Is the Beast in Daniel 7 the same Empires as Dan 2?

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Please focus, dwell, ponder, remember, think about when the statue of Dan 2 breaks into 10 toes.

Then think about the 4th beast of Dan. 7 and how that nation/kingdom divides into 10 also.

When did this happen? What is the date that this event happened?

So many say that we are now in the time of the toes. Well, prove it!

If it is in the past, then it should be easy to give a date.

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What nation, that ruled over the children of Israel after the Greeks, that began in 63 BC, divided into 10 toes?

What happened to that nation after that division? The iron is continual.

Who was the iron nation 1000 years ago?, 500 years ago? Who was the iron nation 100 years ago? Who is it right now?

Fear, fear that it is Rome, because that destroys all of the theories that remove Rome from the prophetic timeline.

Who claims to be exclusively Israel? Who has persecuted the children of Israel for 2000 years? Who has made a treaty against the very existence of the State of Israel and recognized the State Palestine in 2013? Rome, Rome, Rome, the RCC. 

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Deny reality if you wish. Run with the herd. "Everybody in my group believes in what they have taught for a thousand years." "My preacher went to school and they told him and he told me." 

It reminds me of the apostles when they said that the kingdom that God promised is a spiritual kingdom and not a material kingdom. Most still believed that the kingdom would be material and not spiritual. What a tough sell.

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Now look at the 4th beast of Dan. 7. That nation also divides into 10.

What is the date that the 4th beast nation divided into 10? Are we in the time of the 10 horns? If so, then when did the 4th beast nation divide into 10 horns?

The power of the 4th beast over the children of Israel is continual to the end, but it does end.

The statue shows that after the time of the iron ending, the stone strikes.

We are between the end of the toes and the stone striking.

(The stone will strike after Jerusalem falls to the deceived kings of the east from across the Euphrates, Iran.)

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The tribulation is the entire lifetime of the 4th beast. From the beginning (63 BC) until the 3 1/2 times runs out. Centuries and centuries, not just a few years. 

The 7 times are the same time period of the gentiles that the statue in Dan. 2 is showing.

The 7 times are divided into 2 parts of 3 1/2 each.

The first 3 1/2 is from Babylon until the great scattering of 70 AD, Dan.12:7.

The second 3 1/2 is from 70 AD until 1967 when Jerusalem was  restored.

The numbers in the Rev that associate the 3 1/2 times with months and days are symbolic numbers and are not literal.

The reference to days and months in Rev 11 & 12 are showing that the 3 1/2 times in those contexts are both speaking of the second 3 1/2 times (70 AD - 1967) and not the first 3 1/2 times (Babylon - 70 AD). 

The second 3 1/2 times (70 AD - 1967) is the last part of the "times of the gentiles" that Jesus said would come after the 70 AD fall of Jerusalem, Lk 21:20-24.

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The war of Armageddon between Israel and the kings of the east has already begun.

The final battle of Armageddon will soon begin.

Israel will lose and Jerusalem will fall.

After that, Jesus comes for the gospel kingdom, and this material world comes to an end when the stone strikes.

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Consider this, that the Dan. 2 statue is the showing the same nations and timeline as Dan. 7.

Observe the point in time when the iron nation divides into 10. Then the same time that the 4th beast nation divides into 10.

Then go to the Rev 17 passage about the beast nation. You can see that the beast also divides into 10 after the 7th head dies. (Remember that this covers centuries and not just a few years, as history shows.)

These are parallel passages that when they are outlined and put together show the history of the children of Israel from Babylon until our day.

The Dan. 2 statue is the simplest.

The beasts of Dan. 7 add some details.

The Rev passages show details about the iron beast Roman nation and Israel that could not be revealed until after the events of Jesus, the kingdom, and the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem. Then the 7 sealed scroll could be revealed in 96 AD ish.

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The Rev 17 passage has a timeline anchor when John says that the 6th head "is". That places one time line anchor in 96 AD. (The 7th head dies, divides into 10, in 476 ish.)

The city that the woman sits on is Rome.

The woman is unbelieving flesh Israel (implied as harlot Jerusalem) in Roman slavery and attacking the Pentecost gospel spiritual kingdom of Israel/(church) in unison with Rome in 96 AD.

The time of the domination of Rome comes to an end when the Dan. 2 statue ends and the time of the 4th beast of Dan. 7 ends.

Then the unbelieving flesh Israel woman of Rev 17, leaves her seat, and returns to restore Jerusalem, along with the believing flesh Israel (Christians), who are shown as the 2 witnesses in Rev 11 and the faithful woman Israel in Rev 12.

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The Rev 13 beast timeline also agrees with Dan 2 & 7.

The time of the dividing into 10 comes when the 1st beast changes into the image beast. The common thread is Caesar worship.

The first Roman Empire beast dies, becomes divided, but image beast is still the iron Rome. Rev 17, The 8th head is one of the 7 heads, after the Roman Empire is divided into 10, the iron still remains.

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No one alive today is responsible for the events of the past over, say 100 years ago.

What matters is what we do once these things are revealed.

What I am saying is, that the day of salvation is coming to a close and the door will be shut.

The end may only be months or a few short years away.

The end will come after Jerusalem falls.

I don't know when that will happen. But when it comes, it will come quickly.

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Much of the misunderstanding surrounding the Roman 4th beast nation of Dan. 7 and the Roman iron nation of Dan. 2 timeline is because of the definition of the entities involved by modern investigators. 

Some examples would be,

1, The trouble/tribulation, the trib period is the entire time that Rome rules over the children of Israel, 63 BC - 1967. It is centuries and not a few years in the future.

Jesus, John the Baptist, and the apostles all lived during the reign of the iron Roman 4th beast and the mark of the Roman beast.

 

2. The mark of the beast is the mark of Rome and Caesar worship.

600...Satan

060...Rome

006...Caesar

666...Satan, Rome, and the man Caesar combined

 

3. The Antichrist is Caesar, the image Antichrist is the Bishop of Rome.

Caesar worship is the common thread. Man is god, worship the creation, worship nature, worship yourself, anything but worship the true God/Jesus.

It was revealed to the children of Israel that the 4th beast was Rome and Caesar is the Antichrist when the temple and Jerusalem were trampled and the people scattered in the 70 AD time period.

When the Roman Empire died, the image empire emerged from the 10 nations as the 8th head, Rev 17. 

 

4. The millennium 1000 year time period is not a literal number. 

It is the time that the Roman dragon nation is bound. The Roman dragon is bound in the fact that the children of Israel could not be destroyed while they were scattered into the gentile nations after 70 AD until 1967. (Also seen in Rev 12)

The Pentecost gospel kingdom of Israel/(church) is ruled by the scriptures during that time. The scriptures were written by those souls who were resurrected with Jesus and they rule the kingdom through them.

The planet earth is not transformed into a sinless garden of Eden.

 

5. The trib period begins in 63 BC. The ruling of Jesus and the OT saints begins at the resurrection of Jesus in 33 AD.

That means that the 2 timelines run at the same time, both the trib and the mill reign.

The Scriptures and the Revelation are centered on Jesus and the flesh of Jacob/Israel, both believing Christians and unbelieving broken branches.

The trib period involves both believing and unbelieving Israel. It is the result of the broken branches rejecting the Pentecost gospel kingdom. 

At the same time, the Christian flesh children of Israel are enjoying the relationship with God, Jesus, and the gift of the Holy Spirit under the new covenant.

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All of these events are shown in the Dan. 2 statue and the beasts in Dan. 7.

At the time when Daniel was written, many details of these events were not shown.

The NT letters and the Revelation give many of the unknown details.

The trib and mill timelines, and all others, must fit in to the Daniel 2 & 7 timelines.

Understand how they fit together reveals the truth.

The first truth is that Rome is the beast nation that continually rules over the children of Israel for centuries.

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Dan. 2 & 7, The same?

Consider the verses about the kingdom, the new covenant kingdom of Israel.

Dan. 2:44, Dan. 7:13-14.

When did the new covenant kingdom begin? Pentecost in 33 AD., with the gift of the Spirit new covenant.

This pinpoints another anchor in the timeline, 33 AD.

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If you take the Dan. 2 statue and decide where 33 AD would be in the timeline, then know that the Pentecost gospel Spiritual kingdom of Israel began there.

The point would be just a few inches after the Roman iron began in 63 BC., about 100 years.

This would be the point where the kingdom begins to "break in pieces" and "consume" the rest of the statue.

The is confirmed by the history of Israel and the gospel message of salvation under the new covenant. 

The Pentecost gospel kingdom consumes Rome and the gentile nations. Not completely, as the statue continues it's domination of Israel, but among those gentile nations, souls are translated into Spiritual kingdom of Israel, Col 1:13. (You might notice that the passage does not tell what the material that God's kingdom is made of like gold, etc., that is because the gospel kingdom that consumes and translates is a spiritual kingdom and not a kingdom after the flesh.) 

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The reason that this is important is that the kingdom has been here on this planet for 2000 years ish. The statue does not show a material kingdom on this planet, because the iron dominates the children of Israel until the toes end, just before the stone strikes.

After the stone strikes, the judgement of the good gospel spiritual kingdom wheat, and sinful chaff gentile nations, takes place in a parallel to Rev 20:11-15.

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In Dan. 7:13-14, it shows the ascent of Jesus after His resurrection to the throne of the Father. Then He is given a kingdom.

The kingdom that Jesus is given is the new covenant gospel kingdom of Israel.

That kingdom began on Pentecost in 33 AD. This puts one anchor of the 4th beast in 33 AD.

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Linking these 2 timeline anchor passages about the beginning of the new covenant kingdom together in 33 AD is another reason to say that the nations of the Dan. 2 and Dan.7 are the same nations.

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The timeline anchors in 33 AD show that the iron 4th beast is Rome.

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Can you imagine, that any Christian spiritual child of Israel would support the beast? Or defend the Roman iron beast nation and the Caesar Antichrist?

Many evangelicals are without knowing it.

Anytime someone says, "The beast is not Rome", is defending the beast, hiding the beast nation.

When someone says, "The Antichrist has not been here for 2000 years and is yet to come", is hiding the Antichrist's real identity as Caesar and his beast nation. 

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Someone may say, "What is the stone striking? Isn't that when the kingdom is set up, begins"?

The kingdom was started on Pentecost in 33 AD. It will begin it's transformation to its eternal set up form, after the last judgment and the kingdom is delivered up to the Father.

The stone striking is when Jesus comes for the finished Pentecost gospel kingdom of Israel at the resur/rapt, which is about to happen.

The kingdom began on Pentecost in 33 AD.

The gospel kingdom of Israel is finished when Jesus comes for us at the resur/rapt and then the gospel new covenant door is shut forever. 

The statue of Dan. 2:35 shows this as the chaff being blown away and that no place was found for them (souls).

In Rev 20:11, the old heavens and earth (literally) flying away and no place is found for them.

 So the stone striking in Dan. 2 is not the beginning of the kingdom, but the resur/rapt end of the kingdom on planet earth, just before the last judgment shown in Rev 20 and the new heavens and new earth of eternity.

Specifically, the stone striking in Dan. 2, is the fire from heaven of Rev 20:9.

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[Revelation Man]

On 11/30/2022 at 12:36 PM, Vine Abider said:

Many, if not most, seem to think they are essentially the same empires, but I think there's good reason for saying the one in chapter 7 pertains more to end times than ancient kingdoms,  like is depicted in chapter 2.

Here are some reasons:

They  are the same, Dan. 7 just gives us a more descriptive answer because the angel Gabriel is explaining this for Daniel, not for King Nebuchadnezzar through Daniel. At the end I will show you why the Fourth Beast is merely interrupted by the Church Age and why there are really 5 Beasts not 4 and how Gabriel reveals this in subtle ways, without letting the cat out of the bag so to speak.

On 11/30/2022 at 12:36 PM, Vine Abider said:

Here are some reasons:

1.     It makes little sense that the first three beasts would be ancient kingdoms, since the 4^th beast and the rest of the chapter all pertain to end times (i.e., final judgement, the Son of Man coming in the clouds and the kingdom dominion – chapter 12:9,10, 13, 14)

Both Dan. 2 and Dan. 7 shows the Saints taking over and ruling. In Dan. 2 the Stone is cut out of the mountain and smashes the statues feet base. In Dan. 7:27 the kingdom  is given to the Saints because as Dan. 7:11 says the Beast (A.C.) is cast into hell. SAME THING different person being informed. The dreams were all given by God.

On 11/30/2022 at 12:36 PM, Vine Abider said:

2.     Verse 7 says – “These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which SHALL arise out of the earth.”  If Babylon was one of those beasts (as many suppose the 1^st beast is), it would not say “shall arise” as this would make little sense, since Babylon was in existence when Daniel received this vision.

It is Babylon, arising is a verb, they were still arising as a kingdom, we also get translations that sometimes need to be studied, the easier way is to do what Isaiah says, Line upon Line, Precept upon Precept, here a little there a little. Men make booboos, in translations, in interpretations etc., that is why we got Four Gospels. Thus we can look at 10 different angles and come to one consensus on all things. Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome were the Four Beasts, there is a 5th however, and he has to be a "Kind of Son" to the Fourth Beast as I will show below. So, your intuition is not wrong, just misplaced a wee bit.

 

On 11/30/2022 at 12:36 PM, Vine Abider said:

3.     After the 4^th beast (antichrist) is destroyed, the other three remain as stated in verse 12 – “As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but an extension of life was granted to them for an appointed period of time.”  Therefore, the other three kingdoms must have existed during the reign of antichrist.*

And I knew this is why the NUMBER 2 point above was made. Seen this many times. When we understand Gabriel so much as tells us thee are 5 Beasts, which come out of Four Beasts we can then finally get it, God loves His riddles. One of the best is the 8th King of Rev. 17 it is merely Apollyon a demon who is the Scarlet Colored Beast. 

WAIT........I must have missed your point above, so you think the Anti-Christ came long ago? (I maybe just conflated something) Verse 12 is about how each Beast Kingdom was allowed to live on, just not as a Kingdom with Dominion. So, lets go to 10,000 feet and look at this afresh.

In verse 11 the Anti-Christ is cast into hell, his body destroyed, just like in Rev. 19:20. But in Dan. 7:12 it then states this:

12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

So, Babylon lost Dominion to Persia, but LIVED ON, heck Alexander the Great made his home there and died there !! So, yes they indeed lived on for a time and season. All of the others still live on, Persia is Iran today, Greece is Greece and basically Rome is Italy. The E.U. will be the 10 (means Completion) kings thus all Europe = the 10, that is where the A.C. will arise from, born in Greece with Assyrian blood.

So, those kingdoms living on for a time and season does not mean they were all Beast Kingdoms when the A.C. lived, just all still entities, save Babylon. 

On 11/30/2022 at 12:36 PM, Vine Abider said:

4.     We see these beasts again in Revelation 13, which is about an end time scenario.  (the beasts in that chapter seemed to have morphed into one beast – “The beast that I saw was like a leopard. Its feet were like bear’s feet, and its mouth was like a lion’s mouth.”)

Not really, this is John via Jesus giving us the whole set up. 

Rev. 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns(Figurative Beast), and upon his horns ten crowns(E.U.), and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard(Greece), and his feet were as the feet of a bear(Persia), and his mouth as the mouth of a lion(Babylon): and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

{{ Here John is letting his readers know this is the same beast system that ruled over Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region 6 other times via Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome..........but he only gives Daniel's Beasts, and he does so by giving Greece first because John is looking back in time. He gives the Two Rome Beasts last because one is yet to arise.}} 

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death(Rome, we the Church turned Rome from a Beast unto a Conveyor Belt of the Gospel via Pax Romanus); and his deadly wound was healed(the Anti-Christ then Conquers the whole region again including Israel, of course): and all the world wondered after the beast.

So, this figurative 7 Headed Beast went away, the Church could not be overcome by the gates of Hell, but when the A.C. Conquers Israel, after the Pre Trib Rapture, the Mortal Wound is healed, the Beast System once again ARISES and rules over Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region: John is just showing what the 7 Headed Beast System wrought from Egypt to Rome and what the coming Anti-Christ will soon bring forth.

On 11/30/2022 at 12:36 PM, Vine Abider said:

*Popular interpretation of these 4 beasts is that the first is Babylon, the second is the Medo/Persian empire, the third is the Greek/Alexander empire and the fourth is the Roman empire.  But while it’s possible to ascribe these beasts to those ancient empires, it doesn’t negate that it could also apply in latter times as well.

Well it does sir, most just miss the 5th Beast, if Rome was a Beast and it was, then how is the LAST BEAST in both Daniel 7:11 and Rev. 19:20 called "A MAN" ? Because he is a 5th Beast, whose Kingdom on a Map will look just like his papas kingdom, and we can see this by reading Dan. 11:40-43 who he conquers.

Here is the key point, Gabriel shows a 5th Beast himself. In Dan. 7:3 we are told all of the Beasts are DIFFERENT/Diverse. Well, OK.

Dan. 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. (So, it goes without saying that ALL of the Beasts are different or diverse from each other. REMEMBER THAT BELOW.)

 

Dan. 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms,(goes without saying, ALL were diverse) and shall devour the whole earth (being spoken of via the 7 Heads in the Mediterranean Sea Region ONLY), and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings(E.U.) that shall arise: and another shall rise after them(The Little Horn, The Beast or The coming Anti-Christ); and he shall be diverse from the first(Rome) , and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time (HE rules for 42 months).

See how Gabriel tells us there are 5 Beasts? The HE.........is a Beast unto himself, just like Dan. 7:11 and Rev. 19:20 says. He is not different from Babylon, they were ALL DIFFERENT, the HE is the Anti-Christ Beast and HE will be different from Rome, in that Rome was a Kingdom with many rulers, but he will both ARISE as a Beast and FALL as a Beast unlike any of the other beasts. That is the secret John is telling us in Rev. 17, where 5 have fallen (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece) and ONE IS (Rome) and one is YET TO COME (The Anti-Christ)  They are all Mountains or Powers who ARISE...........then they all had Kings who FELL (of course, each Kingdom will have a king over them when they fall also) But Rome had yet to fall, but that of course had to happen. The Last Beast both arises and falls, thus he is a MAN not a Kingdom per se. This is what I truly think 666 means, its the Number of man, so God is merely telling us your last Beast will be ONE MAN (666), his rule will be very short, only 42 months. 

 

Now, looking at Rome in 117 AD and looking at the E.U. now and the Nations in the Mediterranean Sea Region she currently has Agreements with(7 year agreements at that), and who she conquers in Dan. 11:40-43, we can see why God says the 10 that arise (the E.U.), who eventually elect the Anti-Christ to be their E.U. President via the E.U Parliament, will be the continuation of the Fourth Beast, but the E.U. will elect a MAN BEAST (a 5th Beast which Rev. 17:12 says they freely give their power unto, which means he is elected). They will look exactly alike on a map.

 

Rome 117 AD

 

European Neighborhood Policy Map

 

 

This is why they are the SAME but DIFFERENT, the Landmass will be exactly the same, but the 5th Beast will have one man arise and one man who falls. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Revelation Man

[Vine Abider]

9 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

They  are the same, Dan. 7 just gives us a more descriptive answer because the angel Gabriel is explaining this for Daniel, not for King Nebuchadnezzar through Daniel. At the end I will show you why the Fourth Beast is merely interrupted by the Church Age and why there are really 5 Beasts not 4 and how Gabriel reveals this in subtle ways, without letting the cat out of the bag so to speak.

Both Dan. 2 and Dan. 7 shows the Saints taking over and ruling. In Dan. 2 the Stone is cut out of the mountain and smashes the statues feet base. In Dan. 7:27 the kingdom  is given to the Saints because as Dan. 11 says the Beast (A.C.) is cast into hell. SAME THING different person being informed. The dreams were all given by God.

It is Babylon, arising is a verb, they were still arising as a kingdom, we also get translations tat sometimes need to be studied, the easier was is to do what Isaiah says, Line upon Line, Precept upon Precept, here a little there a little. Men make booboos, in translations, in interpretations etc., that is why we got Four Gospels. Thus we can look at 10 different angles and come to one consensus on all things. Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome were the Four Beasts, there is a 5th however, and he has to be a "Kind of Son" to the Fourth Beast as I will show below. So, your intuition is not wrong, just misplaced a wee bit.

 

And I knew this is why the NUMBER 2 point above was made. Seen this many times. When we understand Gabriel so much as tells us thee are 5 Beasts, which come out of Four Beasts we can get it, God loves His riddles. One of the best is the 8th King of Rev. 17 it is merely Apollyon a demon who is the Scarlet Colored Beast. 

WAIT........I must have missed your point above, so you think the Anti-Christ came long ago? Verse 12 is about how each Beast Kingdom was allowed to live on, just not as a Kingdom with Dominion. So, lets got to 10,000 feet and loot at this afresh.

In verse 11 the Anti-Christ is cast into hell, his body destroyed, just like in Rev. 19:20. But in Dan. 7:12 it then states this:

12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

So, Babylon lost Dominion to Persia, but LIVED ON, heck Alexander the Great made his home there and died there !! So, yes they indeed lived on for a time and season. All of the others still live on, Persia is Iran today, Greece is Greece and basically Rome is Italy. The E.U. will be the 10 (means Completion) kings this all Europe = the 10, that is where the A.C. will arise from, born in Greece with Assyria blood.

So, those kingdoms living on fir a time and season does not mean they were all Beast Kingdoms when the A.C. lived.

Not really, this is John via Jesus giving us the whole set up. 

Rev. 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns(Figurative Beast), and upon his horns ten crowns(E.U.), and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard(Greece), and his feet were as the feet of a bear(Persia), and his mouth as the mouth of a lion(Babylon): and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. {{ Here John is letting his readers know this is the same beast system that ruled over Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region 6 other times via Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome..........but he only gives Daniel's Beasts, and he does so by giving Greece first because John is looking back in time. He gives the Two Rome Beasts last because one is yet to arise.}} 

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death(Rome, we the Church turned Rome from a Beast unto a Conveyor Belt of the Gospel via Pax Romanus); and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

So, this figurative 7 Headed Beast went away, the Church could not be overcome by the gates of Hell, but when the A.C. Conquers Israel, after the Pre Trib Rapture, the Mortal Wound is healed, the Beast System once again ARISES and rules over Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region: John is just showing what the 7 Headed Beast System wrought from Egypt to Rome and what the coming Anti-Christ will soon bring forth.

Well it does sir, most just miss the 5th Bast, if Rome was a Beast and it was, then how is the LAST BEAST in both Dan. 7:11 and Rev. 19:20 called "A MAN" ? Because he is a 5th Beast, whose Kingdom on a Map will look just like his papas kingdom, and we can see this by reading Dan. 11:40-43 who he conquers.

Here is the keep point Gabriel shows a 5th Beast himself. In Dan. 7:3 we are told all of the Beasts are DIFFERENT/Diverse. Well, OK.

3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. (So, it goes without saying that ALL of the Beasts are different or diverse from each other. REMEMBER THAT BELOW.)

Dan. 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms,(goes without saying, ALL were diverse) and shall devour the whole earth (being spoken of via the 7 Heads in the Mediterranean Sea Region ONLY), and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings(E.U.) that shall arise: and another shall rise after them(The Little Horn, The Beast or The coming Anti-Christ); and he shall be diverse from the first(Rome) , and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

See how Gabriel tells us there are 5 Beasts? The HE.........is a Beast unto himself, just like Dan. 7:11 and Rev. 19:20 says. He is not different from Babylon, they were ALL DIFFERENT, the HE is the Anti-Christ Beast and HE will be different from Rome, in that Rome was a Kingdom with many rulers, but he will both ARISE as a Beast and FALL as a Beast unlike any of the other beasts. That is the secret John is telling us in Rev. 17, where 5 have fallen (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece) and ONE IS (Rome) and one is YET TO COME (The Anti-Christ)  They are all Mountains or Powers who ARISE...........then they all had Kings who FELL (of course, each Kingdom will have a king over them when they fall also) But Rome had yet to fall, but that of course had to happen. The Last Beast both arises and falls, thus he is a MAN not a Kingdom per se. This is what In truly think 666 means, its the Number of man, so God is merely telling us your last Beast will be ONE MAN, his rule will be very short, only 42 months. 

 

Now, looking at Rome in 117 AD and looking at the E.U. now and the Nations in the Mediterranean Sea Region she currently has Agreements with, and who she conquers in Dan. 11:40-43, we can see why God says the 10 that arise (the E.U.), who eventually elect the Anti-Christ to be their E.U. President, will be the continuation of the Fourth Beast, but will elect a MAN BEAST (5th Beast). They will look exactly alike on a map.

 

Rome 117 AD

 

European Neighborhood Policy Map

 

 

This is why they are the SAME but DIFFERENT, the Landmass will be exactly the same, but the 5th Beast will have one man arise and one man who falls. 

Thanks for that thoughtful and extensive reply - gives me something to chew on over the next couple weeks! @Marilyn C any thoughts here in the mean time?

[abcdef]

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

They  are the same, Dan. 7 just gives us a more descriptive answer because the angel Gabriel is explaining this for Daniel, not for King Nebuchadnezzar through Daniel. At the end I will show you why the Fourth Beast is merely interrupted by the Church Age and why there are really 5 Beasts not 4 and how Gabriel reveals this in subtle ways, without letting the cat out of the bag so to speak.

Both Dan. 2 and Dan. 7 shows the Saints taking over and ruling. In Dan. 2 the Stone is cut out of the mountain and smashes the statues feet base. In Dan. 7:27 the kingdom  is given to the Saints because as Dan. 7:11 says the Beast (A.C.) is cast into hell. SAME THING different person being informed. The dreams were all given by God.

It is Babylon, arising is a verb, they were still arising as a kingdom, we also get translations that sometimes need to be studied, the easier way is to do what Isaiah says, Line upon Line, Precept upon Precept, here a little there a little. Men make booboos, in translations, in interpretations etc., that is why we got Four Gospels. Thus we can look at 10 different angles and come to one consensus on all things. Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome were the Four Beasts, there is a 5th however, and he has to be a "Kind of Son" to the Fourth Beast as I will show below. So, your intuition is not wrong, just misplaced a wee bit.

 

And I knew this is why the NUMBER 2 point above was made. Seen this many times. When we understand Gabriel so much as tells us thee are 5 Beasts, which come out of Four Beasts we can then finally get it, God loves His riddles. One of the best is the 8th King of Rev. 17 it is merely Apollyon a demon who is the Scarlet Colored Beast. 

WAIT........I must have missed your point above, so you think the Anti-Christ came long ago? (I maybe just conflated something) Verse 12 is about how each Beast Kingdom was allowed to live on, just not as a Kingdom with Dominion. So, lets go to 10,000 feet and look at this afresh.

In verse 11 the Anti-Christ is cast into hell, his body destroyed, just like in Rev. 19:20. But in Dan. 7:12 it then states this:

12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

So, Babylon lost Dominion to Persia, but LIVED ON, heck Alexander the Great made his home there and died there !! So, yes they indeed lived on for a time and season. All of the others still live on, Persia is Iran today, Greece is Greece and basically Rome is Italy. The E.U. will be the 10 (means Completion) kings thus all Europe = the 10, that is where the A.C. will arise from, born in Greece with Assyrian blood.

So, those kingdoms living on for a time and season does not mean they were all Beast Kingdoms when the A.C. lived, just all still entities, save Babylon. 

Not really, this is John via Jesus giving us the whole set up. 

Rev. 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns(Figurative Beast), and upon his horns ten crowns(E.U.), and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard(Greece), and his feet were as the feet of a bear(Persia), and his mouth as the mouth of a lion(Babylon): and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

{{ Here John is letting his readers know this is the same beast system that ruled over Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region 6 other times via Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome..........but he only gives Daniel's Beasts, and he does so by giving Greece first because John is looking back in time. He gives the Two Rome Beasts last because one is yet to arise.}} 

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death(Rome, we the Church turned Rome from a Beast unto a Conveyor Belt of the Gospel via Pax Romanus); and his deadly wound was healed(the Anti-Christ then Conquers the whole region again including Israel, of course): and all the world wondered after the beast.

So, this figurative 7 Headed Beast went away, the Church could not be overcome by the gates of Hell, but when the A.C. Conquers Israel, after the Pre Trib Rapture, the Mortal Wound is healed, the Beast System once again ARISES and rules over Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region: John is just showing what the 7 Headed Beast System wrought from Egypt to Rome and what the coming Anti-Christ will soon bring forth.

Well it does sir, most just miss the 5th Beast, if Rome was a Beast and it was, then how is the LAST BEAST in both Daniel 7:11 and Rev. 19:20 called "A MAN" ? Because he is a 5th Beast, whose Kingdom on a Map will look just like his papas kingdom, and we can see this by reading Dan. 11:40-43 who he conquers.

Here is the key point, Gabriel shows a 5th Beast himself. In Dan. 7:3 we are told all of the Beasts are DIFFERENT/Diverse. Well, OK.

Dan. 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. (So, it goes without saying that ALL of the Beasts are different or diverse from each other. REMEMBER THAT BELOW.)

 

Dan. 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms,(goes without saying, ALL were diverse) and shall devour the whole earth (being spoken of via the 7 Heads in the Mediterranean Sea Region ONLY), and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings(E.U.) that shall arise: and another shall rise after them(The Little Horn, The Beast or The coming Anti-Christ); and he shall be diverse from the first(Rome) , and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time (HE rules for 42 months).

See how Gabriel tells us there are 5 Beasts? The HE.........is a Beast unto himself, just like Dan. 7:11 and Rev. 19:20 says. He is not different from Babylon, they were ALL DIFFERENT, the HE is the Anti-Christ Beast and HE will be different from Rome, in that Rome was a Kingdom with many rulers, but he will both ARISE as a Beast and FALL as a Beast unlike any of the other beasts. That is the secret John is telling us in Rev. 17, where 5 have fallen (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece) and ONE IS (Rome) and one is YET TO COME (The Anti-Christ)  They are all Mountains or Powers who ARISE...........then they all had Kings who FELL (of course, each Kingdom will have a king over them when they fall also) But Rome had yet to fall, but that of course had to happen. The Last Beast both arises and falls, thus he is a MAN not a Kingdom per se. This is what I truly think 666 means, its the Number of man, so God is merely telling us your last Beast will be ONE MAN (666), his rule will be very short, only 42 months. 

 

Now, looking at Rome in 117 AD and looking at the E.U. now and the Nations in the Mediterranean Sea Region she currently has Agreements with(7 year agreements at that), and who she conquers in Dan. 11:40-43, we can see why God says the 10 that arise (the E.U.), who eventually elect the Anti-Christ to be their E.U. President via the E.U Parliament, will be the continuation of the Fourth Beast, but the E.U. will elect a MAN BEAST (a 5th Beast which Rev. 17:12 says they freely give their power unto, which means he is elected). They will look exactly alike on a map.

 

Rome 117 AD

 

European Neighborhood Policy Map

 

 

This is why they are the SAME but DIFFERENT, the Landmass will be exactly the same, but the 5th Beast will have one man arise and one man who falls. 

--

Where are we in the time of the statue in Dan. 2?

1. If we are in the time of the iron/clay toes, what is the date when the iron/clay feet divided into 10 iron/clay toes?

-

2. The statue shows that the Roman iron nation maintains its strength over the children of Israel continually from 63 BC until the end of the toes. The iron Roman nation does not stop and then start up again.

If we are in some period of the of the iron, that is continual, who was the iron nation at its beginning? 1000 yrs ago? 500 yrs ago? 200 yrs ago? Who is it right now? 

--

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, abcdef said:

Where are we in the time of the statue in Dan. 2?

1. If we are in the time of the iron/clay toes, what is the date when the iron/clay feet divided into 10 iron/clay toes?

10 means Completion, just like 12 means Fulness, 7 means Divine Completion, 8 means New Beginnings and 6 = Man, etc. etc. So, the 10 became divided Europe when Rome fell, that was the same thing Mortal Wound to the Figurative 7 Headed Beast in Rev. 13. The same thing as the 10 ARISING out of the head of the Fourth Beast, it simply means ALL or COMPLETE Europe reunited as one, thus it could by 8 or 21 or 27 Nations, the number does not matter as long as it is Complete Europe Reunited. For Instance, lets say Germany conquered and kept Austria, Belgium, The Chechs, Georgia, Croatia, Finland, Ukraine, and Poland, there would be "8 less Nations today" but when Germany became a part of the E.U. they would all still be a part of the 10 (Complete Europe) so numbers do nit matter, God is just Prophesying that ALL Europe will be united again, as Rome was basically all Europe over the Mediterranean Sea Nations.  A little tip, Rome and Greece basically ruled at the same time for many years. And the LAST BEAST, is a man mandated to be born in Greece (Dan. 8:9) but he comes to power out of the Fourth Beasts Head (E.U.) as Dan. 7:7-8 shows. 

As per unto where we are, the 10 (E.U.) are now a Nation and have been fir awhile, this MAN will arise as President just before the Rapture, or right after the Rapture to put forth his Agreement or covenant with Israel and THE MANY [Nations in the Region). The Iran, Russia and Turkey coalition will push them all into the E.U. Presidents hand. Then The Anti-Christ who BECOMES the Beast by CONQUERING Israel and the whole region as Dan. 11:40-43 shows us he will do, Heals the 7 Headed Figurative Beast, in other words Satan has placed another Kingdom/Man over Israel once again, with an order tom wipe out all of the Jews (Satan is a one trick pony on that.) 

 

2 hours ago, abcdef said:

. The statue shows that the Roman iron nation maintains its strength over the children of Israel continually from 63 BC until the end of the toes. The iron Roman nation does not stop and then start up again.

If we are in some period of the of the iron, that is continual, who was the iron nation at its beginning? 1000 yrs ago? 500 yrs ago? 200 yrs ago? Who is it right now? 

Not so brother, there was no Israel for nigh 2000 years, God told us this would happen in Ezekiel 37, He stated they would be "As Dead Men's Bones" until the very end of time when He would once again raise those dead bones up, and bring them out of ALL Nations, for His names sake alone, and He stated that when He did this that He would bring the "Whole House of Israel" out of the nations, so all of the 12 tribes are now living in Israel unless God lied (we know better than that don't we? Amen)

 

The Mortal Wound meant the 7 Headed Beast went away, it was indeed under water so to speak then arose out of the Sea in Rev. 13 because the Anti-Christ goes forth conquering, and he conquers Israel and THE MANY (The Whole Mediterranean Sea Region) and thus the Beast in the region is HEALED from the dead !!

Rome Lost Dominion over the Mediterranean Sea Region. REMEMBERM anytime you see the 7 Headed Beast it has to be over Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Regions collectively. The reason the Brits nor the Ottoman Empire are Beasts is there was no Israel in the land, the bible is about Israel. God saw Israel as Dead Men's Bones for 2000 years whist He used the mostly Gentile Church to spread the Gospel unto all of the Nations.

We are not in the Iron Beast Age that ended long ago, we are in NO BEAST AGE, until after the Rapture there can be no other Beast Age, we the Church have overcome the gates of hell. Only when God's Wrath falls does he allow the Anti-Christ to go forth Conquering and thus his conquering of Israel and the whole region qualifies him as a Beast over the Region in that he gains DOMINION over them. It is all about Dominion, and especially about Dominion over Israel. 

 

IMHO, we will be Raptured in the fall of 2025 because I see Apophis as the Middle of the Week (70th week) event, thus subtracting 3.5 years from April, 13, 2029 = The Fall of 2025. Thus we are not directly in any part of the Statue to be honest, in that the Stature represents Dominion over Israel. But we are very close to the Rapture which brings the Beast/Iron & Clay Statue to the fore. I say within 10 years Jesus will be ruling from Jerusalem.

Amen.

[Marilyn C]

8 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

Thanks for that thoughtful and extensive reply - gives me something to chew on over the next couple weeks! @Marilyn C any thoughts here in the mean time?

Hi Vine Abider,

Thank you for asking. Yes, I`ll make a few comments. 

1. Clearly Dan. 2 great Image is the `times of the Gentiles ` ruling the world. God reveals that He judges each one giving the Babylon government as an example. 

`God has numbered your kingdom, (rule) and finished it; ...you have been weighed in the balances and found wanting...your kingdom, (rule) has been divided and given to the Medes and Persians.` (Dan. 5: 26 - 28)

We know that the first four governments have been judged by God and are no more. That has nothing to do with land mass and people today as life goes on and rulers change. However, the 4 governments that ruled the known world in the past have all been judged and are no more.

The final government ruling, especially in the Middle East, as the Great Image was standing before the King of Babylon, will be of that region.

2. Dan. 7 also reveals the Gentiles ruling, but looking to the final Gentile Global Government just before the Lord sets up His rulership through Israel as promised.

It does correspond to the Rev. 13 composite beastly kingdom rulership. Daniel reveals how these kingdom/Federations started, while in Rev. 13 John is shown how they operate together. 

3. Clearly today we can see that the EU is part of the West, (UK & Commonwealth, USA & EU) which control the G7, G20 & UN. Nothing to be fearful there and no one there is -

`dreadful, and terrible, exceedingly strong....devouring, breaking in pieces and trampling...` the others. (Dan. 7: 7)

Can we see the EU treading down the British Commonwealth & America, let alone Russia, & Islam, etc. 

There is however a terrifying beastly Federation that has yet to fully form, and parts of it are already revealing their terrible cruel actions. Around the world we see the volatile group killing, torturing and cruelly treating its victims. 

Marilyn.   

[Marilyn C]

5 hours ago, abcdef said:

--

Where are we in the time of the statue in Dan. 2?

1. If we are in the time of the iron/clay toes, what is the date when the iron/clay feet divided into 10 iron/clay toes?

-

2. The statue shows that the Roman iron nation maintains its strength over the children of Israel continually from 63 BC until the end of the toes. The iron Roman nation does not stop and then start up again.

If we are in some period of the of the iron, that is continual, who was the iron nation at its beginning? 1000 yrs ago? 500 yrs ago? 200 yrs ago? Who is it right now? 

--

Hi abcdef,

I`ll also comment. We are in the times of the Gentiles ruling the world - From Babylon to Islam.

1. Yes, we are in the time of the iron/clay feet & toes about to come together under there Ruler. The final Gentile Global Government will come together with 10 emirs from Islam halfway through the tribulation. (Rev. 17: 12,  13: 5) 

2. God has judged all the past rulers of the world kingdoms and those governments are no more. Yes, land and people are still here, but God was & is dealing with World GOVERNMENTS/RULERS.

The rapture is very, very close. Look to the Lord and trust Him.

Marilyn.