven (2 Corinthians 12:1-6), the event we call the Rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:17) and in Revelation 12:5 where the man child (Jesus) was caught up to God and His throne.  We also hear of Enoch and Elijah who did not die, but were taken to heaven.

Out of all these, there is only one that reflects the church being taken, which is what is known as The Rapture, and that is in 1 Thessalonians 4.  The other mentions are for individuals, not His Body, the church.

Now, since this is your thread, are you saying that you no longer want to talk about the possibilities of multiple raptures, or are you basically saying that you don't want to discuss the topic with me?  You do have the right to request the thread to be closed if you choose, but if you want to continue and it's just with me you don't want to discuss this with, don't reply to any of my posts.

[DeighAnn]

5 hours ago, OneLight said:

Not like the 144,000.  Believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit when they accept Christ, as we read in 2 Corinthians 1:21-22; Ephesians 1:13-14, 4:30.

Since no one from the 10 Northern tribes along with maybe Levi and Benjamin even know who they are now, how is their 'sealing' different than the gentile turned Christian they have become?

Edited November 20, 2022 by DeighAnn

[farouk]

2 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Since no one from the 10 Northern tribes at least know who they are, how is their 'sealing' different than the gentiles they have become?

Romans 8.9 says, 'if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His'. Born again believers are indwelt by the Spirit of God; and thus David's prayer in Psalm 51.11 does not fit dispensationally: '...and take not Thy Holy Spirit from me'.