Reconciling 6 Days with 13.7 Billion Years

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, LiveWire said:

There is "NO" apparent age, until You and Others make One Up!

So you actually believe the earth and universe appears to be only about 6-10,000 years old???

3 hours ago, LiveWire said:

There is however, facts!

There sure are.

3 hours ago, LiveWire said:

  And those stem off when Adam was Created and then going backwards.

Please show me some of these facts that you speak of.

3 hours ago, LiveWire said:

But your Chaotic Earth is Jeremiah, and you are using Jeremiah to create a Gap.

Actually, the Hebrew word "tohu" in Gen 1:2 IS translated as "chaotic" in that verse.  And the other translations of that noun include "wasteland", "waste" and "waste place".

[JimmyB]

1 hour ago, FreeGrace said:

Because I never said anything about the earth being re-created.  I said "restored"which is a very big difference.

I never gave an opinion.  I gave the FACT that the exact same form of the verb "hayah" in v.2 is translated as "became/become" in 59% of ALL occurrences in the OT, and there are 111 occurrences with that exact same form.  Please show how that is an opinion.

Those who accept the traditional translation of Gen 1:2, then there is a huge contradiction with Isa 45:18.

TT - "God created the earth and the earth was tohu".

Isa 45:18 - "God did NOT create the earth tohu".  If you don't see a contradiction, you are simply not looking.

How could it have been if it wasn't damaged first?  The difference between "restored" and "recreated" is semantics.  It implies two creations to its regualr form.

 

You gave an opinion.  You can claim it as fact but that doesn't change anything since you have no proof.

[FreeGrace]

17 minutes ago, JimmyB said:

How could it have been if it wasn't damaged first?

But it was.  The earth became a wasteland.  That's what the verb and noun mean.  Compared with how those 2 words are translated elsewhere in the OT.

17 minutes ago, JimmyB said:

  The difference between "restored" and "recreated" is semantics.  It implies two creations to its regualr form.

No it doesn't.  And the Bible says "restored".  Heb 11:3 uses "katartizo" in reference to Genesis 1.  And that word is actually translated "restored" in Gal 6:1 and 1 Peter 5:19.

17 minutes ago, JimmyB said:

You gave an opinion.  You can claim it as fact but that doesn't change anything since you have no proof.

The FACT is how the verb and noun are translated elsewhere.  The verb is translated as "became/become" in 59% of ALL it's occurrences in the OT.  That is a FACT.

And that means "became/become" is THE MOST COMMON translation in that exact same form as found in Gen 1:2.  That is another FACT.

If I'm wrong, where is the proof that "hayah" SHOULD BE "was" in Gen 1:2?

Even Henry Morris, who wrote The Genesis Record, and an article in 1987 critical of the "gap theory" even admitted that the verb CAN BE translated as "became", but then wrote that "became" was rarely used (!!!) and required a context.  Yet, he gave source or "rule" that supports his claims.  

Please explain the contradiction between the TT and Isa 45:18, which I explained in my previous post.

[BeyondET]

5 hours ago, LiveWire said:

NOWHERE, does it say the king of Tyre is human.   God said, he was in the Garden.   The fact you cannot discern this, is why, I don't think you know what you're doing by trying to mesh man made Science to God's Miraculous Creation.

Tyre was a city with a human king. It was a duel prophecy about pride.

Earthly kingdoms is what satan controlled through greed and bride.

I know you don't know what your doing, I didn't mention anything about science in that post to you.

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by BeyondET

[LiveWire]

2 hours ago, BeyondET said:

Tyre was a city with a human king. It was a duel prophecy about pride.

Earthly kingdoms is what satan controlled through greed and bride.

What a joke!

Was the prince of the kingdom of Persia, who held the Angel Gabriel, Captive, human?

 

[LiveWire]

3 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

So you actually believe the earth and universe appears to be only about 6-10,000 years old???

I believe in the past 300 years of observable Science, we are looking at Earth tainted by Sin.  Peter tells us the Earth will be purged with fire and purified of Sin.  I will bet when Earth is purified, it will look like the Age of when it was Created.   And I bet with 6,000 years of continual sin upon sin upon abomination, the Earth, looks extremely Aged.

3 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Please show me some of these facts that you speak of.

the easiest one is counting back days, with Verses that end with "And there was evening and there was morning."

3 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Actually, the Hebrew word "tohu" in Gen 1:2 IS translated as "chaotic" in that verse.  And the other translations of that noun include "wasteland", "waste" and "waste place".

True, but it's same usage for Jeremiah 4.   People have created a Gap Theory using Jeremiah 4 to say Genesis 1:1 is a Completed Creation with Earth, 1:2 is after the Reason for the Gap Theory, Lucifer's Fall/Flood...and why Verse 2 begins with Chaotic unformed Earth covered with water.

[BeyondET]

6 hours ago, LiveWire said:

What a joke!

Was the prince of the kingdom of Persia, who held the Angel Gabriel, Captive, human?

 

Yea its not a joke he had a name Cyrus and the prince wasn't human.

Daniel 10:1

 In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a word was revealed to Daniel, who was named Belteshazzar. And the word was true, and it was a great conflict. And he understood the word and had understanding of the vision.

 

The prince mentioned later in Daniel isn't king Cryus but a prince with authority over the Persian kingdom. Daniel was left with the kings of Persia.

In the following verse below Michael is one of the chief princes. In Daniel anytime you see prince it's referring to spiritual authorities.

All the huge mega structures around the world were built by kings and princes long ago. Reason the technology to build them is unknown. Man inherited the structures, humans didn't have the ability to build them. Even today with astronauts in space and still can't comprehend such a feat.

 

Daniel 10:13

 However, the prince of the kingdom of Persia opposed me for twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia.

Edited July 7, 2023 by BeyondET

[BeyondET]

17 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Maybe if you would quit making these totally untrue guesses as to how I read anyone's post.  Why do you think you know how I read your posts?

I haven't mentioned any people's post that you have read. I don't know who's post you have read, you just twist twist or your subconscious spelled it out.

These conversations with you have become redundant and boring, cya

Edited July 7, 2023 by BeyondET

[FreeGrace]

11 hours ago, LiveWire said:

FreeGrace said: 

So you actually believe the earth and universe appears to be only about 6-10,000 years old???

I believe in the past 300 years of observable Science, we are looking at Earth tainted by Sin.

Sure, the earth suffers from the fall of man.  But, that doesn't take into account the observable very old age of the universe.

11 hours ago, LiveWire said:

  Peter tells us the Earth will be purged with fire and purified of Sin.  I will bet when Earth is purified, it will look like the Age of when it was Created.   And I bet with 6,000 years of continual sin upon sin upon abomination, the Earth, looks extremely Aged.

One can bet whatever they want to bet, but it makes no difference to reality.  And your view doesn't take into account the entire universe.

11 hours ago, LiveWire said:

the easiest one is counting back days, with Verses that end with "And there was evening and there was morning."

So, what is your calculation as to the age of the universe?

11 hours ago, LiveWire said:

True, but it's same usage for Jeremiah 4.   People have created a Gap Theory using Jeremiah 4 to say Genesis 1:1 is a Completed Creation with Earth, 1:2 is after the Reason for the Gap Theory, Lucifer's Fall/Flood...and why Verse 2 begins with Chaotic unformed Earth covered with water.

OK, let's unpack this a bit.  The FACT that "tohu wabohu" is the same for both Gen 1:2 and Jer 4:23 shows that Gen 1:2 has been translated very sloppily.  It is obvious that Jer 4:23 is the RESULT of an invading army who trashed the landscape.  And that is what happened between Gen 1:1 and v.2.

Yes, Gen 1:1 is original creation of everything; universe and earth.  Gen 1:2 is what happened to earth that required a restoration.

Now, as to Satan's fall, etc, we simply don't know and anything mentioned related to that is pure opinion and theory.  But what happened to earth AFTER original creation is FACT and not theory.

Finally, earth was NEVER "unformed".  That is simply impossible.  The same word wrongly translated "unformed/without form/formless" in v.2 is translated as a wasteland in Jer 4:23.  The EXACT SAME noun.

And God NEVER would create anything "chaotically".  Pure speculation and opinion.  What God creates is perfect.  What man or angel does to earth becomes chaotic.  But we don't know any details about HOW the earth BECAME a wasteland because God didn't tell us.  Because we don't need to know.

[FreeGrace]

7 hours ago, BeyondET said:

I haven't mentioned any people's post that you have read. I don't know who's post you have read, you just twist twist or your subconscious spelled it out.

These conversations with you have become redundant and boring, cya

I always agree that when a person has no defense, so simply throws ad hominems around, should bow out.