FreeGrace Posted November 13, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,511 Content Per Day: 8.07 Reputation: 626 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 hour ago, The Barbarian said: FreeGrace said: Paul told us that "from one man (Adam) He made all the nations". Acts 17:26 My guess is that Adam was archaic H. sapiens, and all four subspecies were his descendants. But we have no way of knowing and it doesn't matter. Right-O. There is one race, the human race. All from Adam, as the Bible notes. Oh, and there is the angelic race as well. 1 hour ago, The Barbarian said: Anatomically modern humans, Neanderthals, Denisovans and an as yet not well-understood fourth subspecies. All of them H. sapiens, it seems. All three extinct subspecies have left some of their genes in our genomes. Since the Bible says "all nations" came from one man, it doesn't matter. That means Adam would have had all the genes, etc needed that are found across humanity. 1 hour ago, The Barbarian said: What difference would it make if Adam was from the founder of all these subspecies of human, instead of just our particular subspecies? I believe there is just one race, the human race. I don't believe in "subspecies". Humanity began with Adam. That's all I care about. 1 hour ago, The Barbarian said: Edit: Paul had no idea that these subspecies even existed. I can only suppose that God didn't think that was important to tell us. Since Paul (and all human writers of Scripture) were God-breathed by the Holy Spirit, it doesn't matter what Paul didn't know. He did know what to write, as guided by the Holy Spirit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeGrace Posted November 13, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,511 Content Per Day: 8.07 Reputation: 626 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 hour ago, The Barbarian said: I've noticed that. He's either got a very strong resistance to reading the literature, or he's tossing OE creationists and theistic evolutionists into the same bag for reasons that aren't clear. Seems his discerner needs some adjusting. It seems he lumps OEC with atheistic evolutionists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeGrace Posted November 13, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,511 Content Per Day: 8.07 Reputation: 626 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 hour ago, RV_Wizard said: FreeGrace said: rv_wizard just said he believed in an old earth, so I have no idea why he was even arguing with me. He apparently just thinks Gen 1 happened a very long time ago.is I'm sorry you didn't make it to the end of the sentence. Yes, I did get that. So you don't have to be sorry. So since you believe the earth to be very old, and scholars have back dated world events to Adam which they believe is about 6,000 years ago, what explanation is there for Adam to have been around so much longer than that? 1 hour ago, RV_Wizard said: I believe in a mature planet created on day one. I do not believe in long ages. I believe in the Bible as written. All things were created in a mature state. So how do you get a "very long time ago" when creation occurred? I've given a clear and very reasonable explanation how the earth is very old, yet Adam was on earth about 6,000 years ago. And I flatly reject Darwinian evolution. Everything in Gen 1 is literal. The difference between our views is that there is an unspecified time gap between v.1 and 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted November 13, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,097 Content Per Day: 0.67 Reputation: 980 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted November 13, 2023 33 minutes ago, FreeGrace said: Since the Bible says "all nations" came from one man, it doesn't matter. That means Adam would have had all the genes, etc needed that are found across humanity. Adam could have had at most, 2 alleles for each gene. Eve could have had at most, 2 more. All the dozens of others arrived by mutations. God gave His creatures the ability to vary and adapt to new conditions. So it's not surprising that anatomically modern humans and other subspecies had so many different versions of those genes. 37 minutes ago, FreeGrace said: Oh, and there is the angelic race as well. But they aren't biological as we are. The subspecies of humans were biological races. 38 minutes ago, FreeGrace said: Since Paul (and all human writers of Scripture) were God-breathed by the Holy Spirit, it doesn't matter what Paul didn't know. He did know what to write, as guided by the Holy Spirit. Yes. He told us what God gave to him to write down. 39 minutes ago, FreeGrace said: I believe there is just one race, the human race. There is now, at least in terms of biology. Genetics shows us that there is only one biological human race. "Race" is mostly a cultural construct, not a biological reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teddyv Posted November 13, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,265 Content Per Day: 2.89 Reputation: 2,302 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/03/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted November 13, 2023 42 minutes ago, FreeGrace said: Seems his discerner needs some adjusting. It seems he lumps OEC with atheistic evolutionists. He is now lumping other YEC'ers who accept certain elements of evolution into that bag as well, calling them Young Earth Evolutionists. That would be the previously mentioned Kurt Wise and Todd Wood. AiG has now declared themselves the arbiter of the YEC purity test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeGrace Posted November 13, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,511 Content Per Day: 8.07 Reputation: 626 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted November 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, The Barbarian said: Adam could have had at most, 2 alleles for each gene. Eve could have had at most, 2 more. All the dozens of others arrived by mutations. Therefore, the whole human race began with 1 man, Adam. Mutations don't change origins. 3 minutes ago, The Barbarian said: God gave His creatures the ability to vary and adapt to new conditions. So it's not surprising that anatomically modern humans and other subspecies had so many different versions of those genes. But none of this has any effect on creation. 1 man and 1 woman = human race. 3 minutes ago, The Barbarian said: But they aren't biological as we are. The subspecies of humans were biological races. Not sure what you are meaning here. Every living thing is "biological". I prefer using "ethnicity" over "race". When "race" is used, it gets abused and allows the evil thinking that there are superior "races" and inferior ones. Nope. All humans came from Adam. 3 minutes ago, The Barbarian said: Yes. He told us what God gave to him to write down. There is now, at least in terms of biology. Genetics shows us that there is only one biological human race. "Race" is mostly a cultural construct, not a biological reality. Bingo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeGrace Posted November 13, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,511 Content Per Day: 8.07 Reputation: 626 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 minute ago, teddyv said: FreeGrace said: Seems his discerner needs some adjusting. It seems he lumps OEC with atheistic evolutionists. He is now lumping other YEC'ers who accept certain elements of evolution into that bag as well, calling them Young Earth Evolutionists. That would be the previously mentioned Kurt Wise and Todd Wood. AiG has now declared themselves the arbiter of the YEC purity test. Yep. His "discerner" is definitely broken. Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teddyv Posted November 13, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,265 Content Per Day: 2.89 Reputation: 2,302 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/03/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted November 13, 2023 On 11/8/2023 at 12:14 PM, FJK said: In my view, being "young" or being "old" is irrelevant to anything, there are several Biblical references stating that the beginning and the end are all already here and have been since the time of their creation and will be till the time of the end. Understand this and you will understand much that you don't understand now. You posted this several days ago, and I was curious about the Biblical references you are using to support this claim. I asked previously. Can you point me to those verses? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted November 14, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.53 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted November 14, 2023 22 minutes ago, teddyv said: You posted this several days ago, and I was curious about the Biblical references you are using to support this claim. I asked previously. Can you point me to those verses? Thanks. Genesis 1:1, Revelation 1:8, Isiah 46:10, Ecclesiastes 3:11, others. The end and beginning were created along with everything else when the heaven and the earth were created. It isn't a continuing process of creation as time goes by, it is a revelation to us of what already is -has been- created that we receive from the passage of time (as we experience time). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Barbarian Posted November 14, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,097 Content Per Day: 0.67 Reputation: 980 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/20/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted November 14, 2023 2 hours ago, FreeGrace said: Therefore, the whole human race began with 1 man, Adam. Mutations don't change origins. Right. There's nothing in science that rules out an original pair from which all people living today descended. 2 hours ago, FreeGrace said: But none of this has any effect on creation. It is creation. From one man and one woman, all of human variation evolved. 2 hours ago, FreeGrace said: Not sure what you are meaning here. Every living thing is "biological". Angels are spirits. And they have no physical bodies. They are not biological as our bodies are. 2 hours ago, FreeGrace said: I prefer using "ethnicity" over "race". "Ethnicity" is a broader term, including culture. The point is that we no longer have any biological human races, although there were once at least four. 2 hours ago, FreeGrace said: When "race" is used, it gets abused and allows the evil thinking that there are superior "races" and inferior ones. The term has been dirtied by people who think like that. As I said, races today are cultural constructs and have no biological basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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