Will Jesus Rule With A "Rod Of Iron" A King's Scepter, During A Millennium As Many Teach?

[FreeGrace]

13 hours ago, abcdef said:

Again, you have failed to answer my question directly and specifically.

Since there are different theories about when the GT begins and ends, the answer that you have given can be interpreted in a variety of ways.

Are we in the iron legs period?

The feet of iron and clay period?

The toes of iron and clay period?

Or past the toes?

Can you answer specifically?

Nope.  What is your answer?

[kwikphilly]

14 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

Nope.  What is your answer?

Gee,that's the same answer I'd have or very similar"
Nope,dunno"

I don't believe we've entered GT YET,oh probably the start of the birth pains for the beginning of sorrows but I do thinks it going to get much much worse before it all comes to a head..... My lil 2 cents!

[kwikphilly]

Just now, kwikphilly said:

Gee,that's the same answer I'd have or very similar"
Nope,dunno"

I don't believe we've entered GT YET,oh probably the start of the birth pains for the beginning of sorrows but I do thinks it going to get much much worse before it all comes to a head..... My lil 2 cents!

And ":Rod of Iron"- what about I think everyone is pretty accurate .... Indeed a " rod of iron" was used to smash the clay pots and yes,a Sceptor ( Authority);made of iron.   And both sound right to me,literally & metaphorically......though I believe Jesus Will Have a literal Rod of Iron(or Sceptor)-call it what they will

[FreeGrace]

On 2/15/2023 at 9:48 AM, kwikphilly said:

I don't believe we've entered GT YET,oh probably the start of the birth pains for the beginning of sorrows but I do thinks it going to get much much worse before it all comes to a head..... My lil 2 cents!

I grew up being taught a pretrib resurrection/rapture, but then I began to read the Bible.   In 2 Thess 2, Paul speaks of the "restrainer" being removed.  

 

6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 

7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

Obviously, the restrainer cannot be the Holy Spirit, as the pretrib rapture theory teaches.

Then, I heard someone say the "restrainer" refers to "moral government", which makes sense.  A moral government would act as the moral policeman of the world, keeping evil empires at bay.  Britain was that policeman in a previous era, and was replaced by the USA.  

Up until now, that is.  With the last presidential election, I believe that the restrainer has been removed or "taken out of the way".  And just look around at the 'moral' condition of this country.  

If the restrainer does refer to moral government, I'd say 2 Thess 2:6-8 has been fulfilled.  And v.8 says, "then the lawless one will be revealed".  It doesn't say right away, or immediately, but with moral government out of the way, how long would it take.

Then I considered the first set of judgments, the seal judgments in Rev 6.  It appears one could easily argue that the white and red horses have been released, and possibly the black horse.  And the green horse effect (not green house) is already been predicted by the talking heads.

So, either we are now in it, or at least very close to being in it.

My lil 2 cents.  Maybe 1.5 cents.

[kwikphilly]

11 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

I grew up being taught a pretrib resurrection/rapture, but then I began to read the Bible.   In 2 Thess 2, Paul speaks of the "restrainer" being removed.  

 

6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 

7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

Obviously, the restrainer cannot be the Holy Spirit, as the pretrib rapture theory teaches.

Then, I heard someone say the "restrainer" refers to "moral government", which makes sense.  A moral government would act as the moral policeman of the world, keeping evil empires at bay.  Britain was that policeman in a previous era, and was replaced by the USA.  

Up until now, that is.  With the last presidential election, I believe that the restrainer has been removed or "taken out of the way".  And just look around at the 'moral' condition of this country.  

If the restrainer does refer to moral government, I'd say 2 Thess 2:6-8 has been fulfilled.  And v.8 says, "then the lawless one will be revealed".  It doesn't say right away, or immediately, but with moral government out of the way, how long would it take.

Then I considered the first set of judgments, the seal judgments in Rev 6.  It appears one could easily argue that the white and red horses have been released, and possibly the black horse.  And the green horse effect (not green house) is already been predicted by the talking heads.

So, either we are now in it, or at least very close to being in it.

My lil 2 cents.  Maybe 1.5 cents.

So Brother,together we don't have a nickel between us!

All kidding aside,that's interesting- I'm always open to consider different possibilities because,like you I was taught " pre- trib rapture" and although I've always read the Bible I did not have a clue what I was reading ( thought I did when I used to KNOW EVERYTHING,lol)until I really surrendered to Christs Lordship and was made aware of that spirit of pride oppression ....eh,youth is wasted on the young

Having said all that,I don't see Holy Spirit as restrainer either and to really top it off I don't see America either or very significant in any way ... I often wonder if she'll be blown to smithereens or devastated by some catastrophic tidal wave or maybe a comet???

You know we Americans do seem to think the world revolves around us,lol Perhaps it could have if we didn't turn away from God

Well,for whatever that's worth

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

So Brother,together we don't have a nickel between us!

And that used to buy a half cup of coffee!!

2 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

All kidding aside,that's interesting- I'm always open to consider different possibilities because,like you I was taught " pre- trib rapture" and although I've always read the Bible I did not have a clue what I was reading ( thought I did when I used to KNOW EVERYTHING,lol)until I really surrendered to Christs Lordship and was made aware of that spirit of pride oppression ....eh,youth is wasted on the young

I think the problem is that since believers are taught to obey their 'elders', we simply accept what our 'elders' teach us.  So I'm especially interested in how the Berean Jews verified Paul's message.  When I started doing that, a whole new world opened up for me!

2 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

Having said all that,I don't see Holy Spirit as restrainer either and to really top it off I don't see America either or very significant in any way ... I often wonder if she'll be blown to smithereens or devastated by some catastrophic tidal wave or maybe a comet???

Seems to me the idea of "moral government" being a restrainer of evil (Satan) makes sense.  Any any case, it seems obvious that this country lost any resemblance to a moral government.  So it will be interesting to see who "rises to the top" to be Satan's useful idiot, I mean, world ruler.

2 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

You know we Americans do seem to think the world revolves around us,lol Perhaps it could have if we didn't turn away from God

Well,for whatever that's worth

With the current administration actively persecuting patriots, conservatives, Christians, etc, it will be interesting to see how the many revivals (around the world) will pan out.

I would love to be around long enough to see the Two Witnesses in action!  God may have other plans for me.

[Selah7]

45 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

I would love to be around long enough to see the Two Witnesses in action!

Would that be “far out” or what? 

[FreeGrace]

5 minutes ago, Selah7 said:

Would that be “far out” or what? 

[Mr. M]

3 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

Having said all that,I don't see Holy Spirit as restrainer either and to really top it off I don't see America either or very significant in any way .

All is 'restrained' by the Word of God. "that the scriptures be fulfilled".

Luke 21:24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Romans 11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

We don't know precisely when the time of the Gentiles

will be complete, but blindness is certainly being removed

from Israel, and Jerusalem remains a cup of trembling.

Another consideration for a restrainer is a prince of nations.

Daniel 10:12 Then he said to me, “Do not fear, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand, and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard; and I have come because of your words. 13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia. 14 Now I have come to make you understand what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision refers to many days yet to come.”

[kwikphilly]

51 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

And that used to buy a half cup of coffee!!

I think the problem is that since believers are taught to obey their 'elders', we simply accept what our 'elders' teach us.  So I'm especially interested in how the Berean Jews verified Paul's message.  When I started doing that, a whole new world opened up for me!

Seems to me the idea of "moral government" being a restrainer of evil (Satan) makes sense.  Any any case, it seems obvious that this country lost any resemblance to a moral government.  So it will be interesting to see who "rises to the top" to be Satan's useful idiot, I mean, world ruler.

With the current administration actively persecuting patriots, conservatives, Christians, etc, it will be interesting to see how the many revivals (around the world) will pan out.

I would love to be around long enough to see the Two Witnesses in action!  God may have other plans for me.

Useful idiot( hee hee)🫣-but yes,the current admin is certainly and blatantly on a mission.   Very useful idiots as well imo -I do pray for all of them but if I ever wondered whether some were born for destruction - know what I mean?

Anyway,it's very true- we were raised to respect our elders,be obedient and therefore even more so with our church Elders,of course we believed whatever we were told....and then I guess we heard Jesus Knocking at our door,and EVERYTHING changed,didn't it? Set us on our journey,searching,seeking and at the time we(I) probably didn't even know what we were looking for- but it was God's Truth!I was going to say ," wasn't it" but that's wrong...."wasn't HE"? Is accurate❤️ 😀

So,the Rod of Iron- Personally I do take God's Word literally- oh for sure much is figurative but I always see both the literal and the symbolic as I mentioned very early on ..

I sure would like to be alive when Jesus Comes....Like Selah Says " far out" lol.   Be nice to be awake to see it all unfold ,the dead in Christ Rising First .....I guess I'm supposed to look forward to dying but I don't,I'd prefer not to if I had the option...Probably because of all I've been through to stay aliveNot that any of it would make a difference if it were not God's Will.....uhhh,I don't know