Marilyn C Posted February 16 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 267 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,205 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,497 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted February 16 Baptism - Gk. `baptizo,` to make whelmed (ie. full wet). Sprinkle - to scatter in small drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RdJ Posted February 16 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 66 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,094 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 613 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/11/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/25/1970 Share Posted February 16 (edited) I saw Torben Sondergaard talk about when he was in jail and he is all about baptizing. He always said you have to get baptized by immersion. But there was no way he could baptize the guys in prison who got saved and he just poured a glass of water over them and those were some of the most powerful baptisms he saw. Edited February 16 by Renskedejonge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_from_pa Posted February 16 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 447 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 301 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/13/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted February 16 On 2/9/2023 at 1:30 PM, portlie said: I am wondering if baptism for children is what God wants, many say it is the new covenant and, like circumcision should be done to dedicate a child to God thank you to whoever can help No, we should not baptize babies because they do not understand what it's about. People ought to be baptized when they believe. You can do your own research, but I believe that practice started because infant mortality traditionally was high and that was a way to guarantee eternal life for them. Today people introduce other doctrines to assure the babies all go to heaven, i.e. "age of accountability" doctrines and the like - despite the scriptural criteria that the only way to God is through Christ which babies did not make that choice either (and who knows what they would have done)? I think the Lord treats babies the same way those who never heard the true gospel: they are resurrected to the Great White Throne judgment, a post "mini-millennium" of sorts for them to be given their first chance, as they were resurrected physically aka "general resurrection". But not everyone agrees with this, and I won't make it a Christian vs non-Christian issue (rather, its an understanding issue) but other than the infant baptism and "age of accountability" doctrines, people really don't know where babies go otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted February 16 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.90 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 16 1 minute ago, tim_from_pa said: No, we should not baptize babies because they do not understand what it's about. Is Baptism a ritual of man or is it the work of the Holy Spirit? Can the Holy Spirit not work in babies? What would Jesus say about this, about the little ones among us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_from_pa Posted February 17 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 447 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 301 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/13/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17 23 hours ago, FJK said: Is Baptism a ritual of man or is it the work of the Holy Spirit? Can the Holy Spirit not work in babies? What would Jesus say about this, about the little ones among us? That's a valid point, and I won't deny that given that only God's Spirit can work in any of us (God makes the first move). And maybe the ones who had died is the evidence that God already chosen them. Likewise, while generations and nations prior to Christ could not have come to Him, while they get their first chance later, are we to get ours here by virtue of the generation we were born in? After all, God's complete (written) Word is now here so there is really no excuse if a person has access. After all, they can read it and study it. But one can be certain that if the Holy Spirit did not work on a baby, their "classification" for want of a better term is the same as those who have not heard the true gospel. We can be sure of that much without assuming the Holy Spirit did anything with that baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJK Posted February 17 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 3,349 Content Per Day: 7.90 Reputation: 1,305 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/01/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17 5 minutes ago, tim_from_pa said: We can be sure of that much without assuming the Holy Spirit did anything with that baby. Really, we can't, or at least shouldn't, assume anything at all. Assumptions tend to lead to error in those things based on them. Bur that can lead to all sorts of semantic debate that only distracts us from understanding the deeper meanings of what is being discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choir loft Posted February 21 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,209 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/23/2015 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/10/1947 Share Posted February 21 (edited) On 2/9/2023 at 1:30 PM, portlie said: I am wondering if baptism for children is what God wants, many say it is the new covenant and, like circumcision should be done to dedicate a child to God thank you to whoever can help Infant baptism is NOT a part of the New Covenant. If some reader thinks it is, then please provide chapter and verse to validate the assertion. The New Covenant is NOT NEW LAW, which is the errant teaching of the post-modern church today. The New Covenant is a fulfillment of the old covenant not a replacement of it. (Matt 5:17) Infant baptism is an ordinance established by the church, which justifies its use by errant references to scripture. According to scripture one must be saved so as to be JUSTIFIED for admission unto everlasting blessedness. Infants are not capable of making decisions on any level other than to cry for their food or mess their pants. Because infants cannot make religious decisions the church has insisted that baptism REPLACES the LAW God has established (Acts 4:12). It does NOT. The meaning of Baptism is clear. It signifies to God and man that an individual is appealing unto God for a clear conscience because he or she has REPENTED of personal SIN and wickedness. However, the church subverts the LAW of Moses in an empty attempt to solve the problem of infant death. The LAW solves the problem without any form of child wetness being involved. According to the LAW, which has NOT been abolished (Matt 5:17), one is NOT guilty of SIN unless one breaks the LAW. Will the reader please inform us which LAW a newborn baby can break? Can it murder someone? Can it steal or lie about something? Can it dishonor its parents or covet its neighbor's wife? Which LAW can a baby break? If you can tell me which LAW a baby can break I'll let you know if its excluded from Abraham's bosom. God DOES require baptism as an outward demonstration of REPENTANCE. That's what John's baptism was all about. Unfortunately the church has usurped the ordinance of Holy Baptism to mean that church membership saves, not Jesus. Church membership is thus certified by baptism either of an adult or a child. This is not what scripture tells us. Baptism does NOT save and neither does church membership. Baptism demonstrates repentance....which IS a prerequisite for the gift of saving grace, by the LAW. The problem here is that the church establishes laws and traditions in direct violation of God's LAW.....the SAME thing Jewish pharisees did prior to Jesus' arrival the first time. When He returns He'll find the church doing the same thing Jews once did....and still do, btw. Thus the prophecy of LAWlessness in the End Times has been fulfilled. It's not street violence, although that too is an issue, but the outward deliberate denial of God's Holy LAW - which has NOT been abolished. (Matt 5:17) Hope this clears up a mess of wetness. that's me, hollering from the choir loft... (Isaiah 6:9-10) Edited February 21 by choir loft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted February 21 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 28 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,710 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 8,526 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted February 21 On 2/9/2023 at 11:30 AM, portlie said: I am wondering if baptism for children is what God wants, many say it is the new covenant and, like circumcision should be done to dedicate a child to God thank you to whoever can help Well, it's certainly never, ever found in the Bible. Their are only two baptisms mentioned in the Bible, baptism of the Holy spirit, which only happens after a person becomes a believer which involves a informed choice, something a infant is incapable of doing, And water baptism, which is by immersion only, and again only once someone has made a commitment to Christ which involves a conscious and informed decision, something a infant cannot do. So if you want to dedicate the baby to the Lord (I've seen some of these) that's cool. It's saying your agreeing to raise them the way Christ wants to, but keep in mind two things. One, it's for YOU. dedicating the baby won't save the child. That is a decision the child will have to make themselves when they grow up. The dedication won't save them regardless of whether your spray some water on them or not. It's a action on YOUR part to commit to doing everything you can to convince them to make that decision themselves when they grow older. The second is it's NOT commanded in the Bible. Infant baptism is not found anywhere in any light. So it is NOT something you have to do. And from a salvational perspective it's completely useless, so if that's your goal, to "save" your child? Yeah won't happen. So if your goal is to make a commitment to raise that child In a Christlike home, then yeah, but I wouldn't mess with the baptism I'd just do a dedication ceremony. If your doing it because you've been lead to believe it's somehow for salvation? Don't. Your doing it for the wrong reasons and it's entirely empty and hollow, and a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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