Reconciling 6 Days with 13.7 Billion Years

[FreeGrace]

12 hours ago, BeyondET said:

The waters was separated first into two distinct places. Then the dryland appeared for which God calls earth and the waters He calls seas thus planet earth.

And all of this is about restoration of a wasted planet.

12 hours ago, BeyondET said:

There's no contradiction God separated the waters and because of the separation things started from scratch solar system formation.

No, the universe was spoken into existence when God spoke it into existence.  Psa 33:9 says so.  Genesis 1 is about restoration.  

12 hours ago, BeyondET said:

Like the gold in your body that keeps the electrical current moving and joints operating everything of earth started somewhere else in another form. Billions of years ago though God knows where every atom was or to be all the way to the end of the heavens and earth.

Prove an old earth with 6 literal days of work.  And man appearing on the 6th day.  Be my guest.

[FreeGrace]

12 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

When we get to chapter 4, he is reporting on the RUIN of the Land! What he said had NOTHING to do with the Creation!

Of course he wasn't saying about creation, but he DID use the exact same words as found in Gen 1:2; "tohu wabohu".  And he wasn't describing the results of the disaster that occurred in the land as being "formless and empty".  That is nonsense.  An invading army doesn't make the land "formless".  It DESTROYS the land, makes it a wasteland.  
American Standard Version
I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was waste and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
I looked in the earth, and behold, chaos and emptiness, and to the Heavens, and their light is not there
English Revised Version
I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was waste and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Good News Translation
I looked at the earth--it was a barren waste; at the sky--there was no light. 
JPS Tanakh 1917
I beheld the earth, And, lo, it was waste and void; And the heavens, and they had no light.

New American Bible
I looked at the earth—it was waste and void; at the heavens—their light had gone out! 
NET Bible
"I looked at the land and saw that it was an empty wasteland. I looked up at the sky, and its light had vanished. 

New Revised Standard Version
I looked on the earth, and lo, it was waste and void; and to the heavens, and they had no light.
New Heart English Bible
I saw the earth, and, look, it was waste and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

World English Bible
I saw the earth and, behold, it was waste and void, and the heavens, and they had no light. 
Young's Literal Translation
I looked to the land, and lo, waste and void, And unto the heavens, and their light is not.

What is clear is that "tohu" cannot mean "formless" regardless of how many translators thought so.  An invading army destroys the land, makes it a wasteland, obviously.

12 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

He was talking about destruction (tohuw) and the desolation (vaVohuw) in the wake of the armies! Not even the birds stuck around because of all the fires and smoke! All of their food was wasted; the grapes were destroyed, the fields were burned, the houses were rifled and burnt, and the people were killed, raped, or taken captive! If one had a temporary shelter in a tent, that was destroyed by fire, as well!

Exactly!  Destruction, waste, etc.  Not "formless" as most translators goofed.

12 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Jeremiah 4:8-29 (NIV)

THIS is to what these verses are referring, not that other nonsense. 

If you really think that an invading and violent army renders the land as "formless", I guess there just isn't anything more to say.  You even accurately described what an invading army does to the land.

"He was talking about destruction (tohuw) and the desolation (vaVohuw) in the wake of the armies! Not even the birds stuck around because of all the fires and smoke! All of their food was wasted; the grapes were destroyed, the fields were burned, the houses were rifled and burnt, and the people were killed, raped, or taken captive! If one had a temporary shelter in a tent, that was destroyed by fire, as well!"

Your words.  None of this description results in the land becoming "formless".  Rather, it becomes a wasteland, unfit for residence, hence "wabohu", or desolation.

Same 2 words found in Gen 1:2, "tohu wabohu".  A desolate wasteland.  

Same result.  Same words.

No nonsense at all.  Just clear words from Scripture.

[DeighAnn]

13 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, DeighAnn.

Sorry, sister, but one MUST read Jeremiah through, particularly in a translation he or she understands. You see, Jeremiah was an EYE-WITNESS to the destruction of Jerusalem and the First Temple Solomon built. It was DEVASTATING to him to watch! That's why he is called "the Weeping Prophet." But, he was Providentially protected through the devastation, because, just prior to the invasion by Babylon, the king had thrown him in prison because his advice, based upon God's Revelation, was to surrender to the invaders! All the other "prophets" were saying that God would protect His city and His temple! For this, Jeremiah was labeled a traitor, and thrown in an empty cistern. God intervened, and although many were slain by the Babylonians, he was exempt from the slaughter.

When we get to chapter 4, he is reporting on the RUIN of the Land! What he said had NOTHING to do with the Creation! He was talking about destruction (tohuw) and the desolation (vaVohuw) in the wake of the armies! Not even the birds stuck around because of all the fires and smoke! All of their food was wasted; the grapes were destroyed, the fields were burned, the houses were rifled and burnt, and the people were killed, raped, or taken captive! If one had a temporary shelter in a tent, that was destroyed by fire, as well!

Jeremiah 4:8-29 (NIV)

5“Announce in Judah and proclaim in Jerusalem and say:

‘Sound the trumpet throughout the land!’

Cry aloud and say:

‘Gather together! Let us flee to the fortified cities!’

6 Raise the signal to go to Zion! Flee for safety without delay! For I am bringing disaster from the north, even terrible destruction.”

7 A lion has come out of his lair; a destroyer of nations has set out. He has left his place to lay waste your land. Your towns will lie in ruins without inhabitant. 8 So put on sackcloth, lament and wail, for the fierce anger of the Lord has not turned away from us.

9 “In that day,” declares the LORD, “the king and the officials will lose heart, the priests will be horrified, and the prophets will be appalled.”

10 Then I said,

“Alas, Sovereign Lord! How completely you have deceived this people and Jerusalem by saying, ‘You will have peace,’ when the sword is at our throats!”

11 At that time this people and Jerusalem will be told,

“A scorching wind from the barren heights in the desert blows toward my people, but not to winnow or cleanse; 12 a wind too strong for that comes from me. Now I pronounce my judgments against them.”

13 Look! He advances like the clouds, his chariots come like a whirlwind, his horses are swifter than eagles.

"Woe to us! We are ruined! 14 Jerusalem, wash the evil from your heart and be saved. How long will you harbor wicked thoughts? 15 A voice is announcing from Dan, proclaiming disaster from the hills of Ephraim."

16 “Tell this to the nations, proclaim concerning Jerusalem:

"‘A besieging army is coming from a distant land, raising a war cry against the cities of Judah. 17 They surround her like men guarding a field, because she has rebelled against me,’ ”

declares the LORD.

18 “Your own conduct and actions have brought this on you. This is your punishment. How bitter it is! How it pierces to the heart!”

19 Oh, my anguish, my anguish! I writhe in pain. Oh, the agony of my heart! My heart pounds within me, I cannot keep silent. For I have heard the sound of the trumpet; I have heard the battle cry. 20 Disaster follows disaster; the whole land lies in ruins. In an instant my tents are destroyed, my shelter in a moment. 21 How long must I see the battle standard and hear the sound of the trumpet?

22 “My people are fools; they do not know me. They are senseless children; they have no understanding. They are skilled in doing evil; they know not how to do good.”

23 I looked at the earth (Land), and it was formless and empty; and at the heavens (the skies), and their light was gone. 24 I looked at the mountains, and they were quaking (rippling); all the hills were swaying (wavering).

25 I looked, and there were no people; every bird in the sky had flown away.

26 I looked, and the fruitful land was a desert; all its towns lay in ruins before the LORD, before his fierce anger. 27 This is what the LORD says:

“The whole land will be ruined, though I will not destroy it completely. 28 Therefore the earth will mourn and the heavens above grow dark, because I have spoken and will not relent, I have decided and will not turn back.”

29 At the sound of horsemen and archers every town takes to flight. Some go into the thickets; some climb up among the rocks. All the towns are deserted; no one lives in them.

THIS is to what these verses are referring, not that other nonsense. 

And here we are NOT agreeing once again with WHAT ISN'T WRITTEN, you in favor of an explanation that has NOTHING to do with the actual words GOD used.  Ever heard of TYPES of the past for explanations of the future?  nothing new under the sun???

Now, IF you would have put it forth as a PROPHECY and NOT have put it forth as something HE HAD EXPERIENCED, 

YOUR

"Sorry, sister, but one MUST read Jeremiah through, particularly in a translation he or she understands. You see, Jeremiah was an EYE-WITNESS to the destruction of Jerusalem and the First Temple Solomon built. It was DEVASTATING to him to watch!"

wouldn't be just more of YOU TELLING ME WHAT YOU THINK.  

You can't help BUT ALWAYS 'seating' yourself in the upper rooms, can you? 

Once I get past your greeting and the first couple lines, I go straight to doubting anything that may follow as to 'a deeper truth' since you can't seem to master and implement the most basic 'know them by their fruit' because you immediately go from greeting to being a hypocrite of it. 

Don't say peace and then call me stupid aka "particularly in a translation he or she understands".  Makes me think of the donkey who could see but the rider being blind. 
   
What happened to the famous WORD FOR WORD explanation with definitions?  Not convenient for these verses?

ALL the earth didn't become formless and void, the city and temple were destroyed 
It wasn't SUDDENLY, like FIERCE anger from GOD it was SLOW like an army of men
It wasn't in a moment, it took years
The heavens retained their light the whole-time, the sun moon and stars kept shining every day and night, smoke or not
the mountains did not 'tremble',
and there were MEN left...JEREMIAH being one of them, wasn't he?

and as for birds, where the carcasses are...THAT IS HOW IT WORKS in this flesh world


Now, if I were reading it as a history book, and using a bunch of profane knowledge based upon a bunch of profane history books written by a bunch of men, then maybe, JUST maybe I might 'buy' that explanation

 I am sure there are others who ALSO believe GOD GOT EVERY WORD WRONG... I see a 'thumbs up' by 'the theory of evolution' already.  I am not going to tell you how you 'MUST' read it...that is what the Holy Spirit is for...and I won't tell you, you are incorrect either...just in case it is not 'a manmade explanation' only but a Holy Spirit led one...as I never want to blaspheme what the Holy Spirit puts forth by calling it "wrong" especially not doing so solely based on my current understanding.  That is a bunch of judgment I don't want to come at me come the judgment seat of Christ...I'll leave that to the 'world educated' preachers and pastors presently leading the EXODUS from the churches today because they can't seem to quite understand 

demanding a blind faith in the earth only being a couple thousand years old...BECAUSE THEY SAID SO when souls have their very own set of EYES and the words of God in their own hands.  Not much different than those in the days of Jesus when HE was bringing forth TRUTHS who couldn't get past themselves and their UPPER ROOM mentalities, unable to take them in

not to mention TRYING TO STOP WHAT WAS BEING POURED OUT... we have those same things taking place today.  They didn't even see their MESSIAH.  Today they don't see the KNOWLEDGE being opened up.  

what was will be again....and here we are

Do you know of anyone doing their very best to STOP any 'fishermen' from coming forth?  I do. 

What does it take to 'buy that field'?  Are you willing to SELL all you have?  I was.  I did.  


We SEE the words of God from very different perspectives.

So, do you have any answers to any of these questions through YOUR CURRENT BELIEFS?  I am not asking for MANS explanations but GODS WORDS themselves, IF POSSIBLE, since you claim the ones I do, are incorrect.  




WHERE did the SERPENT come from?  How did he get to be 'MORE SUBTIL'? 

When did that happen?

Why DIDN'T God ask him a SINGLE QUESTION?

When did the dragon cast a third part of the stars to the earth?

Why was the earth SITTING in darkness before God said 'let there be light'? 

 When did He SPEAK the earth into existence BEFORE THAT moment?

How LONG had it been sitting in darkness? 

Why was it tohu sitting there in the darkness? 

Had it been established in the darkness? 

And if it was, how did the sons of God and the MOURNING STARS know when to SING together, or all the sons of God to shout for joy?

OR did GOD USE ALL THE WRONG WORDS THERE TOO, AND DID HE REALLY MEAN SOMETHING ENTIRELY DIFFERENT, LIKE WHAT WAS PUT FORTH IN JEREMIAH?

And what kind of 'flesh' were those mourning stars and sons of God 'made of'? 
 

When was THE DAY the 'the anointed cherub' THAT COVERETH' who sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty and in Eden the garden of God with every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in  created???

When was he upon the holy mountain of God walking up and down in the midst of the stones of fire?

Knowing he was 'perfect in thy ways from the day he was created' till iniquity was found in him' How long do you think THAT lasted? A year, a thousand years, a million?  

We KNOW it happened because of "the multitude of thy merchandise"

WHICH "filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned" and caused God to "cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God"

and we know his FATE because God said

"and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee".

We also know he "defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick"

WHEN did all that happen?  

And most importantly, what DID GOD DO at that point?



 WAS, is, and IS TO COME.  







IS - presently HAS   A JERUSALEM and ISRAEL 



IS TO COME -  WILL HAVE A NEW JERUSALEM AND ISRAEL


WAS.


Any CHANCE you see a JERUSALEM with sons of God AND mourning stars disobeying and being STUPID and falling into deception?


For the sake of argument, let's say there was. 

WOULD THAT be written in words like

3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

 3605. kol 
Strong's Concordance
kol: the whole, all
Original Word: כֹּל
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: kol
Phonetic Spelling: (kole)
Definition: the whole, all

And those are my reasons for not being able to believe what was put forth and why.  I'll stick with GOD USES THE WORDS GOD WANTS TO CONVEY HIS TRUTH and doesn't use WORDS that don't.  

I use the words of God to speak on the words of God, not the words and knowledge of men TO EXPLAIN the words of God.  But I do understand why you wish I would quit using the Interlinear, Lexicon and Hebrew and Greek and go to some of 'the translations' instead....Brother
 

[BeyondET]

10 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

And all of this is about restoration of a wasted planet.

No, the universe was spoken into existence when God spoke it into existence.  Psa 33:9 says so.  Genesis 1 is about restoration.  

Prove an old earth with 6 literal days of work.  And man appearing on the 6th day.  Be my guest.

I don’t think God named earth twice and that's what your implying. God created the earth then it became a wasteland so God had to rename it earth again later on when the dryland was uncovered.

God is always working and man cannot work 7 days a week he would die without rest.

Edited July 2, 2023 by BeyondET

[JimmyB]

10 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

And all of this is about restoration of a wasted planet.

No, the universe was spoken into existence when God spoke it into existence.  Psa 33:9 says so.  Genesis 1 is about restoration.  

Prove an old earth with 6 literal days of work.  And man appearing on the 6th day.  Be my guest.

I know that you have convinced yourself about Genesis 1, but as I pointed out earlier, every single English translation disagrees with you.  Creation is not restoration.

[FreeGrace]

On 7/1/2023 at 4:37 PM, JimmyB said:

Why do you think that the six days are literal 24-hour days?  The Bible is a spiritual book, meant to teach God's wisdom, knowledge, and ways.  It is not a science textbook.

It's also quite literal in many places.  Yes, 6 24 hour days.  That's what "morning and evening" refer to.  btw, regarding science, the Bible is THE MOST ACCURATE book.

On 7/1/2023 at 4:37 PM, JimmyB said:

How was there light before the sun, moon, and stars were created?  Perhaps Genesis 1:3-5 were written to define what a day was to the Jews.

Or perhaps not.  What I know from the Hebrew is that after God created the earth, it BECAME a wasteland, all without details, because God didn't provide any details.  So Gen 1:2ff is a summary of a restoration over a period of 6 literal days.

[FreeGrace]

On 7/1/2023 at 5:35 PM, BeyondET said:

Earth was part of the waters above before being formed into a planet.

How do you know that?  Genesis doesn't say that.

On 7/1/2023 at 5:35 PM, BeyondET said:

Yom in Hebrew can mean multiple lengths and is represented in Hebrew scriptures as such not just what the English language of a day is which is pretty much 24 hours. The Bible doesn't say how long the Yoms of creation was. And I don't believe each day was a literal 24 hour day but a day nonetheless that is much longer like the galactic tick, lights in the expanse are for days years and seasons also.

the created stars are the other planets in the solar system separate from the lights in the galaxy expanse.

The restoration took 6 literal days.  Original creation took no longer than it took God to speak the words.  Psa 33:9

[FreeGrace]

On 7/1/2023 at 5:43 PM, BeyondET said:

Earth couldn't of had life on it like plants or trees organisms etc. before God commanded such things to be.

Of course not.  God spoke both original creation into existence (Gen 1:1) and the restoration (Gen 1:2ff) per Psa 33:9.

On 7/1/2023 at 5:43 PM, BeyondET said:

Waters above is were earth was formed from and became the waters below.

What evidence is there that supports this claim?

[BeyondET]

58 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Of course not.  God spoke both original creation into existence (Gen 1:1) and the restoration (Gen 1:2ff) per Psa 33:9.

What evidence is there that supports this claim?

So you just agreed earth wasn't created habitable sustaining plants and trees and organisms.

What is it a barren wasteland with no life. Like you said of coarse earth didn't have life on it in the beginning.

Though earth has gone through a couple of mass extinction since its beginning.

Edited July 3, 2023 by BeyondET

[BeyondET]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

What evidence is there that supports this claim?

The Bible says the waters was separated. There wasn't two different waters in the beginning.

The water below the expanse is earth and its seas which came from the waters above they both were one.

Edited July 3, 2023 by BeyondET