Where are Believers when the Body Dies - immediately and ultimately?

[missmuffet]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

There body stays in the grave...where in the scriptures it says that the worms are deprived from their feast or that the beast of the air the cultures are prohibited from feasting on the dead carcass of man or woman for that matter.

Or that cannibalism has never happened...

What happens to their soul? The body only stays in the grave until they are resurrected.

[missmuffet]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

Thanks.  I'm more interested in what happens with believers at this point. Where/when does the Bema Seat of Christ occur for the judgment of believers' works?

That is debatable among the Christian community. Some say as soon as the believers are taken to heaven in the rapture they will go through the Bema Seat Judgment. But what about the rest of the believers who make it through the 7 year tribulation? Some say it will happen at the end of the second coming. 

[Your closest friendnt]

11 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

What happens to their soul? The body only stays in the grave until they are resurrected.

It is very difficult to communicate in this particular issue when you continue to say that the body remains in the grave when you know that it is not a fact in it self. In the attempt to seek evidence in proving the truthfulness of that statement we only find evidence to the contrary...and this is known to all the people of the world...

That's why they advance the deterioration of the corpse by burning it. 

On the other hand to preach that those who are burned by a voluntary or involuntary act are what? And about the millions of people who are left unburied....this reminds me the attempts made by the Egyptians to preserved the Corpses for their own reasons so the spirit can return to them...the human spirit leaves the body of man when the body cannot sustain Life in it self and dies...not the other way around that the body dies when the spirit leaves...

But that the Spirit of man, the Spiritual man who lives in the body only can remain in the body as long as the body is alive, at the time of death of the body it becomes indepented of the body, when the life on the body returns soon after a heart failure before any substantial damage to the brain and the heart beat is restored the Spiritual man has to return to the body...and continue their journey together till that time...when it finally happens. 

[Your closest friendnt]

@Selah7

I am working on answering your questions and from posting from an iPhone.

 

[Marilyn C]

On 12/12/2022 at 8:40 AM, Vine Abider said:

Regenerated believers are told they will be with the Lord when they leave this mortal tent, so is this heaven or some other temporary place?

And ultimately we will be with Him in the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven to the earth, right?

Please provide specific verses.

Hi Vine Abider,

love the question as it leads us to God`s eternal purposes in Christ Jesus.

We, the Body of Christ who eagerly await the Lord`s return will one day be changed and caught up to meet the Lord together in the air. We then go to the third heaven, (angelic realm) where we take part in the coronation of the Lord as the visible supreme ruler with His Body who are also Kingpriests around His own throne.

Presently the Lord is on the Father`s throne, (authority) but when His Body has been brought to maturity in Him then it will be time for Him to come for us and take us to His own throne which the Father will set up in the third heaven. (Rev. 3: 21)

This ruling `throne, ` (authority) is set up in Mount Zion, (symbolically the ruling area) (Ps. 2: 6,  Heb. 12: 22). That realm is where will we rule and reign with Christ. We will have access to other parts of God`s great kingdom, (Rev. 3: 12) however our authority is from the highest.

The city which comes down out of heaven from God, (Rev. 21: 2) is populated by the 12 disciples, (who rule over the 12 tribes of Israel, Matt. 19: 28,  Rev. 21: 12 -14) and also the Old Testament righteous (just) men, (& women), (Heb. 11: 16,  12: 23,  21: 12)

On the new earth will be those nations of the saved - the great multitude the no one can count, (Rev. 7: 9) those who didn`t know the Lord but lived rightly according to their conscience, (Rev. 20: 13) babies not born and children under the age of accountability, (Rev. 21: 24)

All have a place in God`s great kingdom and all realms have righteous rulership under Christ. (Eph. 1: 9 & 10,  3: 11)

Marilyn.

[Your closest friendnt]

43 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

What happens to their soul? The body only stays in the grave until they are resurrected.

Only the soul of man is immortal and is not subject to decay...because is not made to decay like the body...

The earthly material are not in the way and is not subject to the earthly powers like gravity...and does not need oxygen and it cannot be destroyed by fire...and it does not and it cannot remain in a dead body and it cannot return in a dead body..

It leaves the body when the body is dead.. how you can say that it will return in the body and that's the time the body will come alive...

What you read in a part of the bible that said that the dead came out of the grave and you think the same thing it will happen to you...it can not be because that never happened because the disciples did not teach about that and Jesus told them to teach what he has teach them and not anything else. 

Not to teach what they were taught before he had met them....the same with Paul not to teach the doctrines of the Pharisees, Jesus Christ got hold of him also and he told him to abide in his vine only....he separated his shaft from the wheat.  Does he do that for all of us, or he longs to do that for all of us. 

[Vine Abider]

3 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Vine Abider,

love the question as it leads us to God`s eternal purposes in Christ Jesus.

We, the Body of Christ who eagerly await the Lord`s return will one day be changed and caught up to meet the Lord together in the air. We then go to the third heaven, (angelic realm) where we take part in the coronation of the Lord as the visible supreme ruler with His Body who are also Kingpriests around His own throne.

Presently the Lord is on the Father`s throne, (authority) but when His Body has been brought to maturity in Him then it will be time for Him to come for us and take us to His own throne which the Father will set up in the third heaven. (Rev. 3: 21)

This ruling `throne, ` (authority) is set up in Mount Zion, (symbolically the ruling area) (Ps. 2: 6,  Heb. 12: 22). That realm is where will we rule and reign with Christ. We will have access to other parts of God`s great kingdom, (Rev. 3: 12) however our authority is from the highest.

The city which come down out of heaven from God, (Rev. 21: 2) is populated by the 12 disciples, (who rule over the 12 tribes of Israel, Matt. 19: 28,  Rev. 21: 14) and also the Old Testament righteous (just) men, (& women), (Heb. 11: 16,  12: 23,  21: 12)

On the new earth will be those nations of the saved - the great multitude the no one can count, (Rev. 7: 9) those who didn`t know the Lord but lived rightly according to their conscience, (Rev. 20: 13) babies not born and children under the age of accountability, (Rev. 21: 24)

All have a place in God`s great kingdom and all realms have righteous rulership under Christ.

Marilyn.

Thanks Marilyn!  Can you provide verses for the first two paragraphs?  Also, where does the Bema Seat of Christ come in?

Lastly, the New Jerusalem has the 12 apostles as foundations . . . why wouldn't all of God's people be there? And the throne of God is there as per Rev 22:3.

[Vine Abider]

6 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

Only the soul of man is immortal and is not subject to decay...because is not made to decay like the body...

Isn't man made of three main parts, body, soul AND spirit as per 1st Thessalonians 5:23?  Isn't the spirit of man an immortal part?  

[Your closest friendnt]

8 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Isn't man made of three main parts, body, soul AND spirit as per 1st Thessalonians 5:23?  Isn't the spirit of man an immortal part?  

Just make it simple the Physical part of man is subject to decay and the Spiritual man who is referred in the scriptures as the Spirit man is not subject to decay.. 

But like the physical man is subject to growth...

This is the big problem with a lot of believers they are trying to make themselves ready for Heaven in their own fashion in a different fashion than the Catholics.  

[Dennis1209]

3 hours ago, Starise said:

Hey Dennis,

I know we could disagree and still be brothers here, so if you want to disagree on something please feel free. Maybe I need some elightenment? I sometimes need to work through some of these more difficult to understand passages and always welcome any input you may have to shed more light on it.

The Luke 16 passage is probably one of the more debated passages in the bible because it has the clear characteristics of a parable IMHO, but it names a man..in this case Lazarus. I don't believe the rich man is named. For me it doesn't seem to be a working practical model for a reality, but it shows the truths and implications of the fact that those who are in Christ are just beginning to reap the benefits of their salvation while those who are lost are doomed to a very hot miserable place, even in the interim until they are judged in finality. Since I can't conclusively say it's something that happened in this literal way, my own logic here dictates that it's a very detailed parable. I am more than willing to change my mind on it if my apprehensions about it are removed. Until then I am sort of forced into my view because I can't say for sure it ISN'T a parable.

The story makes a comparison to a rich man and a poor man with no especially spiritual implications as to each man's relationship to God and if read with only a surface view it might appear that this has more to do with actions and wealth than salvation since it hinges (on the surface) like a story of greed and poverty. We know there are rich Christians and poor lost folks, so I think it's really a deeper study. " You had your good things while you were here, and poor Lazurus was well...poor, so now we are going to gift him and make it living hell ( literally) for the rich man". Of course there are deeper spiritual connotations. We really have to read between the lines to see Lazurus as saved and the rich man as lost. Even in that respect the passage isn't literal.

Yes this is how I have always thought of heaven. A place where God is and where we are as well since we were created to have fellowship with God. Yet that location does move as you have said. Moves eventually to the earth from whereever it is now. We can't really but a finger on where it presently is because it is in another dimension. We don't have any specifics, like " It's just past Jupiter and make a left until you see the light." TBH I don't believe any human really knows exactly where it presently is, and we might not comprehend if we did.

I also have a hunch that we have awareness, but I am very skeptical of all of those videos and people who make these claims. I don't think lack of oxygen can account for all of it, and I am also aware that spiritual entities can take people on journeys...I know this gets weird, but how do we know it isn't some kind of a demonic trick for some of these people? I mean, we know the devil is a deceiver. There are also the biblcal account of prophets and men of God being taken on 'rides' which were really visions, often symbolic in nature but seeming to be real and maybe in that place they were real. John didn't know if he was in his body or not.

I really wish a few of these atheists could go to hell for a little while as it might change their perceptions. Please scare the bejesus out of them all and bring them back so they will wake up.

Some relate, as I do, to parallels between the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:21) and the certain rich ruler of Luke 18:18 and their ultimate destination. Be it a parable or not, the Lord Himself spoke it as an example for our learning. It indeed does have a spiritual relationship with God, with many examples. They also include the “five I will’s”, pride, wealth, and greed.

I will not go into details, but there was a gate to enter Jerusalem during Jesus's time walking the earth named the “the eye of the needle.” A camel could pass through, but it had to be unpacked and specially trained to crawl through that gate, it was not impossible, but many could not pass through.

Through the Eye of an ACTUAL Needle: The Fake Gate Theory – Classic Theology

Luke 18:25 (KJV) For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Yep, science and CERN are working feverishly to unravel the mystery of dimensions. It is a hard concept to understand and relate to. Spiritual beings are all around us, working for and against us, and we are unaware, all at the same time and space.

Another topic, but I think that is what these UAPs (UFOs) are doing, deceiving, popping in and out of their dimension. If one reads the official government UAP report, it is laughable at the two most obvious explanations they omit. Dimensional & spiritual. The report adheres to evolution theory, but I believe it will in the future the word panspermia will be in frequent use.

2021-Government-UAP-UFO-Report.pdf (theblackvault.com)