Antiochus Epiphanes, the premier archetype of the antichrist, any others qualify ?

[Shilohsfoal]

7 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

The future "consummation" or "Ultimate End" is seen below in 2 Peter 3:10, it's my belief that the event seen in Zechariah 14:12 takes place at this same time

2 Peter 3:10KJV

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Zechariah 14:12KJV

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

 

Correct. On the day of the Lord. 

The abomination of desolation is placed in Jerusalem on the day of the Lord. 

It looks like this. 

I think John described it best in Revelation 6.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Shilohsfoal

[truth7t7]

7 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Correct. On the day of the Lord. 

The abomination of desolation is placed in Jerusalem on the day of the Lord. 

It looks like this. 

I think John described it best in Revelation 6.

We Disagree, "The Day Of The Lord" Is (The End) The Consummation

The future "consummation" or "Ultimate End" is seen below in 2 Peter 3:10, it's my belief that the event seen in Zechariah 14:12 takes place at this same time

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Zechariah 14:1 & 12KJV

1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Edited November 4, 2022 by truth7t7

[Shilohsfoal]

5 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

We Disagree, "The Day Of The Lord" Is (The End) The Consummation

The future "consummation" or "Ultimate End" is seen below in 2 Peter 3:10, it's my belief that the event seen in Zechariah 14:12 takes place at this same time

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Zechariah 14:1 & 12KJV

1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Correct. The day of the Lord. 

That is when the abomination of desolation is placed in Jerusalem. 

It takes place 3.5 days after the nations conquer Jerusalem. 

[truth7t7]

7 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Correct. The day of the Lord. 

That is when the abomination of desolation is placed in Jerusalem. 

It takes place 3.5 days after the nations conquer Jerusalem. 

Incorrect, it takes place at the second coming of Jesus Christ when this earth is dissolved by the Lord's fire (The End)

We Disagree, "The Day Of The Lord" Is (The End) The Consummation

The future "consummation" or "Ultimate End" is seen below in 2 Peter 3:10, it's my belief that the event seen in Zechariah 14:12 takes place at this same time

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Zechariah 14:1 & 12KJV

1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

[Shilohsfoal]

3 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

Incorrect, it takes place at the second coming of Jesus Christ when this earth is dissolved by the Lord's fire (The End)

We Disagree, "The Day Of The Lord" Is (The End) The Consummation

The future "consummation" or "Ultimate End" is seen below in 2 Peter 3:10, it's my belief that the event seen in Zechariah 14:12 takes place at this same time

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Zechariah 14:1 & 12KJV

1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

They are both talking about Jerusalem. Not the world. 

By the way, the Lord stands on Mt Olivet on the day of the Lord. Just wanted to make sure you know where he is on the day of the Lord. 

Zech 14:4

On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south.

[Dennis1209]

I see a lot of foreshadowing in the Bible, and I believe Antiochus Epiphanes IV is an archetype of the coming villain. Epiphanes IV does not qualify with the lengthy list of names and titles listed below:

The seed of Satan: Genesis 3:15 (KJV) And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

 Satan is a mimicker of everything the Lord does. Satan tried to prevent the Messiah from coming by contaminating the bloodline of Jesus via Genesis 6:1-4 and the murder of young children. He has had someone ready in every generation to step in, IE., Hitler. He will have a son (Antichrist), and the False Prophet will act as his holy spirit; most likely, in my opinion, the Pope.

 The Little Horn:

Daniel 7:8 (KJV) I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

 Three nations, powers, or global zones don’t go along with his program; and are defeated and come under his control. A mouth speaking great things: No doubt when he speaks, he will deceive and mesmerize the mass with his eloquent speech as an orator. He will make Hitler look like a stuttering babbler.

 The King of Fierce Countenance:

Daniel 8:23 (KJV) And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

 Dark sentences: חִידָה (ḥî·ḏā(h)): n.fem.; ≡ Str 2420; TWOT 616a—1. LN 32.21 riddle, enigma, i.e., the asking of a hard question (as a game) to be solved or guessed, implying scorn or taunting toward the persons being asked (Jdg 14:12–19 passim; Hab 2:6+); 2. hidden things, intrigue, something secret and difficult or impossible to be known (Nu 12:8; Ps 78:2; Da 8:23+). By the power and indwelling of Satan as his son; the Antichrist will have superior intelligence and wisdom to solve problems of the globe.

 King of Bold Face Biblical Man, King — A later monarch over a kingdom split from the goat’s horn in Daniel’s vision who would understand riddles. Commonly believed to be Antiochus IV Epiphanes. skilled in riddles This ability implies wisdom in the ancient Near East (see Dan 5:12). Antiochus displays worldly wisdom, making him skilled in intrigue. This designation emphasizes his duplicity (see vv. 25; 11:21, 23, 27, 32). Antiochus Epiphanes was a watered-down type and shadow of the coming Antichrist.

 The Prince That Shall Come:

Daniel 9:26 (KJV) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

 שָׁמֵם (šā·mēm): v.; ≡ Str 8074; TWOT 2409—1. LN 20.31–20.60 (qal) be desolate, be devastated, destitute, laid waste, ravaged, ruined, deserted, i.e., be in a destroyed and ruined state, implying the object or area destroyed is now abandoned from all help, deserted, or in personal poverty.

 The Desolator:

Daniel 9:27 (KJV) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 שִׁקּוּץ שָׁמֵם (šiq·qûṣ šā·mēm)1 abomination that causes desolation, a horrible thing which defiles, i.e., an object or event causing the vacating of a holy site (Da 9:27; 11:31; 12:11+)

 One week is seven days, which represents seven years. The ‘midst of the week’, is exactly the midpoint of the tribulation, or 1,260 days of 360-day Hebrew years in [3.5 years; mid-tribulation]. He previously made a covenant with Israel and allowed the Temple to be built and animal sacrifices to finally resume again. As soon as he stands in the Holy of Holies in the Temple and declares himself to be god, in earnest, he will ransack Israel and start martyring the Jews by the hundreds of thousands. They will probably flee to the caves of Petra, Jordan. A remnant of one-third of the population will be protected by the Lord and saved.

 A Vile Person:

Daniel 11:21 (KJV) And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

 Vile Person: (bā·zā(h)): v.; ≡ despise, show contempt for, think lightly, i.e., pertaining to feeling of contempt for an object, because it is regarded to be bad, or of little value, often with behaviors toward the object (including speaking scorn and ridicule) which correspond to that contempt (Ge 25:34); (qal pass.) be despised (Ps 22:7); (nif) be despised, be contemptible (1Sa 15:9); (hif) cause to despise (Est 1:17.

 Flatteries: חֲלַקְלַק (ḥǎlǎq·lǎq): n.fem.; ≡ slipperiness, slickness, i.e., having the state or quality of viscosity, and so be treacherous to walk upon (Ps 35:6; Jer 23:12+); 2. LN 33.251–33.255 empty words, i.e., words that promise, but are not fulfilled, with a focus on the flattering quality of the promises (Da 11:21, 34+), note: some translate as “hypocrisy” and “intrigues” as more specific kinds of falsehoods.

 The Willful King:

Daniel 11:36 (KJV) And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

 The Abomination of Desolation:

Matthew 24:15 (KJV) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

 The Man of Sin:

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 That man of sin: We cannot know or figure out who this man of sin is ahead of time until he is revealed. Who the Antichrist is, is revealed when he “confirms” a covenant for seven years with Israel and the many. This also is the ‘official’ start of the seven-year [2,520 days] tribulation.

 Falling away: Some expound this falling away is the Rapture of the Church, but I disagree. I believe it is a falling away from the true Gospel and having itchy ears, and believing a lie, falling away from having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ our Lord.

 Son of Perdition: I find it interesting that only two people in the Bible are called “son of perdition”; the Antichrist and Judas Iscariot.

 Perdition: ἀπώλεια (apōleia), destruction, ruin (Mt 7:13); waste, needless squandering of a resource (Mt 26:8; Mk 14:4).

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 The Lawless One; Wicked:

2 Thessalonians 2:8 (KJV) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

 The Antichrist:

1 John 2:18 (KJV) Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 1 John 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 1 John 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

 ANTICHRIST (ἀντίχριστος, antichristos). A figure empowered by Satan who functions as an enemy of Jesus Christ and the Church. In the context of apocalyptic literature, this figure performs false miracles, deceives many in order to discourage people from worshiping the true God, and persecutes God’s people and His chosen people the Jews. He will deny that Jesus came to earth in the flesh and deny there is a supreme God and Son of God.

 ἀντίχριστος (antichristos), ου (ou), ὁ (ho): n.masc.; ≡ Str 500; TDNT 9.493—LN 53.83 antichrist, one who opposes Christ, implying the usurping of Christ and his position 1Jn 2:18, 22; 4:3; 2Jn 7+

 The Beast:

Revelation 11:7 (KJV) And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. Revelation 13:1 (KJV) And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

 The Idol Shepherd:

Zechariah 11:17 (KJV) Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

 Revelation 13:3 (KJV) And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

 This sounds as if there’s an assassination attempt on the Antichrist, or he is mortally wounded in a battle. The Lord only has the power to resurrect the dead. I suspect this is another deception of the king of destruction and deceit, another lie.

 The Wicked One:

Matthew 13:38 (KJV) The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

 The Adversary:

Psalm 74:10 (KJV) O God, how long shall the adversary reproach? shall the enemy blaspheme thy name for ever?

 The Assyrian:

Isaiah 10:5 (KJV) O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.

 Assyria, the rod of my anger Yahweh used Assyria to punish Israel. Victory in the ancient world was often attributed to the superiority of one’s god. Yahweh is thus presented as truly superior—He, not Assyria’s god, is behind their success. The foreign nations are simply tools in the hands of Yahweh. There’s a long history of Assyria oppressing and enslaving Israel. The Assyrians were Semites (Gen. 10:22), but in the process of time, non-Semite tribes mingled with the inhabitants. They were a military people, the “Romans of the East.”

 The Profane and Wicked Prince of Israel:

Ezekiel 21:25 (KJV) And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,

 Son of the Morning:

Isaiah 14:12 (KJV) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

 False Christs:

Matthew 24:24 (KJV) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

 IDENTIFICATION

 John 5:43 (KJV)  I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. He will come in his own name, and the world will accept him as their messiah; after rejecting the One True Messiah, Jesus Christ our Lord.

 Before the antichrist is revealed, the world will be divided into ten governing units ruled by ten powerful leaders (or kings). The United Nations has divided the globe into TEN economic global trading zones. The antichrist, not one of the ten, will arise in power and conquer three of the ten, and they will become only figureheads under him. The other seven kings will submit to him (Daniel 7:23-24; Rev. 17:12, 13, 17).

·         He will come into power before the tribulation (2 Thess. 2:3).

·         He will sign a 7-year covenant with Israel, which starts the tribulation (Dan. 9:7).

·         The numerical value of his name is 666 (Rev.13:18).

·         The Israelis will know him when he stands in the holy place of the tribulation temple and declare himself to be God (Mt.24:15).

 Daniel 11:37 (KJV) Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

 There’s much speculation and opinion on “nor the desire of women.” It could mean a female worship goddess; he’s a Sodomite homosexual, he doesn’t recognize traditional marriage or celibate, and has no interest in the opposite sex? I suspect, based on his name, character, traits, and evil like the world has never seen before, he’s a flaming deviant homosexual with not one moral.

 WORKS OF THE ANTICHRIST

• He will destroy, deceive, exalt himself, and oppose Christ (Dan. 8:23-25).
• He will establish a 7-year covenant with Israel, break it after 3 1/2 years, and stop the sacrifices being offered during the tribulation (Dan. 9:27).
• He will desecrate the sacredness of the Jewish temple by standing in the Holy Place (Mt. 24:15) and sitting in the temple, demanding to be worshiped as God (2 Th. 2:3-4).
• He will set up an image of himself in the Jewish temple, demanding that it be worshiped. Those who don’t are killed (Dan.11:31; Mt. 24:15; Rev.13:14-15).
• He will magnify himself above and speak against God, and he has no desire for women. (Dan. 11:36-39)
• He will invade Israel and gain control over many countries. (Dan. 11:40-45)
• He will obey Satan, demonstrating great power, signs, and wonders. (2 Thess. 2:9)
• He will be fatally wounded but will be healed. The world will follow him, and he will wage war (Rev. 13:3-4).
• He will be arrogant, blaspheme God, and overcome the saints (Rev. 13:5-6).
• He will have authority over the world for 42 months and be worshiped by the world. (Rev. 13:7-8). He will demand that everybody have his mark on them (Rev. 13:16-18).

 THE ANTICHRIST’S DOOM

• He will be broken without human agency (Dan. 8:25).
• What is decreed upon him will be poured out on him (Dan. 9:27).
• He will come to his end and no one will help him (Dan. 11:45).
• He will be slain by the breath of Christ at His second coming (2 Thess. 2:8).
• He will be thrown alive into the lake of fire (Rev. 19:19-20).

 

[Diaste]

On 11/4/2022 at 6:23 AM, Shilohsfoal said:

If you wish to believe the resurection took place in 167 bc, you can. 

Not sure where this came from. I didn't say that.

On 11/4/2022 at 6:23 AM, Shilohsfoal said:

But I'm telling you. The time of the end was not in 167 bc when you claim the abomination of desolation took place. 

I'm not saying this either. Clearly the 1st and 2nd resurrection was taught by Jesus and the Apostles in the 1st century, well past 167 BC. 

 

On 11/4/2022 at 6:23 AM, Shilohsfoal said:

Christ is very clear the time of distress caused by the abomination of desolation is still future. 

True. The A of D is symbol not a cause. The beast is the cause of GT. Satan's greed and rebellion are channeled through the beast. The A of D is a symbol that Satan has taken over, usurping God.

On 11/4/2022 at 6:23 AM, Shilohsfoal said:

Christ is not wrong. This time of great tribulation caused by the abomination of desolation is future, not past.

Okay. The Jewish histories clearly record one happened in 167 BC. How would Jesus be able to direct us to the understanding of something that never happened by instructing us to look to an ancient prophet, if there was no prior occurrence? So Jesus told us to look for a thing where we would have no idea what we were looking for? The only reason we know what the A of D looks like is BECAUSE it happened in the past, as foretold.

Because it happened in the past doesn't abrogate a future occurrence and fulfillment of separate prophecy.

 

[Diaste]

On 11/4/2022 at 6:16 AM, Shilohsfoal said:

Not really. 

Jesus said when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet daniel(let the reader understand). 

Key phrase. No way to know what it is if there is no example. AE is the example.

On 11/4/2022 at 6:16 AM, Shilohsfoal said:

When you see it means it will take place in the future, not the past. You would not be able to see it take place if it had already taken place. 

Sure. Doesn't mean it didn't happen in the past. 

"We are going to see the game this weekend."

"The circus is coming, are you going to go see it?"

 

[Shilohsfoal]

7 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Not sure where this came from. I didn't say that.

I'm not saying this either. Clearly the 1st and 2nd resurrection was taught by Jesus and the Apostles in the 1st century, well past 167 BC. 

 

True. The A of D is symbol not a cause. The beast is the cause of GT. Satan's greed and rebellion are channeled through the beast. The A of D is a symbol that Satan has taken over, usurping God.

Okay. The Jewish histories clearly record one happened in 167 BC. How would Jesus be able to direct us to the understanding of something that never happened by instructing us to look to an ancient prophet, if there was no prior occurrence? So Jesus told us to look for a thing where we would have no idea what we were looking for? The only reason we know what the A of D looks like is BECAUSE it happened in the past, as foretold.

Because it happened in the past doesn't abrogate a future occurrence and fulfillment of separate prophecy.

 

Jesus directed us to Daniel who wrote about the great tribulation in this verse. 

Daniel 12:1

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
 

This is the great trubulation Jesus spoke when he said to those in Jerusalem to flee when they see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel. 

It is at the time of this great tribulation that the resurection takes place. 

Daniel 12:2

Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
 

It is on this day, according to christ, the abominatuon of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel is placed in Jerusalem. 

So if you say the abomination of desolation was placed in Jerusalem in 167 bc. You have to believe this great tribulation and resurection Daniel prophecied would take place at that time have also taken place. 

Or you could be wrong with the Pharisees who also taught the same interpretation as yourself. 

[Shilohsfoal]

19 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Key phrase. No way to know what it is if there is no example. AE is the example.

Sure. Doesn't mean it didn't happen in the past. 

"We are going to see the game this weekend."

"The circus is coming, are you going to go see it?"

 

There is a way to know what it is if your alive today. The armed forces of the north don't drop pigs on cities to cause thier desolation. 

And daniel did say it's the armed forces of the north who place this object in Jerusalem to cause it to be desolste(uninhabited). Not the king of the north himself. 

Also if you look at the description of what takes place in Revelation 6,you would also come to the conclusion a dead pig can't cause such destruction. 

Daniel 11:31

His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.

Lets repeat. It's not the king of the north who makes Jerusalem uninhabited. It's the armed forces who place that object in Jerusalem that causes it to be uninhabited. Not a soul left there alive. 

Edited November 5, 2022 by Shilohsfoal