Reconciling 6 Days with 13.7 Billion Years

[DeighAnn]

6 hours ago, BeyondET said:

I've wondered about that myself why not like instant oatmeal or something I do completely believe its possible. But if God lives an infinite life why would He create so fast. I would assume there would be much joy in watching a blade of grass grow than a presto planet. then again that long of a life creating for a 13 billion years span would be vastly less than a blink of an eye.

The verse is interesting is that heaven or heavens or are they both the same?

I think it has to do with the way the Hebrew is translated or something 'as the official' version, but I personally think it might have to do with the heaven that went dark when the first age ended and 're created' with Sun and moon for this one, but this is speculation on my part, so please take it as such.  

[DeighAnn]

6 hours ago, BeyondET said:

I've wondered about that myself why not like instant oatmeal or something I do completely believe its possible. But if God lives an infinite life why would He create so fast.

I think God took a really long time creating everything the first time and I think He had a blast in doing to.  I think the heavens testify by their sheer numbers and I think it would be 'confusing' for us 'made of the dust sottish souls'.  If we are to 'come as little children' then I think the 'what we see is what we get' kind of approach is the most accurate, again, MY OPINION.   

[TrueFollowerOfChrist]

Personally I have done lots of study on this subject and I believe evolution is the #1 barrier to bringing people to God. I have read our listened to every single claim I can find to prove that evolution is true. I also listen to everything creationists say.  I weigh the science and logic against what scripture says. I'm NOT claiming to be an expert.  My belief based on Scripture,  Science,  and Logic is that MacroEvolution is 100% false.  Evolutionists use faulty methods and lots of imagination to propose their theories.  Also,  scripture says DAYS in Genesis and if God didn't mean days,  he could have used other words. No one looking at the clear plain text of scripture would think God meant anything other than literal 24 hour days. Even leading Evolutionists have admitted problems with Darwins theories and conveniently ignore major holes in the theory. And since it's the only legal side that's allowed to be taught in school,  it's no surprise that most people believe in it. However pastors and parents are not doing their job if they honestly allow people to believe such a dangerous lie. 

[Vine Abider]

11 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Let's use the Ruin-Reconstruction Theory instead of the more common Gap Theory. What if we take as that understanding and just insert it before Genesis 1:1, some proponents actually do this. It still needs to straighten out the Hebrew grammar and poetry. To understand what happened we'd have to study Psalm 82, Psalm 89, Job, Peter, Jude and the Divine Council.

So how does the Ruin-construction Theory differ?  Frankly I haven't kept up much with these things.

[BeyondET]

7 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

Personally I have done lots of study on this subject and I believe evolution is the #1 barrier to bringing people to God. I have read our listened to every single claim I can find to prove that evolution is true. I also listen to everything creationists say.  I weigh the science and logic against what scripture says. I'm NOT claiming to be an expert.  My belief based on Scripture,  Science,  and Logic is that MacroEvolution is 100% false.  Evolutionists use faulty methods and lots of imagination to propose their theories.  Also,  scripture says DAYS in Genesis and if God didn't mean days,  he could have used other words. No one looking at the clear plain text of scripture would think God meant anything other than literal 24 hour days. Even leading Evolutionists have admitted problems with Darwins theories and conveniently ignore major holes in the theory. And since it's the only legal side that's allowed to be taught in school,  it's no surprise that most people believe in it. However pastors and parents are not doing their job if they honestly allow people to believe such a dangerous lie. 

In English the word has about two meanings the day time amount of sunlight and day length. The Hebrew word for day is yom which has more than two meanings. One being an unknown length of time. Similar to evening and morning, dusk or dawn can only be known with a mechanical clock.

Edited December 18, 2022 by BeyondET

[BeyondET]

9 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I think it has to do with the way the Hebrew is translated or something 'as the official' version, but I personally think it might have to do with the heaven that went dark when the first age ended and 're created' with Sun and moon for this one, but this is speculation on my part, so please take it as such.  

Well I've read there's been some new studies that may suggest up to half the matter in the milky way galaxy came from a previous galaxy.

[The Barbarian]

8 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

Personally I have done lots of study on this subject and I believe evolution is the #1 barrier to bringing people to God. 

I've lived a lot of years as a Christian and a biologist and I know that creationism is a very efficient atheist-maker.    Many young people have told me that having been raised believing that creationism is an essential Christian doctrine, they lost their faith once they learned that YE creationism could not be true.    Creationism is certainly the #1 barrier to people coming to God.   Here's the testimony of one man lucky enough to have retained his faith:

But eventually, by 1994 I was through with young-earth creationISM. Nothing that young-earth creationists had taught me about geology turned out to be true. I took a poll of my ICR graduate friends who have worked in the oil industry. I asked them one question.

“From your oil industry experience, did any fact that you were taught at ICR, which challenged current geological thinking, turn out in the long run to be true?”

That is a very simple question. One man, Steve Robertson, who worked for Shell grew real silent on the phone, sighed and softly said ‘No!’ A very close friend that I had hired at Arco, after hearing the question, exclaimed, “Wait a minute. There has to be one!” But he could not name one. I can not name one. No one else could either. One man I could not reach, to ask that question, had a crisis of faith about two years after coming into the oil industry. I do not know what his spiritual state is now, but he was in bad shape the last time I talked to him.

And being through with creationism, I very nearly became through with Christianity. I was on the very verge of becoming an atheist.

https://peacefulscience.org/articles/glenn-morton/

8 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

My belief based on Scripture,  Science,  and Logic is that MacroEvolution is 100% false. 

Since we occasionally see it happen, your belief is false.    In fact, honest YE creationists admit that there is very good evidence for macroevolutionary theory.   Would you like me to show you some of them?

8 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

Also,  scripture says DAYS in Genesis and if God didn't mean days,  he could have used other words.

It was "yom" which can mean "day", "always", "in my time", "forever" and "unspecified length of time."  

Since a plain reading of scripture says that it's not a literal history, there really isn't any way to convert it to a week of 24-hour days.   (No sun to have mornings and evenings)

8 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

Evolutionists have admitted problems with Darwins theories and conveniently ignore major holes in the theory.

Interesting.   Let's talk about that.  Which of the four points of Darwin's theory or genetics (which was added to his theory in the 20th century) do you think has problems.   Be specific.

8 hours ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:

And since it's the only legal side that's allowed to be taught in school

It's that darned first amendment.   You can't preach religion in public schools.   Our nation was based on freedom of religion.     But do tell us about those holes in evolutionary theory, so we can talk about them.

 

 

 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Vine Abider said:

So how does the Ruin-construction Theory differ?  Frankly I haven't kept up much with these things.

I'm going to provide some links and then I will add relative information. These are from by David Reagan Lamb & Lion Ministries. I believe his Commentary is based on the Masoretic Text.

Sources:

David Reagan References on Creation (Part 1)

David Reagan References on Creation (Part 2)

David Reagan References on Creation (Part 3)

The Masoretic Text^[a] (MT or 𝕸; Hebrew: נֻסָּח הַמָּסוֹרָה, romanized: Nūssāḥ Hammāsōrā, lit. 'Text of the Tradition') is the authoritative Hebrew and Aramaic text of the 24 books of the Hebrew Bible (Tanakh) in Rabbinic Judaism. The Masoretic Text defines the Jewish canon and its precise letter-text, with its vocalization and accentuation known as the mas'sora. Referring to the Masoretic Text, mesorah specifically means the diacritic markings of the text of the Hebrew scriptures and the concise marginal notes in manuscripts (and later printings) of the Tanakh which note textual details, usually about the precise spelling of words. It was primarily copied, edited and distributed by a group of Jews known as the Masoretes between the 7th and 10th centuries of the Common Era (CE). The oldest known complete copy, the Leningrad Codex, dates from the early 11th century CE.

The differences attested to in the Dead Sea Scrolls indicate that multiple versions of the Hebrew scriptures already existed by the end of the Second Temple period.^[1] Which is closest to a theoretical Urtext is disputed, as is whether such a singular text ever existed.^[2] The Dead Sea Scrolls, dating to as early as the 3rd century BCE, contain versions of the text that are radically different from today's Hebrew Bible.^[3][1] The Septuagint (a Koine Greek translation made in the 3rd and 2nd centuries BCE) and the Peshitta (a Syriac translation made in the 2nd century CE) occasionally present notable differences from the Masoretic Text, as does the Samaritan Pentateuch, the text of the Torah preserved by the Samaritans in Samaritan Hebrew.^[4] Fragments of an ancient manuscript of the Book of Leviticus found near an ancient synagogue's Torah ark in Ein Gedi have identical wording to the Masoretic Text.^[5]

The Masoretic Text is the basis for most Protestant translations of the Old Testament such as the King James Version, English Standard Version, New American Standard Version, and New International Version.^{[citation needed]} After 1943, it has also been used for some Catholic Bibles, such as the New American Bible and the New Jerusalem Bible.^{[citation needed]} Some Christian denominations instead prefer translations of the Septuagint as it matches quotations in the New Testament.^[6]

This is where Dr. Heiser and has a different understanding of Genesis 1:1-3. While both Dr. Heiser and Dr. David Reagan use the Masoretic Text, at least in Genesis Dr. Heiser is not using the using the diacritic markings believing they may have been added later.  Dr. Reagan is a Gap Theory Proponent while Dr. Heiser takes no position on the matter.

Every time I get asked about the Gap Theory, I try to use a different resource. I've read over a dozen books on the theory, several on the Day-Age, and several on YEC.

Source: Genesis

Edited December 18, 2022 by Saved.One.by.Grace

[DeighAnn]

7 minutes ago, BeyondET said:

Well I've read there's been some new studies that may suggest up to half the matter in the milky way galaxy came from a previous galaxy.

All I know is NO BEGINNING is a really really long time to be GOD and capable of EVERYTHING and I know if it was me, I would have billions of galaxies and billions of galaxies that I spoke right back out of existence too.  

So, as you can see, it wouldn't surprise me a bit. 





 

[BeyondET]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

All I know is NO BEGINNING is a really really long time to be GOD and capable of EVERYTHING and I know if it was me, I would have billions of galaxies and billions of galaxies that I spoke right back out of existence too.  

So, as you can see, it wouldn't surprise me a bit. 





 

How but billions of universes, and it took that many to get to this universe.

Speaking on creation nothing would be to surprising a bit of awestruck, anything is possible.