The 6th Seal

[Revelation Man]

19 hours ago, Biblican said:

I think you have missed my point. I never said I believed that the tribes were lost. I said that the early Christians saw themselves as the true Jews.

Just because some sect, or person, (God is no respecter of MEN) somewhere in history may have said this, its not true and the Church has never believed this untruth. You have to be carful when building your core beliefs/doctrines on something someone (ANY SOMEONE) says or even a certain sect puts forth, that is very, very bad biblical hermeneutics. 

19 hours ago, Biblican said:

They have been grafted in and the Jews who have not accepted the New Covenant were cut off. They can be grafted in when they accept Christ and all Israel will be saved when Jesus returns.

Yes, and no. They can be grafted back in via belief in Jesus their  Messiah, many are now, but Israel as a whole (NATION) is blinded in part (as a Nation, not as individuals) until the 1335 event sees the Two-witnesses return just before the DOTL, not when Jesus returns, it will be too late by then. See Malachi 4:5-6 Elijah is sent back before the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord to turn Israel back unto God. See Zech. 13:8-9, we see 1/3 of the Jews repent, we see that 2/3 will refuse to repent and be cut-off (DIE), then one verse later in Zech. 14:1-2 we see the DOTL arrives and Jerusalem is conquered by the A.C. So, this happens way before Jesus returns, Israel, just like the Church and Abraham, can only come unto God by FAITH ALONE, its not Faith when Jesus shows up. Israel are made whole when they believe on Jesus. Israel are grafted back in, but only AFTER the Pre Trib (70th week) Rapture. Then they rule with Jesus via the Kingdom Age.

19 hours ago, Biblican said:

Christians do not replace the Jews we become Jews.  What makes a true Jew is not their race but their relationship with God. No one can have a relationship with God unless they come to Him through Jesus in the New Covenant.

This is simply not true, we are not Jews, you and others MISREAD and MISUNDERSTAND Gal. 3. Jews and Gentiles come unto Christ BY FAITH ALONE, that way unto God (FAITH) is what makes us all the same to God. Pstt, even Males & Females come unto Christ in the exact same way, but we are not ONE GENDER !! Paul uses that as an example, why is it you can't see that if he juxtaposes the Jew and the Gentiles, and he does the exact same thing via Males and Females, and they are not all one gender, then why would you think he is saying Jews and Gentiles are one and the same? Paul is only speaking about our path to God being the same.

By the way, their is no New Covenant, it had to be spoken of in that manner because the Jews so clung to the Laws of Moses, but what does Gal. 3 say? The PROMISE (Jesus the Redeemer to come) came 430 years BEFORE the Law, so the Promise was the original Covenant. (THINK about it, SEE BELOW).

Gal. 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Paul was NEVER saying the Jews and Gentiles are ONE PEOPLE per se, he was telling the Gentiles to STOP trying to keep the Laws of Moses in order to be "Jew like", in order to work your way to Heaven. He then says you need to live BY FAITH, for God sees us all in the SAME MANNER, in that we must come unto him by FAITH ALONE, not by the works of the law, that is why the chapter starts out Oh Galatians who has Bewitched (Deceived) you into believing in The Law(Flesh) and not staying in the Spirit (FAITH) as you started out. You, and some others, think Paul is saying we are ALL ONE, which makes us "Jews" when he is saying just the opposite, STOP trying to be "Jew like" in order to earn your way to Heaven (by keeping the Laws of Moses), God receives us all in ONE MANNER, by Faith Alone, Faith made Abraham Righteous, me and you Righteous, and both Jews and Gentiles Righteous and both Males and Females Righteous. We are all one in that manner alone, not in our nationalities. Jews are Jews, Gentiles are not Jews, Males and Females are also still male and female. Amen. We can never be a Jew just like males will never become females and vice versa.

19 hours ago, Biblican said:

The point I was making is that because the Jews do not consider someone a Jew unless their mother is a Jew (not the father, the father is the tribe); Joseph's wife was accepted as a Jew just because she was married to Joseph, a similitude of Jesus.

All this is semantics, all that matters is what God thinks.

19 hours ago, Biblican said:

This is the Biblical precedent for the Gentiles being grafted in through the Messiah and why the symbolism in Rev. 7 is so important, where Manasseh replaces Dan, "the Jews who say they are Jews and are not" because they have rejected Jesus' atonement.

No, go read Gal. 3 again, and Romans 9-11 again, we were grafted in by FAITH ALONE !! You just stated that factoid above, we were grafted in because of BELIEF, the Jews were grafted out because of UNBELIEF. They will only be grafted back in via FAITH/Belief. The Jews are Jews, Paul is just speaking about the Jews calling which was the Kingdom Age. Then he says their calling is WITHOUT REPENTANCE, so that Kingdom Age will come to pass.

Dan is not replaced, the tribe is still there, again semantics, God just refused to use the name of a man who will be in Hell as the head of the tribe. Pssstt, they still came from Dan's loins. 

19 hours ago, Biblican said:

Again, unless you understand prophetic symbolism and how it works, any interpretation of Revelation is going to be inaccurate.

I understand it fully, and the book of Revelation in full. Far more than anyone you have ever met. Not bragging just being factual, because I know more about the book of Revelation than anyone I have ever met, read or heard. If I say otherwise I would be lying.

19 hours ago, Biblican said:

The description of the woman Babylon begins by telling us she is a whore. That description matches apostate Israel in the Old Testament.

The Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGION of All Time, we can see this because she has the blood of the Saints AND Martyrs of Jesus on her hands. She is then KILLED OFF by the 10 Kings (Psstt, how can Israel be killed off when God is going to rule from Jerusalem and Israel for 1000 years? That makes no sense) in league with the A.C.

Calling Israel the Harlot of Rev. 17 just shows me you do not understand the Book of Revelation (BoR) in general.

19 hours ago, Biblican said:

. Any apostate compromised Christian is seated on the beast being carried by the world and not the Holy Spirit.

The Church is Raptured by that time, via a Pre 70th week rapture.

19 hours ago, Biblican said:

She formicates with the kings showing us she prefers to be one with the world and not Jesus. After she is used by the beast the apostate church is attacked by the beast. This carries a very potent message to those compromised Christians today who need to repent and "Come out of her" before it is too late. Again. if we ignore the prophetic details we are going to miss the point of what God is trying to tell us, the lessons that are so important for us to know now.

The Harlot (False Religions) fornicated with all of the Kings in history, and thus the Beasts Kings also, this PICTURE is taken right out of Daniel ch. 5, go read it, Mene Mene Tekel, your Kingdom is taken away from you. The King had a shin dig party so to speak and defiled the plates and chalices meant for the temple of God alone, thus God allowed him to be conquered that very night. Come out of her is to the Jews who repent and Flee Judea ALONE, no one else. 

God Bless

Edited April 6, 2023 by Revelation Man

[DeighAnn]

I'll say it.  The House of Israel the ten tribes were LOST as in they didn't know who they were TO GOD anymore once they went out of captivity.  They didn't go back to their lands, they went to inhabit the whole world and become many nations. 

THEM not knowing they were OF ISRAEL, didn't stop GODS PLAN from being carried out and didn't stop the promises from being fulfilled.  And being a 'pure blood' didn't matter anymore because they came in FAITH.  

But they went out and were sifted amongst the heathen and WERE THOSE WHO when HIS SHEEP HEAR HIS VOICE" aka WHEN they heard the GOOD NEWS immediately knew without question or knowing why, followed Him.  That is why some just HEAR and instantly feel at home, while others have to almost be convinced.  

 

[Revelation Man]

Each tribe had SEED living in Jerusalem, they were NEVER LOST. Those carried off are still not a part of Israel God forsook them forever as Jews, they thus became Gentiles. God cast them off. 

[Biblican]

19 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Just because some sect, or person, (God is no respecter of MEN) somewhere in history may have said this, its not true and the Church has never believed this untruth.

That is untrue as evidenced by Justin Martyr's statement which is the historical evidence that the early church saw them as Jews, spiritual Jews of course not by race. A true Jew is someone who is circumcised in heart as Paul taught.

19 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Elijah is sent back before the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord to turn Israel back unto God. See Zech. 13:8-9,

Jesus said that  Elijah had come already and He is referring to John the Baptist.

19 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

All this is semantics, all that matters is what God thinks.

You keep missing the point. Because a Jew is not a Jew unless the mother is a Jew then Joseph's wife was considered a Jew just because she was married to Joseph who is a similitude of Jesus therefore setting the precedent for the symbolism in Rev, 7.

19 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Dan is not replaced, the tribe is still there, again semantics, God just refused to use the name of a man who will be in Hell as the head of the tribe. Pssstt, they still came from Dan's loins. 

Again you missed the point. Dan is replaced symbolically in the vision to show us that the Jews have been cut off because of their lack of faith. That tribe in the vision represents the Jews who say they are Jews and are not in Rev. 2:9, which also confirms what I said before that a true Jew is one that has received Jesus and is a spiritual Jew, circumcised in heart.

19 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I understand it fully, and the book of Revelation in full. Far more than anyone you have ever met. Not bragging just being factual, because I know more about the book of Revelation than anyone I have ever met, read or heard. If I say otherwise I would be lying.

Pride goes before a fall. You have misunderstood much of the prophetic symbolism we have discussed.

19 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGION of All Time, we can see this because she has the blood of the Saints AND Martyrs of Jesus on her hands. She is then KILLED OFF by the 10 Kings (Psstt, how can Israel be killed off when God is going to rule from Jerusalem and Israel for 1000 years? That makes no sense) in league with the A.C.

Calling Israel the Harlot of Rev. 17 just shows me you do not understand the Book of Revelation (BoR) in general.

According to the Old Testament scriptures God describes His unfaithful people as the whore. I gave you the scripture where God calls her a harlot. Combining that with the colors that are associated with Israel and the church, the whore is referring to God's people who have abandoned or compromised the faith. At the same time the whore represents the one world governments new one world religion that persecutes all true Christians who will not compromise. As history attests, Christians have been martyred by apostate Christians in the past. That's what the inquisition has shown us. Jesus said the enemies of His people would be from their own house. The whore Babylon represents the apostate religious system that has been introduced by the beast and the Lord warns His church to come out of that apostasy. The people who are behind the one world government are in the process of developing a new religion to go along with the government. it will incorporate elements of all the religions and of course anyone who claims that Jesus is the only way will be persecuted. The beast will use the apostate Christians and Jews to promote it and when they are not needed any longer the church will be persecuted and cut off from the government. The whore is also described as a city and this is the mystery of Babylon, she is at the same time an apostate religious system and also a physical representative city which is destroyed during the time of God's wrath. 

The remnant church is raptured before the tribulation in chapter 11. In chapter 17 we are being shown Mystery/spiritual Babylon which has been operating for years persecuting the true believers. In other words she does not show up after the rapture. And after the rapture there will still be many Christians on earth because the five churches that are in error and who have not repented will be left behind. The only time there will be no true Christians on earth is after the tribulation when Jesus sends His angels to take the overcomers out before the time of wrath. In order to understand Revelation's time frames properly you have to use Matthew 24 as a template.

If you do not understand the principles that the Book of Revelation is trying to convey then you really don't understand the book at all. The whole scenario of the whore on the beast is a warning to God's people not to compromise with the world for the sake of retaining status wealth and security.

 

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, Biblican said:

That is untrue as evidenced by Justin Martyr's statement which is the historical evidence that the early church saw them as Jews, spiritual Jews of course not by race. A true Jew is someone who is circumcised in heart as Paul taught.

21 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

LOL, no it is not, one man doesno6 speak fir the Church, the things you are advocating are nigh to being antisemitic, do you not get that. No, a true Jew is a Jew, PERIOD.  You trying to replace Israel with the Church is WRONG, you are going down bad road.

1 hour ago, Biblican said:

Jesus said that  Elijah had come already and He is referring to John the Baptist.

Good grief, can no one interpret scriptures anymore? Read Luke 1, what was  Zacharias told? 

Luke 1:13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. 14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.

15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Thus he is not Elijah, and Jesus never says he is. When the Disciples asked Jesus if Elijah will return before the DOTL, he says yes, to turn Israel back unto God, but then says that Elijah has already come and they received him not. He is not saying Elijah the Prophet has shown up, that is just you and others not getting the gist of what Jesus was saying, he gave us a sort of Axiom. He understands that John came in the spirit and power of Elijah, meaning that Elijah will say nothing that John has not already said, but it was not TIME for Israel tom repent yet, thus as a Nation they rejected him just like the later on do to Jesus, but when Elijah shows u 1/3 of Israel repents (see Zech. 13:8-9). So, since Jesus said they received him not, but we know Israel repents when Elijah shows up, that means John could nit be Elijah, Jesus was just pointing out to his Disciples, many of who used to be John's Disciples, that he prepared his way, he became less, he was a GREAT MAN, he did the exact same thing Elijah will do, but they would not listen unto him. John was not Elijah. Men can not be born of a mother twice, Elijah and Moses will be sent back with Glorious bodies.

1 hour ago, Biblican said:

You keep missing the point. Because a Jew is not a Jew unless the mother is a Jew then Joseph's wife was considered a Jew just because she was married to Joseph who is a similitude of Jesus therefore setting the precedent for the symbolism in Rev, 7.

The 144,000 is the 3.5-5 million Jews who repent, not 144,000. 

1 hour ago, Biblican said:

Again you missed the point. Dan is replaced symbolically in the vision to show us that the Jews have been cut off because of their lack of faith. That tribe in the vision represents the Jews who say they are Jews and are not in Rev. 2:9, which also confirms what I said before that a true Jew is one that has received Jesus and is a spiritual Jew, circumcised in heart.

I do not miss anything, I know exactly what you are saying and you are wrong sister.

1 hour ago, Biblican said:

Pride goes before a fall. You have misunderstood much of the prophetic symbolism we have discussed.

Sad that you think I should lie. I understand it all, you don't. I mean you have the Church taking Israel's place, need I say anything else? 

1 hour ago, Biblican said:

According to the Old Testament scriptures God describes His unfaithful people as the whore.

The Harlot of Rev. 17 is ALL FALSE RELIGION of All Time, not Israel. That is just people not understanding who the Harlot is.

 

[DeighAnn]

7 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

You trying to replace Israel with the Church is WRONG, you are going down bad road.

Israel are GODS PEOPLE.  Some are of the bloodline some are not.  The church is a part of Israel and GODS word tells us again and again and again and again.  

There is no Jew or Greek,  If you are Christs you are Abrahams, they are blinded for YOUR SAKE..Jesus came for the lost sheep of the HOUSE OF ISRAEL.  Not for the House of Judah cause they weren't lost.  THEIR mission was to bring forth the Messiah.  The house of Israel was to go become MANY NATIONS...Christian nations.  

How I abhor the doctrine of pre trib.  NOT ONE VERSE.  NOT ONE.  Nothing about who, what is required, what will happen, how that judgment comes about, why it is happening, NOTHING.  It steals from the glory of the 2nd Advent making it just ANOTHER ONE OF GODS RETURN/COMINGS.  

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Israel are GODS PEOPLE.  Some are of the bloodline some are not.  The church is a part of Israel and GODS word tells us again and again and again and again.  

WRONG

 

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

There is no Jew or Greek,  If you are Christs you are Abrahams, they are blinded for YOUR SAKE..Jesus came for the lost sheep of the HOUSE OF ISRAEL.  Not for the House of Judah cause they weren't lost.  THEIR mission was to bring forth the Messiah.  The house of Israel was to go become MANY NATIONS...Christian nations.  

You have zero clue what Paul meant, nor the desire to study, you ALREADY KNOW what it means, even though you don't.

2 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

How I abhor the doctrine of pre trib.  NOT ONE VERSE.  NOT ONE.  Nothing about who, what is required, what will happen, how that judgment comes about, why it is happening, NOTHING.  It steals from the glory of the 2nd Advent making it just ANOTHER ONE OF GODS RETURN/COMINGS.  

Well then I guess that means you hate God. Because the Rapture will be pre 70th week.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Revelation Man

[Biblican]

6 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

LOL, no it is not, one man doesno6 speak fir the Church, the things you are advocating are nigh to being antisemitic, do you not get that. No, a true Jew is a Jew, PERIOD.  You trying to replace Israel with the Church is WRONG, you are going down bad road.

Good grief, can no one interpret scriptures anymore? Read Luke 1, what was  Zacharias told? 

Luke 1:13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. 14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.

15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.

17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Thus he is not Elijah, and Jesus never says he is. When the Disciples asked Jesus if Elijah will return before the DOTL, he says yes, to turn Israel back unto God, but then says that Elijah has already come and they received him not. He is not saying Elijah the Prophet has shown up, that is just you and others not getting the gist of what Jesus was saying, he gave us a sort of Axiom. He understands that John came in the spirit and power of Elijah, meaning that Elijah will say nothing that John has not already said, but it was not TIME for Israel tom repent yet, thus as a Nation they rejected him just like the later on do to Jesus, but when Elijah shows u 1/3 of Israel repents (see Zech. 13:8-9). So, since Jesus said they received him not, but we know Israel repents when Elijah shows up, that means John could nit be Elijah, Jesus was just pointing out to his Disciples, many of who used to be John's Disciples, that he prepared his way, he became less, he was a GREAT MAN, he did the exact same thing Elijah will do, but they would not listen unto him. John was not Elijah. Men can not be born of a mother twice, Elijah and Moses will be sent back with Glorious bodies.

The 144,000 is the 3.5-5 million Jews who repent, not 144,000. 

I do not miss anything, I know exactly what you are saying and you are wrong sister.

Sad that you think I should lie. I understand it all, you don't. I mean you have the Church taking Israel's place, need I say anything else? 

The Harlot of Rev. 17 is ALL FALSE RELIGION of All Time, not Israel. That is just people not understanding who the Harlot is.

 

We will have to agree to disagree. 

[Revelation Man]

On 4/6/2023 at 9:34 PM, Biblican said:

We will have to agree to disagree. 

I am correct, I do not care what others say, only what God says and the difference is Prophecy is my calling, and I didn't speak on these things for the first 30 years of my calling. I don't just guess, others do, that leads people down wrong paths. God will always tells us in His due time, if we will listen, if we already have all the answers when He gets ready to reveal things, He can't break through our "KNOWLEDGE". So, when you get to heaven and say Lord why didn't you tell me, He will say I tried to over and over, you wouldn't listen. Remember that guy on Worthy? (SMILE)

It is what it is.

[Biblican]

On 4/8/2023 at 1:27 AM, Revelation Man said:

I am correct, I do not care what others say, only what God says and the difference is Prophecy is my calling, and I didn't speak on these things for the first 30 years of my calling. I don't just guess, others do, that leads people down wrong paths. God will always tells us in His due time, if we will listen, if we already have all the answers when He gets ready to reveal things, He can't break through our "KNOWLEDGE". So, when you get to heaven and say Lord why didn't you tell me, He will say I tried to over and over, you wouldn't listen. Remember that guy on Worthy? (SMILE)

It is what it is.

You still do not understand how symbolism works in visions. You really can't unless you have had prophetic dreams yourself. The clues in Revelation are there for a reason and are very important. For example, if the two witnesses were just two individuals, then the word "Candlestick" would not be there. That designates them as churches or at least two representatives of churches according to the usage of the word in Revelation. Candlesticks are churches. From the dreams that the Lord has given to both myself and my husband, we have learned that if one of these clues is left out when relating the dream, the entire interpretation is affected. Revelation is no different as visions are like dreams and the same rules of interpretation apply. That is why there are so many misinterpretations of Revelation  because unless one has been given the gift of interpreting dreams then it really cannot be interpreted accurately.