kenny2212 Posted November 1, 2022 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 359 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 101 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) The resurrection referred to in Rev. 20:4-6 is the resurrection of the tribulation saints (people who converted during the tribulation period and died during the same). Pre-tribulation saints have already been resurrected in the rapture. 1 Thess. 4:14-18 - 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. AND THE DEAD IN CHRIST WILL RISE FIRST. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. The Great White Throne Judgement Rev. 20:11-15 (NKJV) - Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. Now it would be redundant for God to check whether a person's name was in the book of life if HELL just gave him/her up. Now the "book of deeds" is open to determine a person's degree of punishment. Edited November 7, 2022 by kenny2212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted November 1, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.47 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 1, 2022 From Ezekiel, Daniel and Revelation I've come to the conclusion that israel is resurrected at the beginning of the millinium and the nations after. In other words, israel keeps the sabbath of the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny2212 Posted November 1, 2022 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 359 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 101 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 1, 2022 39 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said: From Ezekiel, Daniel and Revelation I've come to the conclusion that israel is resurrected at the beginning of the millinium and the nations after. In other words, israel keeps the sabbath of the Lord. Noted, Shilohsfoal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted November 1, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,028 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 1,449 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted November 1, 2022 5 hours ago, kenny2212 said: The resurrection referred to in Rev. 20:4-6 is the resurrection of the tribulation saints (people who converted during the tribulation period and died during the same). Pre-tribulation saints have already been resurrected in the rapture. 1 Thess. 4:14-18 - 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. AND THE DEAD IN CHRIST WILL RISE FIRST. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. The Great White Throne Judgement Rev. 20:11-15 (NKJV) - Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. Now it would redundant for God to check whether a person's name was in the book of life if HELL just gave him/her up. Now the "book of deeds" is open to determine a person's degree of punishment. I appreciate the dilemma of having the Book of Life at an assize that has no Christians, but must still admit a different understanding to yours. 1st Corinthians 15:23 say that we (those addressed in the greeting of the book) will be raised "when He comes". In the Parables of the Virgins, Talents and Pounds, the faithful and diligent are raised together with the slothful Christians. I am also aware of the theory of "the Tribulation saints", but consider this. The Churches in Chapters 2 and 3 are largely apostate. To the Overcomers is promised an early rapture before the Great Tribulation (Rev.3:10). The uncountable company of Chapter 7 pass through the Great Tribulation but have dirty garments that need washing. The Two Witnesses of Revelation 11 have no allies. The Man-Child is raptured. Those who "have the testimony of Jesus Christ" in Revelation 12 flee to a wilderness. The saints on earth are "Overcome" by the Beast in Revelation 13:7. And the rest are found in Mystery Babylon the Great. With every Christian left on earh defeated, WHO WILL PREACH THE GOSPEL THAT MEN MIGHT BE SAVED. The situation is so bad that all that is left is an angel with the "everlasting gospel" in Revelation 11. He preaches from "mid-heaven" and his gospel is not about Jesus. I seriously doubt that any will be converted during this time - and I find no scripture to show it. But this is not all. The saints who reign with Christ are not accorded with FAITH and CONFESSING as in Romans 10. They are accorded with refusing the Mark of the Beast. Their decision to refuse the Beast led to martyrdom. Lastly, there are THREE different criteria for reigning with Christ in Revelation 20:4-6. Be killed ... 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded (1) for the witness of Jesus, and (2) for the word of God, and (3) which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Group 1 could be anyone from Stephen onward Group 2 could be anyone from Abel onward Group 3 are those who lived at the time of the Beast The Book of Life being present at the White Throne is explainable. It would do us well to discuss this because in Matthew 25:31-46 "ALL NATIONS" are judged. they are CONTRASTED to the "servants of the Lord". They, ALL NATIONS, a name for the Gentiles, admit not knowing the Lord nor His servants. And they pass or fail BY WORKS. Yet some of "ALL NATIONS" ENTER ETERNAL LIFE! Provocative! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny2212 Posted November 2, 2022 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 359 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 101 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 2, 2022 5 hours ago, AdHoc said: I appreciate the dilemma of having the Book of Life at an assize that has no Christians, but must still admit a different understanding to yours. 1st Corinthians 15:23 say that we (those addressed in the greeting of the book) will be raised "when He comes". In the Parables of the Virgins, Talents and Pounds, the faithful and diligent are raised together with the slothful Christians. I am also aware of the theory of "the Tribulation saints", but consider this. The Churches in Chapters 2 and 3 are largely apostate. To the Overcomers is promised an early rapture before the Great Tribulation (Rev.3:10). The uncountable company of Chapter 7 pass through the Great Tribulation but have dirty garments that need washing. The Two Witnesses of Revelation 11 have no allies. The Man-Child is raptured. Those who "have the testimony of Jesus Christ" in Revelation 12 flee to a wilderness. The saints on earth are "Overcome" by the Beast in Revelation 13:7. And the rest are found in Mystery Babylon the Great. With every Christian left on earh defeated, WHO WILL PREACH THE GOSPEL THAT MEN MIGHT BE SAVED. The situation is so bad that all that is left is an angel with the "everlasting gospel" in Revelation 11. He preaches from "mid-heaven" and his gospel is not about Jesus. I seriously doubt that any will be converted during this time - and I find no scripture to show it. But this is not all. The saints who reign with Christ are not accorded with FAITH and CONFESSING as in Romans 10. They are accorded with refusing the Mark of the Beast. Their decision to refuse the Beast led to martyrdom. Lastly, there are THREE different criteria for reigning with Christ in Revelation 20:4-6. Be killed ... 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded (1) for the witness of Jesus, and (2) for the word of God, and (3) which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Group 1 could be anyone from Stephen onward Group 2 could be anyone from Abel onward Group 3 are those who lived at the time of the Beast The Book of Life being present at the White Throne is explainable. It would do us well to discuss this because in Matthew 25:31-46 "ALL NATIONS" are judged. they are CONTRASTED to the "servants of the Lord". They, ALL NATIONS, a name for the Gentiles, admit not knowing the Lord nor His servants. And they pass or fail BY WORKS. Yet some of "ALL NATIONS" ENTER ETERNAL LIFE! Provocative! Noted, Adhoc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdHoc Posted November 9, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,028 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 1,449 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted November 9, 2022 On 11/2/2022 at 4:14 AM, kenny2212 said: Noted, Adhoc. In 1st Corinthians 15 verses 22-26 the order of resurrection is laid forth. It is; 1. Christ first - and we know that that is past already 2. "Those who are His" - at His Coming Then a period of rule while He subdues God's enemies 3. Then death is conquered - being the last enemy At Christ's resurrection, to complete the Wave Offering, a company of Old Testament saints were raised just after Jesus (Matt.27:52) Christ "Coming" is ONE JOURNEY but like an express train He makes a stop on the way. After His coronation and after receiving His Throne of glory, our Lord travels from heaven through the stratosphere (where there are no clouds) and stops in the clouds (troposphere). The resurrection and rapture of the Church then takes place and, as 1st Thessalonians 4:17 says, we meet Him in the clouds. Then, when the Church is judged (at the Bema - a traveling throne), our Lord bursts forth from the clouds over Mount of Olives in Jerusalem (Matt.24:30). After fighting the battle of Armageddon, our Lord jesus sends His angels to gather Israel from the four winds. The Promise to Abraham was to him and his "Seed". And Jesus is their Maker, Owner and King. So every single seed that can be traced back to Jacob, plus Abraham and Isaac, will be resurrected and brought back to Canaan by angels (Ezekiel 37, Matt.24:31) Thus is accomplished "THOSE WHO ARE HIS". Israel and the Church. Then, the returned King Jesus sets up His Kingdom on earth with the Capital Jerusalem. He spends 1,000 years subduing God's enemies from the Beast to Magog. This will generate millions more dead. Added to this, the Nations who survive the Great Tribulation are still in the flesh and must die sometime - even if long life is the order of the day. Except for the Christians (a minority) and Israel (a small nation), Hades, the place of the souls of dead men, will be full. Just next to Hades is Tartaroo, the place of disobedient spirits (2nd Pet.2:4), and the sea contains the demons. After the great slaughter of Hamon-Gog, which would almost fill the "bottomless pit", our Lord Jesus, Who is given power to call the dead out of graves, raises "the Rest of the dead". At the White Throne resurrection all no-Christians and non-Israelites will be present - alive. The books of their WORKS are opened. The criteria of judgment is found in Isaiah 66:24. To go to the Lake of Fire you must have "transgressed against God". This can be anything from refusing a Christian a glass of water (Matt.25:31-46) to blasphemy to murder. But there will be millions of people who did not "transgress against God". From aborted babies to children who were killed or died of disease to simple herdsmen of desert places to upright citizens from everywhere - people who did not actively transgress against God. I do not mean sinless. I mean that they never actively took up a cause to thwart God. The Book of Life has puzzled many scholars. But a detailed study of this Book will show something very interesting. It is ALWAYS connected with WORKS. Starting from Moses in Exodus 33:32-33, being written in or blotted out depends on WORKS. So why then does the Lord call it the Book of LIFE. e understand from John's gospel that LIFE is to be had by FAITH - not WORKS. We get a clue in Matthew 18 and 19 and Mark 9 where to ENTER the Millennial Kingdom is to ENTER LIFE. That is, the King and co-kings of the earth in this time possess eternal LIFE and so their RULE will be according to God's LIFE. At the moment we have the rule of death. Our governments are made of men and women who are "dead in their sins" and they do not rule long before they die. In the Millennium the style of rule will be according to divine LIFE and the kings never die. In any Kingdom there are three types of people. (i) A King or kings - the ruling class. (ii) The Servants - SUBJECTS who minister to the ruling class. And (iii) the SUBJECTS who are ruled. If the type of rule is by God's LIFE (and this comes from being born again) then the Kingdom is blissful. To help see this, we look at those who are NOT in the Book of Life. Where are they? In the SECOND DEATH! The Book of LIFE a Book of REWARD contrasts with the SECOND DEATH. And if it is a Book of REWARD then a Christian, who has eternal life, can keep his eternal life but be blotted out of the Book of Life for evil works (Rev.3:5). Thus, at the White Throne, millions of people will NOT be found in the Book of Life for their transgression against God. And millions of aborted babies, infant dead, children who died, the injured and the damaged, and upright citizens will enter the New Earth as SUBJECTS of Christ's Kingdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPMartin Posted November 10, 2022 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 186 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 41 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/01/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted November 10, 2022 On 11/1/2022 at 8:34 AM, kenny2212 said: The resurrection referred to in Rev. 20:4-6 is the resurrection of the tribulation saints (people who converted during the tribulation period and died during the same). Pre-tribulation saints have already been resurrected in the rapture. 1 Thess. 4:14-18 - 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. AND THE DEAD IN CHRIST WILL RISE FIRST. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. The Great White Throne Judgement Rev. 20:11-15 (NKJV) - Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. Now it would be redundant for God to check whether a person's name was in the book of life if HELL just gave him/her up. Now the "book of deeds" is open to determine a person's degree of punishment. Nope read this: 1Co 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. 1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. the faithful are judged accordingly but that which is without the Lord is condemned already because of their own judgement of what is good and evil. one should remember that John the Baptist said Jesus was to baptize with Spirit and fire and Moses and Paul said: Heb_12:29 For our God is a consuming fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny2212 Posted November 10, 2022 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 359 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 101 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 10, 2022 22 minutes ago, DPMartin said: Nope read this: 1Co 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. 1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. the faithful are judged accordingly but that which is without the Lord is condemned already because of their own judgement of what is good and evil. one should remember that John the Baptist said Jesus was to baptize with Spirit and fire and Moses and Paul said: Heb_12:29 For our God is a consuming fire. Read this - Now it would be redundant for God to check whether a person's name was in the book of life if HELL just gave him/her up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPMartin Posted November 11, 2022 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 186 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 41 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/01/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted November 11, 2022 22 hours ago, kenny2212 said: Read this - Now it would be redundant for God to check whether a person's name was in the book of life if HELL just gave him/her up. that would be in your own judgement, correct? not necessarily what is in scripture, seeing that God is not stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny2212 Posted November 13, 2022 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 359 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 101 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 13, 2022 On 11/11/2022 at 4:52 PM, DPMartin said: that would be in your own judgement, correct? not necessarily what is in scripture, seeing that God is not stupid. Yes, God is not stupid. You just buttressed my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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