Evolution's Achilles Heel ~ ~ Book, 9 Ph.D Scientists and Doctors ~ ~ Discussion

[The Barbarian]

4 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

They have the "same structures," because they are given the same strength and support from their limbs, but with different purposes! The wings of bats are made so that they have little muscle within the wings themselves, to keep them light. The arms and paws of primates give them climbing abilities. The fins of whales are strong and flat to provide thrust in water.

And yet they are all derived from bones originally evolved to support fins in fish.

4 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

God MODIFIED the creature to be USEFUL!

Yes, creationists will admit that much.   They just don't approve of the way He does it.

4 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

There's both Scriptural AND scientific support for the global FLOOD!

No, there isn't.   Saying the "land" (erets) was flooded is not saying the world (tebel) was flooded.    Creationists just ignore the words and the context to get the result they want.

And of course things like the meanders in the Grand Canyon, the Mid-oceanic ridges, and many other things rule out a young Earth.

 

 

[Starise]

19 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Common descent is not evolution any more than your family tree is evolution.    There likely was some allele frequencies changing in your family over time, but that's not common descent.

And, of course, even if there was an actual flood of Noah, (I think there was) it wouldn't affect the way evolution works, at all.   And of course, the flood has nothing at all to say about the age of the Earth.

 

 

How are you connecting these dots here? 

[Retrobyter]

13 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

No.   You just assumed that "erets" (land) means "the entire globe."    

Shalom, The Barbarian.

LOL! You don't know me very well, do you? I KNOW that "'erets" means "land!" I'm a huge proponent for that definition and English translation! However, I also know that when "kaal " (or "kol ") is added before the word, as in Genesis 7:3, 8:9, and 9:19, it means "all of-[the]-land," particularly if the definite article prefix is added to "'erets" as "haa'aarets." I also know that when one extends the land all around, one covers at least the entire continent and if all the land masses are connected (because there wasn't as much surface water before the Flood), then that statement extends to what we know as the whole planet, even though it really refers to all of the surface land mass of the planet!

13 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

The word for "entire world" is "tebel" not "erets."  "Global" would have made no sense to the Hebrews of the time, who assumed a flat Earth, covered by a dome with windows in it for rain to fall through.

This is a COMMON MISCONCEPTION. At NO time do we understand that the "Hebrews of the time" believed in a "flat Earth, covered by a dome with windows in it for rain to fall through"! That's just a DORKY thing people say because they ASSUME that people were less intelligent and less informed back then! The truth is that we've LOST a lot of the information that was available before the Flood.

Erich von Daniken wrote a book entitled Chariots of the Gods? back in 1971 and a documentary film before that in 1970 entitled the same, suggesting that ancient technologies had to have come from extraterrestrial aliens. He was not wrong in his archaeological evidence of lost technology, only in the conclusions he drew from the evidence. (A biblical answer was written to his book by Dr. Clifford Wilson entitled Crash Go the Chariots in 1972.) There are evidences of lens grinding in ancient Assyria, evidences of battery fragments thousands of years old in the Baghdad Museum, and all of the amazing building projects around the world, like the Great Pyramid on the plain of Giza. These things are not really explainable by today's calculations.

13 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Why not just accept it as He said it?

I do, but I could ask the question right back. Why must the Scriptures be anything other than they claim about the ages of the people within the Scriptures and the information about the Flood being a global catastrophe?

[Retrobyter]

52 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

And yet they are all derived from bones originally evolved to support fins in fish.

Shalom, The Barbarian.

No, they all had their own bones. Their bones move differently than do those of fish, and they are constructed differently, too.

52 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

Yes, creationists will admit that much.   They just don't approve of the way He does it.

He did it be divine fiat! He didn't sit around for millions of years and hope for a good turn-out! I believe that it is you (plural) who don't approve of the way He did it.

52 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

No, there isn't.   Saying the "land" (erets) was flooded is not saying the world (tebel) was flooded.    Creationists just ignore the words and the context to get the result they want.

Yeah, I should have mentioned the Hebrew word, teeVeel. The word means "confusion," and it wasn't used in Scripture until 1 Samuel 2:8 in Samuel's mother Hannah's prayer:

Sh'mu'el Alef 2:1-10 (CJB)

1 Then Hannah prayed: she said,

"My heart exults in ADONAI!
My dignity has been restored by ADONAI!
I can gloat over my enemies,
because of my joy at your saving me.

2 "No one is as holy as ADONAI,
because there is none to compare with you,
no rock like our God.

3 "Stop your proud boasting!
Don't let arrogance come from your mouth!
For ADONAI is a God of knowledge,
and he appraises actions.
4 The bows of the mighty are broken,
while the feeble are armed with strength.
5 The well-fed hire themselves for bread,
while those who were hungry hunger no more.
The barren woman has borne seven,
while the mother of many wastes away.

6 "ADONAI kills and makes alive;
he brings down to the grave, and he brings up.
7 ADONAI makes poor, and he makes rich;
he humbles, and he exalts.
8 He raised the poor from the dust,
lifts up the needy from the trash pile;
he gives them a place with leaders
and assigns them seats of honor.
"For the earth's (Hebrew: haa'aarets = "of-the-land") pillars (Hebrew: metsuqey = "molten supports") belong to ADONAI;
on them he has placed the world (Hebrew: vayyaashet `aleehem teeVeel = "and-he-has-set upon-them [the]-confusion").
9 He will guard the steps of his faithful,
but the wicked will be silenced in darkness.
For it is not by strength that a person prevails --
10 those who fight ADONAI wll be shattered;
he will thunder against them in heaven --
ADONAI will judge the ends of the earth.
He will strengthen his king
and enhance the power of his anointed!"

 

52 minutes ago, The Barbarian said:

And of course things like the meanders in the Grand Canyon, the Mid-oceanic ridges, and many other things rule out a young Earth.

Actually, given the GLOBAL Flood, they ENHANCE it!

[The Barbarian]

4 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

No, they all had their own bones. Their bones move differently than do those of fish, and they are constructed differently, too.

 

No, that's wrong.   Above are the fin bones of the lobed-fin fish Acanthostega.    Notice the humerus, ulna, radius, metacarpals and phalanges.    Just like a tetrapod limb.

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

He did it be divine fiat!

His divine fiat used nature to make them.   He says living things were brought forth by the Earth.   I believe Him.

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

He didn't sit around for millions of years and hope for a good turn-out!

Didn't have to.   He's powerful enough to use nature to do His will.   And yes, you don't seem to approve of it.

 

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Yeah, I should have mentioned the Hebrew word, teeVeel. The word means "confusion,"

Strong's Concordance

tebel: world

Original Word: תֵּבֵל
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: tebel
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-bale')
Definition: world

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

and it wasn't used in Scripture until 1 Samuel 2:8 in Samuel's mother Hannah's prayer:

Job 34:13 Who appointed him over the earth(tebel)?  Who put him in charge of the whole world?(tebel)

And of course things like the meanders in the Grand Canyon, the Mid-oceanic ridges, and many other things rule out a young Earth.

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Actually, given the GLOBAL Flood, they ENHANCE it!

No, that's wrong.   For example, a single year-long flood is unable to make entrenched meanders; they take many years.    The motion of continents at mid-oceanic ridges show hundreds of millions of years of movement.

 

[RV_Wizard]

8 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Quote

He says living things were brought forth by the Earth.   I believe Him.

However, when He says, "And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good," you choose not to believe that.  You don't believe the evening and the morning were the sixth day.  You don't believe the fourth Commandment.  Your posting is in direct opposition to what is written.

Quote

He's powerful enough to use nature to do His will.  

But not to lie.  If he lies, He is not God.  If He is God, His word is the ultimate truth.  The creation of the universe is no less miraculous in a trillion years as it is in six days.  God had no incentive to deceive us.  Instead, He gave us the truth of creation because He knew that latter day scoffers would teach against it.

Quote

And of course things like the meanders in the Grand Canyon, the Mid-oceanic ridges, and many other things rule out a young Earth.

Actually, they don't.  Mt. St Helens showed us that a canyon could be cut in a very short time.  Earthquakes can rip the mountains apart, and the canyon is on a large tectonic plate.  One thing we do know.  That little river did not cut that canyon.  I've been there three times.  Have you?

Quote

For example, a single year-long flood is unable to make entrenched meanders; they take many years. 

How many global floods have you studied?  When was the last time we could measure the impact of 10,000 feet of water on a land surface?  Oh, that's right.  There was only one.  It was about 4,000 years ago.

 

[The Barbarian]

He says living things were brought forth by the Earth.   I believe Him.

5 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

However, when He says, "And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good," you choose not to believe that. 

I think even you believe that.   The difference is that I'm good with the way He did it, and you aren't.    He's powerful enough to use nature and even chance to do His will.

5 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

But not to lie.  If he lies, He is not God.  If He is God, His word is the ultimate truth. 

Yes.   That's why I think you should believe what He says.   I don't think you're saying He's lying, I think you just add your own ideas to make it other than it is.

And of course things like the meanders in the Grand Canyon, the Mid-oceanic ridges, and many other things rule out a young Earth.

5 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Actually, they don't.

They do.   Entrenched meanders can't be produced in just a few years.   It takes millions of years.   This is why you don't see them at Mt. St. Helens.   The gullies carved out of soft ash collapse after being cut over about ten meters high.   It was one more confirmation that the Earth is very ancient.   But we do have some examples of great sudden floods.   The Washington Scablands were formed by the sudden collapse of an ice dam holding back a huge lake.    The rapidly-eroded land shows all sorts of erosion features, but not entrenched meanders.    I've been there, and the gullies and the river are nothing like the very ancient Grand Canyon. 

5 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

One thing we do know.  That little river did not cut that canyon.

It did.   It left the evidence in the walls of the meanders.   Would you like to learn how we know?

5 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

How many global floods have you studied?

Actually, the Earth hasn't had a global flood since the moon was formed.   But we don't have any land features surviving from that time.

5 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

When was the last time we could measure the impact of 10,000 feet of water on a land surface?

Washington scablands.   Actually, there was a lot more water than that.   And it leaves very characteristic eroded features.    Would you like to learn about that?

5 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

Oh, that's right.  There was only one. 

Probably more.   Evidence shows that there were a series of those floods in Eastern Washington.   

5 hours ago, RV_Wizard said:

It was about 4,000 years ago.

Nope.   13,000 to 18,000 years ago, according to the evidence.

 

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

 

No, that's wrong.   Above are the fin bones of the lobed-fin fish Acanthostega.    Notice the humerus, ulna, radius, metacarpals and phalanges.    Just like a tetrapod limb.

Shalom, The Barbarian.

Notice that there are EIGHT phalanges. Also, WHO named these bones "humerus, ulna, radius, metacarpals and phalanges"? They thought, "Wow! These look just like a tetrapod limb! I think I'll name this bone a 'humerus' and this bone an 'ulna' and this bone ...." Why? just because they're almost in the same order as those bones in another creature!

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

His divine fiat used nature to make them.   He says living things were brought forth by the Earth.   I believe Him. 

He made things OUT of the earth - that is, out of the GROUND! Not by millions of years, but INSTANTLY! over a period of SIX LITERAL DAYS, HE MADE THEM ALL! I believe HIM, for He wrote it first with HIS OWN "FINGER!" Then, Moses BROKE the tables of stone, and Moses had to re-write it himself!

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

Didn't have to.   He's powerful enough to use nature to do His will.   And yes, you don't seem to approve of it.

Nope. What I don't approve is the FISHTALE - the LIE - that evolutionists have woven in an EFFORT to say He did it all through nature!

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

Strong's Concordance

tebel: world

Original Word: תֵּבֵל
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: tebel
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-bale')
Definition: world

Job 34:13 Who appointed him over the earth(tebel)?  Who put him in charge of the whole world?(tebel)

Nope! First, as is common, the undotted bet - actually a VET - is pronounced as a "V" not a "b." So, the phonetic spelling should be "(tay-Vale')." Second, this word was given its meaning because of how is SEEMS to be used in places like you quoted from...

Job 34:1-37 (KJV)

1 Furthermore Elihu answered and said,

2 "Hear my words, O ye wise men; and give ear unto me, ye that have knowledge.
3 For the ear trieth words, as the mouth tasteth meat.
4 Let us choose to us judgment: let us know among ourselves what is good.
5 For Job hath said,

"'I am righteous: and God hath taken away my judgment.
6 Should I lie against my right? my wound is incurable without transgression.'

7 "What man is like Job, who drinketh up scorning like water?
8 Which goeth in company with the workers of iniquity, and walketh with wicked men.
9 For he hath said, It profiteth a man nothing that he should delight himself with God.
10 Therefore hearken unto me, ye men of understanding: far be it from God, that he should do wickedness; and fromthe Almighty, that he should commit iniquity.
11 For the work of a man shall he render unto him, and cause every man to find according to his ways.
12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.
13 Who hath given him a charge over the earth? (Hebrew: haa'aarets = "the-earth") or who hath disposed the whole world? (Hebrew: teeVeel kulaah = "world all [feminine]")
14 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;
15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.
16 If now thou hast understanding, hear this: hearken to the voice of my words.
17 Shall even he that hateth right govern? and wilt thou condemn him that is most just?
18 Is it fit to say to a king, 'Thou art wicked'? and to princes, 'Ye are ungodly'?
19 How much less to him that accepteth not the persons of princes, nor regardeth the rich more than the poor? for they all are the work of his hands.
20 In a moment shall they die, and the people shall be troubled at midnight, and pass away: and the mighty shall be taken away without hand.
21 For his eyes are upon the ways of man, and he seeth all his goings.
22 There is no darkness, nor shadow of death, where the workers of iniquity may hide themselves.
23 For he will not lay upon man more than right; that he should enter into judgment with God.
24 He shall break in pieces mighty men without number, and set others in their stead.
25 Therefore he knoweth their works, and he overturneth them in the night, so that they are destroyed.
26 He striketh them as wicked men in the open sight of others;
27 Because they turned back from him, and would not consider any of his ways:
28 So that they cause the cry of the poor to come unto him, and he heareth the cry of the afflicted.
29 When he giveth quietness, who then can make trouble? and when he hideth his face, who then can behold him? whether it be done against a nation, or against a man only:
30 That the hypocrite reign not, lest the people be ensnared.
31 Surely it is meet to be said unto God, I have borne chastisement, I will not offend any more:
32 That which I see not teach thou me: if I have done iniquity, I will do no more.
33 Should it be according to thy mind? he will recompense it, whether thou refuse, or whether thou choose; and not I: therefore speak what thou knowest.
34 Let men of understanding tell me, and let a wise man hearken unto me.
35 Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom.
36 My desire is that Job may be tried unto the end because of his answers for wicked men.
37 For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God."

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

And of course things like the meanders in the Grand Canyon, the Mid-oceanic ridges, and many other things rule out a young Earth.

You don't know that! You CAN'T know that! There's no EXPERIMENTAL DATA for a worldwide FLOOD! One should just take God's Word for it!

1 hour ago, The Barbarian said:

No, that's wrong.   For example, a single year-long flood is unable to make entrenched meanders; they take many years.    The motion of continents at mid-oceanic ridges show hundreds of millions of years of movement.

OR, many millions of GALLONS! You don't KNOW the after effects of the GLOBAL FLOOD! Are YOU a flood geologist? Are you even acquainted with hydrodynamics?

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian shows that lobed fin fish has the same humerus, ulna, radius, carpals and phalanges as tetrapods.

 

53 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Notice that there are EIGHT phalanges.

Yep.   Most tetrapods now have five, but others have different numbers.    Turns out, the number of digits isn't coded in our genes.    It depends on how long it takes for the embryo limb bud to finish out.   The longer it takes, the more digits.   Would you like to learn how that works?

55 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

They thought, "Wow! These look just like a tetrapod limb! I think I'll name this bone a 'humerus' and this bone an 'ulna' and this bone ...." Why?

I suppose because they are determined by the same genes, are in the same places with the same relationships as other tetrapod limbs.   Stuff like that.   Notice the humerus connects to the shoulder, while the ulna and radius conect to the humerus and to the carpals just as in tetrapods.   

His divine fiat used nature to make them.   He says living things were brought forth by the Earth.   I believe Him. 

58 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

He made things OUT of the earth - that is, out of the GROUND!

Not according to God. He says the Earth did it according to His will.

58 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Not by millions of years, but INSTANTLY!

That's your addition to scripture.   It doesn't say that in God's word.

59 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Didn't have to.   He's powerful enough to use nature to do His will.   And yes, you don't seem to approve of it.

 

59 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Nope. What I don't approve is the FISHTALE - the LIE - that evolutionists have woven in an EFFORT to say He did it all through nature!

God says He did.  I believe Him.

Strong's Concordance

tebel: world

Original Word: תֵּבֵל
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: tebel
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-bale')
Definition: world

Job 34:13 Who appointed him over the earth(tebel)?  Who put him in charge of the whole world?(tebel)

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

Nope!

I'll go with the Hebrew scholars on this.   I think you've confused two different words.

And of course things like the meanders in the Grand Canyon, the Mid-oceanic ridges, and many other things rule out a young Earth.

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

You don't know that! You CAN'T know that! There's no EXPERIMENTAL DATA

In fact, as you mentioned, Mt. St. Helens is just such an experiment.   And as predicted, no entrenched meanders.    Moreover, the Washington Scablands give us a very clear example of how a gigantic flood actually erodes  land.   No meanders.

For example, a single year-long flood is unable to make entrenched meanders; they take many years. 

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

OR, many millions of GALLONS!

That was the flooding we see having happened in Washington.  Massive amounts of water in a yearlong flood, cannot make entrenched meanders.

 

[Retrobyter]

19 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Barbarian shows that lobed fin fish has the same humerus, ulna, radius, carpals and phalanges as tetrapods.

 

Yep.   Most tetrapods now have five, but others have different numbers.    Turns out, the number of digits isn't coded in our genes.    It depends on how long it takes for the embryo limb bud to finish out.   The longer it takes, the more digits.   Would you like to learn how that works?

Shalom, The Barbarian.

Not particularly necessary. But, isn't it true that "how long it takes for the embryo limb bud to finish out" IS encoded in the genes? One way or another, timing is also encoded through the folds within the DNA structure.

19 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

I suppose because they are determined by the same genes, are in the same places with the same relationships as other tetrapod limbs.   Stuff like that.   Notice the humerus connects to the shoulder, while the ulna and radius conect to the humerus and to the carpals just as in tetrapods. 

Back to "the head bone's connected to the neck bone, the neck bone's connected to the ..." stuff, eh? However, don't you think that God would use similar designs for the various KINDS? Why "re-invent the wheel?" 

19 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

His divine fiat used nature to make them.   He says living things were brought forth by the Earth.   I believe Him. 

Actually, you've misread what He said. He didn't say that "living things were brought forth BY the earth";

B'reeshiyt 1:24 (Westminster Leningrad Codex)

וַיֹּ֣אמֶר אֱלֹהִ֗ים תֹּוצֵ֨א הָאָ֜רֶץ נֶ֤פֶשׁ חַיָּה֙ לְמִינָ֔הּ בְּהֵמָ֥ה וָרֶ֛מֶשׂ וְחַֽיְתֹו־אֶ֖רֶץ לְמִינָ֑הּ וַֽיְהִי־כֵֽן׃
וַיַּ֣עַשׂ אֱלֹהִים֩ אֶת־חַיַּ֨ת הָאָ֜רֶץ לְמִינָ֗הּ וְאֶת־הַבְּהֵמָה֙ לְמִינָ֔הּ וְאֵ֛ת כָּל־רֶ֥מֶשׂ הָֽאֲדָמָ֖ה לְמִינֵ֑הוּ וַיַּ֥רְא אֱלֹהִ֖ים כִּי־טֹֽוב׃

This transliterates to ...

24 Vayyo'mer Elohiym Toqtsee' haa'aarets nefesh hayyaah lmiynaah bheemaah vaaremes vchaytow-'erets lmiynaah vayhiy keen:
25 Vayya`as 'Elohiym 'et-chayyat haa'aarets lmiynaah v'et-habeemaah lmiynaah v'eet-remes haa'adaamaah lmiyneehuw vayyari' 'Elohiym kiy-TowV:

This translates word-for-word to ...

24 And-said God, "Let-come-out of-the-land a-breathing-creature living to-its-kind cattle and-creeping-thing and-beast-of-land to-its-kind"; and-it-was so:
25 And-made God [d.o.->]-beast of-the-land to-it-kind and-[d.o.->]-the-cattle to-its-kind and-[d.o.->]-creeping-thing of-the-ground to-its-kind and-saw God that-it-was good:

19 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

Not according to God. He says the Earth did it according to His will.

No, that's YOUR twist on what He said. FOLLOW THE HEBREW!

Now, to my statement, "not by millions of years but INSTANTLY," you said,

19 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

That's your addition to scripture.   It doesn't say that in God's word.

Actually, IT DOES! It says,

B'reeshiyt 1:31 (Westminster Leningrad Codex)

וַיַּ֤רְא אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶת־כָּל־אֲשֶׁ֣ר עָשָׂ֔ה וְהִנֵּה־טֹ֖וב מְאֹ֑ד וַֽיְהִי־עֶ֥רֶב וַֽיְהִי־בֹ֖קֶר יֹ֥ום הַשִּׁשִּֽׁי׃ פ

Transliterated, this is ...

31 Vayyaree' 'Elohiym 'et-kaal-'asher `aasaah vhineeh-TowV m'od vayhiy-`ereV vayhiy-boqer yowm hashshishshiy: P

This is translated word-for-word as ...

31 And-saw God [d.o.->]-all-that He-made and-behold-[it-was]-good abundantly and-there-was-evening and-there-was-morning Day the-Sixth: [end-of-subtopic]

This Torah was given at Mount Sinai, and it continued with the Law given, starting with the Ten Commandments. These were GOD'S words, as verse 1 reveals! Within the Law, we read:

Shmot 2o:8-11 (Westminster Leningrad Codex)

זָכֹ֛ור֩ אֶת־יֹ֥֨ום הַשַּׁבָּ֖֜ת לְקַדְּשֹֽׁ֗ו ׃
שֵׁ֤֣שֶׁת יָמִ֣ים֙ תַּֽעֲבֹ֔ד֮ וְעָשִׂ֖֣יתָ כָּל־מְלַאכְתֶּֽךָ֒ ׃
וְיֹ֙ום֙ הַשְּׁבִיעִ֔֜י שַׁבָּ֖֣ת ׀ לַיהוָ֣ה אֱלֹהֶ֑֗יךָ לֹֽ֣א־תַעֲשֶׂ֣֨ה כָל־מְלָאכָ֡֜ה אַתָּ֣ה ׀ וּבִנְךָֽ֣־וּ֠בִתֶּ֗ךָ עַבְדְּךָ֤֨ וַאֲמָֽתְךָ֜֙ וּבְהֶמְתֶּ֔֗ךָ וְגֵרְךָ֖֙ אֲשֶׁ֥֣ר בִּשְׁעָרֶֽ֔יךָ ׃
כִּ֣י שֵֽׁשֶׁת־יָמִים֩ עָשָׂ֨ה יְהוָ֜ה אֶת־הַשָּׁמַ֣יִם וְאֶת־הָאָ֗רֶץ אֶת־הַיָּם֙ וְאֶת־כָּל־אֲשֶׁר־בָּ֔ם וַיָּ֖נַח בַּיֹּ֣ום הַשְּׁבִיעִ֑י עַל־כֵּ֗ן בֵּרַ֧ךְ יְהוָ֛ה אֶת־יֹ֥ום הַשַּׁבָּ֖ת וַֽיְקַדְּשֵֽׁהוּ׃ ס

Transliterated,...

8 Zaakhowr 'et-yowm hashShabaat lqadoshow: 9 Sheeshet yaamiym ta`aVod v`aasiyt kaal-mla'khtekhaa: 10 vyowm hashShViy`iy Shabaat | l-YHWH 'Eloheykhaa lo'-ta`aseh kaal-mlaa'khaah 'ataah | uwVinkhaa-uwVitekhaa `aVdkhaa va'amaatkhaa uwVhemtekhaa vgeerkhaa 'asher bish`aariykhaa: 11 Kiy sheeshet-yaamiym `aasaah YHWH 'et-hashshaamayim v'et-haa'aarets 'et-hayyaam v'et-kaal-'asher-baam vayyaanach bayyowm hashshViy`iy `al-keen beerakh YHWH 'et-yowm hashShabaat vayqadsheehuw:

Translated word-for-word we get ...

8 "Remember [d.o.->]-a-day the-Shabbat to-keep-it-holy: 9 Six days you-shall-labor and-do all-your-work: 10 and-a-day the-seventh [is]-Shabbat | to-YHWH your-God not-you-shall-do any-of-your-work you | nor-your-son-nor-your-daughter your-manservant nor-your-maidservant nor-your-livestock nor-your-stranger that [is]-inside-your-gates: 11 For six-days made YHWH [d.o.->]-the-skies and-[d.o.->]-the-land [d.o.->]-the-sea and-[d.o.->]-all-that-[is]-in-them and-He-rested in-the-day the-seventh upon-thus blessed YHWH [d.o.->]-a-day the-Shabbat and-He-made-it-holy:"

19 hours ago, The Barbarian said:

God says He did.  I believe Him.

Strong's Concordance

tebel: world

Original Word: תֵּבֵל
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: tebel
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-bale')
Definition: world

Job 34:13 Who appointed him over the earth('ERETS)?  Who put him in charge of the whole world?(tebel)

I'll go with the Hebrew scholars on this.   I think you've confused two different words.

And of course things like the meanders in the Grand Canyon, the Mid-oceanic ridges, and many other things rule out a young Earth.

In fact, as you mentioned, Mt. St. Helens is just such an experiment.   And as predicted, no entrenched meanders.    Moreover, the Washington Scablands give us a very clear example of how a gigantic flood actually erodes  land.   No meanders.

For example, a single year-long flood is unable to make entrenched meanders; they take many years. 

That was the flooding we see having happened in Washington.  Massive amounts of water in a yearlong flood, cannot make entrenched meanders.

(Sorry, I couldn't get the text to break.) Regarding through "I'll go with the Hebrew scholars on this. I think you've confused two different words," the two words, teeVeel (תֵּבֵל, Strong's 8398) and tevel ( תֶּבֶל, Strong's 8397), are SPELLED EXACTLY ALIKE! Both are spelled "tav-Vet-lamed," regardless the vowel pointing difference. The "Hebrew scholars" need to look at their etymologies deeper. Strong's ASSUMES they are from two different sources. It means "confusion" and that's NICELY putting it! For it really means "violation of nature" or "unnatural bestiality," hence all the verses that speak of God's judgment against it!

Second, regarding the aftermath of the "yearlong flood," that's a NOTHING flood in the Washington Scablands compared to a GLOBAL FLOOD!!! Furthermore, one must consider the lay of the land before the flooding. If it is a relatively flat ground, meandering of the waters is more likely. Even the Jordan River which flows from the Golan Heights to the Dead Sea, a downhill path of 156 miles that falls a little more than 8700 feet, has significant meandering; the river itself is 223 miles long! Compare that to the Mississippi River basin, and you will see that meandering is common wherever there is RUN-OFF! It also kinda depends on how much of the basalt base was "meandered" by the volcanism in its history prior to the water flow, and we are also told that the great fountains of the deep were broken up, initiating the Global Flood in Noach's 600th year. Furthermore, Job 38 speaks about such volcanism in the remaking of the earth after the Flood.

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by Retrobyter
to fix a pronoun