The Battle of Gog of the Land of Magog

[Shilohsfoal]

36 minutes ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

Interesting.

"all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him....
he deceives them that dwell on earth...
and causes all... to receive a mark" Revelation 13:8,14,16
Revelation describes a world wide deception
and a world wide need for the mark for buying and selling.
 

The beast as a whole is indeed a kingdom; Revelation 17:8-12.

One of the heads, kings, of that kingdom will seem to die and be brought back to life in a marvelous way; Revelation 13:3, 17:8

That wounded/healed king is also referred to as the beast. (Rev 19:20)

He happens first, and then comes the false prophet,
one doing miracles and causing people to pay homage to and worship
the wounded/healed king. Revelation 13:11-18

Have you ever looked up the word "earth"to see what the meaning of it is?

Try it sometime.You may learn that the word"ghay" can simply mean a country and not necessarily the entire world as you've been led to believe.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Desopixi Seilynam]

13 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Have you ever looked up the word "earth"to see what the meaning of it is?

"and God called the dry land Earth" Genesis 1:10

"and authority was given him over all tribes,
and tongues and nations and all who dwell on earth shall worship him,
whose names are not in the book of life" Rev 13:7-8

The context makes clear that it's talking about the whole entire world.

[Shilohsfoal]

4 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

"and God called the dry land Earth" Genesis 1:10

"and authority was given him over all tribes,
and tongues and nations and all who dwell on earth shall worship him,
whose names are not in the book of life" Rev 13:7-8

The context makes clear that it's talking about the whole entire world.

The context says they followed after the beast.I suspect they who follow the beast into his kingdom.

 

Revelation 16:11

The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony

 

Perhaps you should rewrite this verse so that it says the whole world is plunged into darkness since you don't believe he has a kingdom.

[Shilohsfoal]

4 hours ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

"and God called the dry land Earth" Genesis 1:10

"and authority was given him over all tribes,
and tongues and nations and all who dwell on earth shall worship him,
whose names are not in the book of life" Rev 13:7-8

The context makes clear that it's talking about the whole entire world.

PS

Reminds me a lot of the nation called Israel today.The inhabitants of that nation are from many nations and speaks many tongues.They have followed after the beast from about all nations from all over the world.

Instead of waiting for Messiah to lead them into the promised land ,they followed what they thought was the next best thing.Now Benjamin netanyahu wants to mark them all.

Imagine that.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Shilohsfoal

[Retrobyter]

4 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

I do believe your teacher has failed to comprehend that the entire chapter is about events leading up to the time of the end .Anyone who has been paying attention would know this chapter is about the United states and it's middle eastern policies.Its conquests and it final destruction of the middle east.

Your teacher ,Bryan T. Huie has misled you my friend.My advice to you is to forget all that you have been taught and go back to square one.Consider the things you have seen in your lifetime concerning US policy and compare them to this chapter.Youayvbe completely stunned by what you can learn.

As s for Michael in verse 12:1.

He is Michael the archangel whom Christ send to gather his elect.It takes place at the time of great tribulation ,the likes of which has never been seen or shall ever be seen again.

Daniel 12:1-2

 

At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.

Everyone who's names have been written have not been delivered yet.That takes place at the time of great resurection.At the time of the end.

 

Yes ,you need a different teacher.Bryan T. Huie has misled you.

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

No, I don't think so. First of all, the messenger who is relating this future history NAMES NAMES by listing things in history that have only happened ONCE!

For instance, let's start at the beginning:

Daniel 11:1-2 (KJV)

1 Also I in the first year of Darius the Mede, even I, stood to confirm and to strengthen him. 2 And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia. 

According to the academic history of Persia, this would be Darius (Daryavesh) II Ochus, who reigned from 424 to 404 B.C., placing this visitation in 424 to 423 B.C.

Thus the four kings of Persia after him were Artaxerxes (Artachverosh) II, III, and IV, and Darius III. (Artaxerxes V, who lasted for less than a year, probably didn't count.)

Then, we read ...

Daniel 11:3-4 (KJV)

3 And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will. 4 And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.

This is, of course, Alexander the Great of Macedonia, who reigned from 336 to 323 B.C. When he died, his son was yet unborn and left a vacancy that was taken over by his four generals, Antigonus, Cassander, Ptolemy, and Seleucus. We read this summary of the time of strife following Alexander's death:

Alexander left a huge empire at his death. His family and his generals jostled for control of this kingdom. When the dust settled, only two of his top officers remained alive. His other generals, his mother, his wife, his son, his illegitimate son, his sister, his half-sister, and his half-brother, were all dead. Of this group, only one general (Antipater) died of natural causes.

After much fighting and jockeying for position, Alexander's empire was divided into four major portions by 301 BCE: (1) Cassander ruled over Greece, (2) Lysimachus ruled in Asia Minor, (3) Seleucus I Nicator ruled in Babylon and Persia, and (4) Ptolemy I Soter ruled over the Holy Land and Egypt.

So, the "king of the south" in verse 5 is Ptolemy I "Soter" ("Savior"):

Daniel 11:5-6 (KJV)

5 And the king of the south shall be strong, and one of his princes; and he shall be strong above him, and have dominion; his dominion shall be a great dominion. 6 And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the king's daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he stand, nor his arm: but she shall be given up, and they that brought her, and he that begat her, and he that strengthened her in these times.

This is describing Berenice, the daughter of Ptolemy II:

Twenty years later (281 BCE), when Seleucus I killed Lysimachus in battle, only two dynasties remained in Alexander's old empire – the Seleucid kings in the north and the Ptolemaic kings in the south. ...

This is speaking from respect to the Land of Israel.

In 249 BCE, king of the South Ptolemy II Philadelphus sent his daughter Berenice to king of the North Antiochus II Theos. His plan was to stop the war that was raging (the Second Syrian War) and unite the two kingdoms through their marriage. Unfortunately, this plan had a flaw: Antiochus II was already married. However, because he knew his marriage to Ptolemy II's daughter would ensure peace and allow him to regain most of the Syrian possessions his father had lost to the king of the South, Antiochus II put away his wife Laodice and married Berenice. She persuaded him to reject Laodice's children and set up her own to succeed him on the throne.

However, after Ptolemy II died in 246 BCE, Antiochus II repudiated his marriage to Berenice and left her and their infant son to return to Laodice. Doubting his faithfulness, Laodice quickly murdered Antiochus II with poison. She then convinced her son, Seleucus II Callinicus, to kill both Berenice and her son. So, just as the prophecy said would happen, Ptolemy II king of the South, his daughter Berenice, and Antiochus II king of the North all lost in their struggle for power.

So, this takes us from Daniel's time in 424 B.C. to 246 B.C. in just 6 verses.

When we get to verses 21 through 31 we read about the prophecy of the antetype of the "beast," Antiochus IV "Epiphanes":

Antiochus IV's army desecrated the Temple and stopped the daily sacrifices. On the 15th of Kislev, in December 168 BCE, the Syrians built a pagan altar over the altar of burnt offering in the Temple and placed an image of Zeus Olympius upon it. Ten days later, on the 25th of Kislev, swine's flesh was offered on the altar to Zeus.

And now, the text has entered "the intertestamental times," and the history that is recorded in 1 & 2 Maccabees is left out of the canon. Just the same, this is what happened in 168 B.C. People lost their lives if they had in their possession a Torah scroll, had their infant circumcised, or refused to break the Sabbath for the Hellenizers who were put in charge by this Antiochus IV! This was when the Dreidel game was made! The children were forbidden to study Torah, but studied it anyway, and when the guards came to see what they were doing, they'd hide their Torah portions and take out 4-sided tops (dreidels), as though they were playing a gambling game with them!

So, from verses 1 to 6, the text covered 424 - 246 = 188 years.
From verses 7 to 31, the text covered 246 - 168 = 78 years.
WHY would the text suddenly JUMP more than 168 + 2023 - 1 = 2190 YEARS?!!

Sorry, but THAT is what doesn't fit with the text! This messenger goes into considerable detail with many various scenes down through the lives of the Antiochus's and the Ptolemies. Why would he suddenly "shift gears" into talking about the DISTANT FUTURE?! It doesn't follow, and it doesn't make sense!

No, what DOES make sense is that verses look more into the NEAR future:

What appears to have caused scholars to stray away from the correct understanding at this point of the prophecy is that they were unable to find a successor to Antiochus IV who matched the description of "the king." But two points must be kept in mind in order to properly understand this prophecy. (1) The subject is the Seleucid or Ptolemaic dynasties ONLY as these kingdoms affected Daniel's people. Therefore, the expression "the king," without any other description, could certainly mean one who was king over Israel.  (2) Secondly, the immediately preceding verses (Dan. 11:32-35) refer to the Jews and their situation during and after the Maccabean revolt. Based on the history of this period, we should look for the fulfillment of this verse by a "king" other than Antiochus IV or the Hasmonean rulers.

Both secular history and the New Testament record the acts of a king who appeared on the scene in Israel at the end of the Hasmonean period. As we shall see, this king fulfilled every prophetic description given in verses 36 through 39. That king was Herod the Great. In verse 36, the one spoken of is not identified as either the king of the North or the king of the South, but simply as "the king." Herod was seated as king on the throne of Israel when Messiah Yeshua was born. He is the called "the king" in the Gospels (Matt. 2:1, 3, 9; Luke 1:5). He, like Antiochus IV before him, was an antetype of the coming Antichrist, as his actions revealed. ...

Furthermore, WHY WOULD SUCH A WELL-DEFINED HISTORY SO NEAR THE FIRST ADVENT OF THE MESSIAH NOT INCLUDE HIM?!!! Can you see the STUPIDITY of such a position?!

No, the Messiah IS included in the text! He is found in Daniel 12:1!

Daniel 12:1 (KJV)

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Mikhaa'eel ("Michael") means "Who is like God!" And, He is listed as "the great prince," "haSar haGaadowl! " Who is this PRINCE?! We KNOW that the Messiah is called "HaSar Shalom" or "the Prince of Peace"; so why couldn't this refer to the Messiah??!  He is the One who "stands up for His people!" "Michael" may NOT be an "angel" (he's not called an "angel," btw); He may be a CHRISTOPHANY! 

Furthermore, in Daniel 9, GaVriy'eel ("Gabriel") already told us that the MESSIAH leaves the children of Yhudah in Jerusalem "DESOLATE" until all that is decided is poured upon these "DESOLATE" people! This matches with the "time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation!" NOW, the text has introduced the GAP!

[Shilohsfoal]

31 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

No, I don't think so. First of all, the messenger who is relating this future history NAMES NAMES by listing things in history that have only happened ONCE!

For instance, let's start at the beginning:

Daniel 11:1-2 (KJV)

1 Also I in the first year of Darius the Mede, even I, stood to confirm and to strengthen him. 2 And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia. 

According to the academic history of Persia, this would be Darius (Daryavesh) II Ochus, who reigned from 424 to 404 B.C., placing this visitation in 424 to 423 B.C.

Thus the four kings of Persia after him were Artaxerxes (Artachverosh) II, III, and IV, and Darius III. (Artaxerxes V, who lasted for less than a year, probably didn't count.)

Then, we read ...

Daniel 11:3-4 (KJV)

3 And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will. 4 And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.

This is, of course, Alexander the Great of Macedonia, who reigned from 336 to 323 B.C. When he died, his son was yet unborn and left a vacancy that was taken over by his four generals, Antigonus, Cassander, Ptolemy, and Seleucus. We read this summary of the time of strife following Alexander's death:

Alexander left a huge empire at his death. His family and his generals jostled for control of this kingdom. When the dust settled, only two of his top officers remained alive. His other generals, his mother, his wife, his son, his illegitimate son, his sister, his half-sister, and his half-brother, were all dead. Of this group, only one general (Antipater) died of natural causes.

After much fighting and jockeying for position, Alexander's empire was divided into four major portions by 301 BCE: (1) Cassander ruled over Greece, (2) Lysimachus ruled in Asia Minor, (3) Seleucus I Nicator ruled in Babylon and Persia, and (4) Ptolemy I Soter ruled over the Holy Land and Egypt.

So, the "king of the south" in verse 5 is Ptolemy I "Soter" ("Savior"):

Daniel 11:5-6 (KJV)

5 And the king of the south shall be strong, and one of his princes; and he shall be strong above him, and have dominion; his dominion shall be a great dominion. 6 And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the king's daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he stand, nor his arm: but she shall be given up, and they that brought her, and he that begat her, and he that strengthened her in these times.

This is describing Berenice, the daughter of Ptolemy II:

Twenty years later (281 BCE), when Seleucus I killed Lysimachus in battle, only two dynasties remained in Alexander's old empire – the Seleucid kings in the north and the Ptolemaic kings in the south. ...

This is speaking from respect to the Land of Israel.

In 249 BCE, king of the South Ptolemy II Philadelphus sent his daughter Berenice to king of the North Antiochus II Theos. His plan was to stop the war that was raging (the Second Syrian War) and unite the two kingdoms through their marriage. Unfortunately, this plan had a flaw: Antiochus II was already married. However, because he knew his marriage to Ptolemy II's daughter would ensure peace and allow him to regain most of the Syrian possessions his father had lost to the king of the South, Antiochus II put away his wife Laodice and married Berenice. She persuaded him to reject Laodice's children and set up her own to succeed him on the throne.

However, after Ptolemy II died in 246 BCE, Antiochus II repudiated his marriage to Berenice and left her and their infant son to return to Laodice. Doubting his faithfulness, Laodice quickly murdered Antiochus II with poison. She then convinced her son, Seleucus II Callinicus, to kill both Berenice and her son. So, just as the prophecy said would happen, Ptolemy II king of the South, his daughter Berenice, and Antiochus II king of the North all lost in their struggle for power.

So, this takes us from Daniel's time in 424 B.C. to 246 B.C. in just 6 verses.

When we get to verses 21 through 31 we read about the prophecy of the antetype of the "beast," Antiochus IV "Epiphanes":

Antiochus IV's army desecrated the Temple and stopped the daily sacrifices. On the 15th of Kislev, in December 168 BCE, the Syrians built a pagan altar over the altar of burnt offering in the Temple and placed an image of Zeus Olympius upon it. Ten days later, on the 25th of Kislev, swine's flesh was offered on the altar to Zeus.

And now, the text has entered "the intertestamental times," and the history that is recorded in 1 & 2 Maccabees is left out of the canon. Just the same, this is what happened in 168 B.C. People lost their lives if they had in their possession a Torah scroll, had their infant circumcised, or refused to break the Sabbath for the Hellenizers who were put in charge by this Antiochus IV! This was when the Dreidel game was made! The children were forbidden to study Torah, but studied it anyway, and when the guards came to see what they were doing, they'd hide their Torah portions and take out 4-sided tops (dreidels), as though they were playing a gambling game with them!

So, from verses 1 to 6, the text covered 424 - 246 = 188 years.
From verses 7 to 31, the text covered 246 - 168 = 78 years.
WHY would the text suddenly JUMP more than 168 + 2023 - 1 = 2190 YEARS?!!

Sorry, but THAT is what doesn't fit with the text! This messenger goes into considerable detail with many various scenes down through the lives of the Antiochus's and the Ptolemies. Why would he suddenly "shift gears" into talking about the DISTANT FUTURE?! It doesn't follow, and it doesn't make sense!

No, what DOES make sense is that verses look more into the NEAR future:

What appears to have caused scholars to stray away from the correct understanding at this point of the prophecy is that they were unable to find a successor to Antiochus IV who matched the description of "the king." But two points must be kept in mind in order to properly understand this prophecy. (1) The subject is the Seleucid or Ptolemaic dynasties ONLY as these kingdoms affected Daniel's people. Therefore, the expression "the king," without any other description, could certainly mean one who was king over Israel.  (2) Secondly, the immediately preceding verses (Dan. 11:32-35) refer to the Jews and their situation during and after the Maccabean revolt. Based on the history of this period, we should look for the fulfillment of this verse by a "king" other than Antiochus IV or the Hasmonean rulers.

Both secular history and the New Testament record the acts of a king who appeared on the scene in Israel at the end of the Hasmonean period. As we shall see, this king fulfilled every prophetic description given in verses 36 through 39. That king was Herod the Great. In verse 36, the one spoken of is not identified as either the king of the North or the king of the South, but simply as "the king." Herod was seated as king on the throne of Israel when Messiah Yeshua was born. He is the called "the king" in the Gospels (Matt. 2:1, 3, 9; Luke 1:5). He, like Antiochus IV before him, was an antetype of the coming Antichrist, as his actions revealed. ...

Furthermore, WHY WOULD SUCH A WELL-DEFINED HISTORY SO NEAR THE FIRST ADVENT OF THE MESSIAH NOT INCLUDE HIM?!!! Can you see the STUPIDITY of such a position?!

No, the Messiah IS included in the text! He is found in Daniel 12:1!

Daniel 12:1 (KJV)

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Mikhaa'eel ("Michael") means "Who is like God!" And, He is listed as "the great prince," "haSar haGaadowl! " Who is this PRINCE?! We KNOW that the Messiah is called "HaSar Shalom" or "the Prince of Peace"; so why couldn't this refer to the Messiah??!  He is the One who "stands up for His people!" "Michael" may NOT be an "angel" (he's not called an "angel," btw); He may be a CHRISTOPHANY! 

Furthermore, in Daniel 9, GaVriy'eel ("Gabriel") already told us that the MESSIAH leaves the children of Yhudah in Jerusalem "DESOLATE" until all that is decided is poured upon these "DESOLATE" people! This matches with the "time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation!" NOW, the text has introduced the GAP!

Sorry,Michael is not the Messiah.Yeshua is the Messiah.Michael is an angel.

But if you insist that you do not want to watch then your not forced to.

So when you see the abomination of desolation (spoken of by the prophet Daniel)standing where it shouldn't,you can just say well,I didn't know that was going to happen.But the fact is,if you had paid attention,you would have known the exact day it would be placed in Jerusalem .

 

 

Mathew 24

¹⁵ When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

¹⁶ Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

¹⁷ Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

¹⁸ Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

¹⁹ And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

²⁰ But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

²¹ For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

²² And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

 

²³ Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

²⁴ For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

²⁵ Behold, I have told you before.

²⁶ Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

²⁷ For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

²⁸ For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

²⁹ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

 

³⁰ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

³¹ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

 

Look ma,no gaps.

[Retrobyter]

6 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Sorry,Michael is not the Messiah.Yeshua is the Messiah.Michael is an angel.

But if you insist that you do not want to watch then your not forced to.

So when you see the abomination of desolation (spoken of by the prophet Daniel)standing where it shouldn't,you can just say well,I didn't know that was going to happen.But the fact is,if you had paid attention,you would have known the exact day it would be placed in Jerusalem .

 

 

Mathew 24

¹⁵ When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

¹⁶ Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

¹⁷ Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

¹⁸ Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

¹⁹ And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

²⁰ But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

²¹ For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

²² And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

 

²³ Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

²⁴ For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

²⁵ Behold, I have told you before.

²⁶ Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

²⁷ For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

²⁸ For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

²⁹ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

 

³⁰ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

³¹ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

 

Look ma,no gaps.

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

"Look ma, no gaps" that YOU notice, you mean!

First, one must understand that we have transferred now from Daniel's vision to Matthew's account of Yeeshuwa`s life. The visitation in Daniel 10 and 11 is around 424 B.C. Yeeshuwa`s death and resurrection was about the year 30 A.D., knowing that His birth was before Herod the Great died and that He was about 30 years old when He started His offer of the Kingdom to the Jews and that His offer lasted for about 3.5 years. That's a difference of roughly 453 years. Yeeshuwa` is USING this prophecy to highlight what will happen in the near AND the distant future in His DISCIPLES' lives! NEVER FORGET THE TIME ELEMENT INVOLVED!

Look, we don't have the original words of Yeeshuwa` in His Olivet Discourse, which would have been in Hebrew or Aramaic. What we have are GREEK translations of His Discourse given to us in the Synoptic Gospels, Matthew 24-25, Mark 13, and Luke 21.

Here's the Greek of what we DO have ...

Matthew 24:15-31 (Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894)

15 Ὅταν οὖν ἴδητε τὸ βδέλυγμα τῆς ἐρημώσεως, τὸ ῥηθὲν διὰ Δανιὴλ τοῦ προφήτου, ἑστὼς ἐν τόπῳ ἁγίῳ, ὁ ἀναγινώσκων νοείτω, 16 τότε οἱ ἐν τῇ Ἰουδαίᾳ φευγέτωσαν ἐπί τὰ ὄρη· 17 ὁ ἐπὶ τοῦ δώματος μὴ καταβαινέτω ἆραι τι ἐκ τῆς οἰκίας αὐτοῦ· 18 καὶ ὁ ἐν τῷ ἀγρῷ μὴ ἐπιστρεψάτω ὀπίσω ἆραι τὰ ἱμάτια αὐτοῦ. 19 οὐαὶ δὲ ταῖς ἐν γαστρὶ ἐχούσαις καὶ ταῖς θηλαζούσαις ἐν ἐκείναις ταῖς ἡμέραις. 20 προσεύχεσθε δὲ ἵνα μὴ γένηται ἡ φυγὴ ὑμῶν χειμῶνος, μηδὲ ἐν σαββάτῳ. 21 ἔσται γὰρ τότε θλῖψις μεγάλη, οἵα οὐ γέγονεν ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς κόσμου ἕως τοῦ νῦν, οὐδ’ οὐ μὴ γένηται. 22 καὶ εἰ μὴ ἐκολοβώθησαν αἱ ἡμέραι ἐκεῖναι, οὐκ ἂν ἐσώθη πᾶσα σάρξ· διὰ δὲ τοὺς ἐκλεκτοὺς κολοβωθήσονται αἱ ἡμέραι ἐκεῖναι. 23 τότε ἐάν τις ὑμῖν εἴπῃ, Ἰδού, ὧδε ὁ Χριστός, ἤ ὧδε, μὴ πιστεύσητε. 24 ἐγερθήσονται γὰρ ψευδόχριστοι καὶ ψευδοπροφῆται, καὶ δώσουσι σημεῖα μεγάλα καὶ τέρατα, ὥστε πλανῆσαι, εἰ δυνατόν, καὶ τοὺς ἐκλεκτούς. 25 ἰδού, προείρηκα ὑμῖν. 26 ἐὰν οὖν εἴπωσιν ὑμῖν, Ἰδού, ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ ἐστί, μὴ ἐξέλθητε· Ἰδού, ἐν τοῖς ταμείοις, μὴ πιστεύσητε. 27 ὥσπερ γὰρ ἡ ἀστραπὴ ἐξέρχεται ἀπὸ ἀνατολῶν καὶ φαίνεται ἕως δυσμῶν, οὕτως ἔσται καὶ ἡ παρουσία τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου. 28 ὅπου γὰρ ἐὰν ᾖ τὸ πτῶμα, ἐκεῖ συναχθήσονται οἱ ἀετοί.

29 Εὐθέως δὲ μετὰ τὴν θλῖψιν τῶν ἡμερῶν ἐκείνων, ὁ ἥλιος σκοτισθήσεται, καὶ ἡ σελήνη οὐ δώσει τὸ φέγγος αὐτῆς, καὶ οἱ ἀστέρες πεσοῦνται ἀπὸ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ, καὶ αἱ δυνάμεις τῶν οὐρανῶν σαλευθήσονται. 30 καὶ τότε φανήσεται τὸ σημεῖον τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ· καὶ τότε κόψονται πᾶσαι αἱ φυλαὶ τῆς γῆς, καὶ ὄψονται τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐρχόμενον ἐπὶ τῶν νεφελῶν τοῦ οὐρανοῦ μετὰ δυνάμεως καὶ δόξης πολλῆς. 31 καὶ ἀποστελεῖ τοὺς ἀγγέλους αὐτοῦ μετὰ σάλπιγγος φωνῆς μεγάλης, καὶ ἐπισυνάξουσι τοὺς ἐκλεκτοὺς αὐτοῦ ἐκ τῶν τεσσάρων ἀνέμων, ἀπ’ ἄκρων οὐρανῶν ἕως ἄκρων αὐτῶν.

For anyone interested, here's the transliteration I use which uses "e" for epsilon, "ee" for eta, "o" for omicron, "oo" for omega, "f" for phi, "ps" for psi, "th" for theta, "ch" for chi, and "h" for rough breathing: (I also use red for the words of the Messiah, and blue for the words of anyone else.)

15 Hotan oun ideete to bdelugma tees ereemooseoos, to reethen dia Danieel tou profeetou, estoos en topoo hagioo, ho anaginooskoon noeitoo. 16 Tote hoi en tee Ioudaia feugetoosan epi ta oree; 17 ho epi tou doomatos mee katabainetoo arai ti ek tees oikias autou; 18 kai ho en too argoo mee epistrepsatoo opisoo arai ta himatia autou. 19 Ouai de tais en gastri echousais kai tais theelazousais en ekeinais tais heemerais. 20 Proseuchesthe de hina mee geneetai hee fugee humoon cheimoonos, meede en sabbatoo. 21 Estai gar tote thlipsis megalee, hoia ou gegonen ap' archees kosmou heoos tou nun, oud' ou mee geneetai. 22 Kai ei mee ekolobootheesan hai heemerai ekeinai, ouk an esoothee pasa sarx; dia de tous eklektous kolobootheesontai hai heemerai ekeinai. 23 Tote ean tis humin eipee, Idou, hoode ho Christos, ee hoode, mee pisteuseete. 24 Egertheesontai gar pseudochristoi kai pseudoprofeetai, kai doosousi seemeia megala kai terata, hooste planeesai, ei dunaton, kai tous eklektous. 25 Idou, proeireeka humin. 26 Ean oun eipoosin humin, Idou, en tee ereemoo esti, mee exeltheete; Idou, en tois tameiois, mee pisteuseete. 27 Hoosper gar hee astrapee exerchetai apo anatoloon kai fainetai heoos dusmoon, houtoos estai kai hee parousia tou Huiou tou anthroopou. 28 Hopou gar ean ee to ptooma, ekei sunachtheesontai hoi aetoi.

29 Eutheoos de meta teen thlipsin toon heemeroon ekeinoon, ho heelios skotistheesetai, kai hee seleenee ou doosei to feggos autees, kai hoi asteres pesountai apo tou ouranou, kai hai dunameis toon ouranoon saleutheesontai. 30 Kai tote faneesetai to seemeion tou Huiou tou anthroopou en too ouranoo; kai tote kopsontai pasai hai fulai tees gees, kai opsontai ton Huion tou anthroopou erchomenon epi toon nefeloon tou ouranou meta dunameoos kai doxees pollees. 31 Kai apostelei tous aggelous autou meta salpiggos foonees megalees, kai episunaxousi tous eklektous autou ek toon tessaroon anemoon, ap' akroon ouranoon heoos akroon autoon. 

Verbs that end with "-ete" or "-eete" or "-ethe" or "-eethe" are second-person, plural endings that are translated as "you ..."; and the words "humin" or "humoon" or "humeis" or "humas" are second-person, plural pronouns, translated as "you" or "ye."

So, when Yeeshuwa` was said to have used these words (in translation), He was talking DIRECTLY TO THE MEN SITTING RIGHT THERE WITH HIM ON THAT MOUNTAIN! Then, when He would look off into the future, the pronouns and references would be different and more general in nature. If you go back and look at the Greek of all three records of His words in this "Olivet Discourse," you will find that He follows a "sawtooth pattern": He will start in the NEAR future - that of His own disciples sitting right there - and then He will "drift" off into the DISTANT future. Then, He would often SNAP BACK to His disciples' present and NEAR future again, and then look off into the DISTANT future once again. The way that one can tell whether it was NEAR or DISTANT was in the use of the second-person, plural pronouns and endings. When He was using these pronouns and endings, He was looking into the NEAR future that would affect His students in front of Him. Then, He would look off into the DISTANT future that affects us all, even today!

Not everything that Yeeshuwa` said in the Olivet Discourse is still in OUR future today, and someday (perhaps, very soon), that will be fulfilled, as well! One MUST look at the history of events down through the years to see what has been fulfilled and what is YET to be fulfilled. There IS a difference!

[Desopixi Seilynam]

17 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Instead of waiting for Messiah to lead them into the promised land ,they followed what they thought was the next best thing.

... ....

Oh how the things of Esau are sought out, oh how his secret things brought up!..

...in the day that strangers... casts lots for Jerusalem,
even you were as one of them.

But you should not have gloated over your brother
in the day that he became a stranger.

You should not have entered into the gates of my people
in the day of their calamity....

Neither should you have stood in the crossroads (the checkpoints) to cut off
those of his that did escape, neither should you have made captive those of his
that did remain in the day of distress.

For the day of the Lord is near...
Deliverers shall come up on mount Zion, to judge the mount of Esau
and the kingdom shall be the Lords.

Obadiah 1:6-21

 

Whereas Edom(Esau) says, we are impoverished,
but let us return and build the desolate places,
Thus says the Lord, they may build, but I will throw down...
Malachi 1:3-4

Son of man, thy brethren, even thy relatives..
and all the house of Israel wholly,
are they unto whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem
has said; Get you far from the Lord, unto us
is this land given in possession.
Ezekiel 11:15

I will come near you to judgement,
and will be a swift witness against... false swearers...
and them that turn aside the stranger from his right.
Malachi 3:5

That say, stand over there by yourself, for I am holier than thou,
these cause My wrath to smoke, a fire that will burn all the day.
Isaiah 65:5

 

 

[Shilohsfoal]

5 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

"Look ma, no gaps" that YOU notice, you mean!

First, one must understand that we have transferred now from Daniel's vision to Matthew's account of Yeeshuwa`s life. The visitation in Daniel 10 and 11 is around 424 B.C. Yeeshuwa`s death and resurrection was about the year 30 A.D., knowing that His birth was before Herod the Great died and that He was about 30 years old when He started His offer of the Kingdom to the Jews and that His offer lasted for about 3.5 years. That's a difference of roughly 453 years. Yeeshuwa` is USING this prophecy to highlight what will happen in the near AND the distant future in His DISCIPLES' lives! NEVER FORGET THE TIME ELEMENT INVOLVED!

Look, we don't have the original words of Yeeshuwa` in His Olivet Discourse, which would have been in Hebrew or Aramaic. What we have are GREEK translations of His Discourse given to us in the Synoptic Gospels, Matthew 24-25, Mark 13, and Luke 21.

Here's the Greek of what we DO have ...

Matthew 24:15-31 (Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894)

15 Ὅταν οὖν ἴδητε τὸ βδέλυγμα τῆς ἐρημώσεως, τὸ ῥηθὲν διὰ Δανιὴλ τοῦ προφήτου, ἑστὼς ἐν τόπῳ ἁγίῳ, ὁ ἀναγινώσκων νοείτω, 16 τότε οἱ ἐν τῇ Ἰουδαίᾳ φευγέτωσαν ἐπί τὰ ὄρη· 17 ὁ ἐπὶ τοῦ δώματος μὴ καταβαινέτω ἆραι τι ἐκ τῆς οἰκίας αὐτοῦ· 18 καὶ ὁ ἐν τῷ ἀγρῷ μὴ ἐπιστρεψάτω ὀπίσω ἆραι τὰ ἱμάτια αὐτοῦ. 19 οὐαὶ δὲ ταῖς ἐν γαστρὶ ἐχούσαις καὶ ταῖς θηλαζούσαις ἐν ἐκείναις ταῖς ἡμέραις. 20 προσεύχεσθε δὲ ἵνα μὴ γένηται ἡ φυγὴ ὑμῶν χειμῶνος, μηδὲ ἐν σαββάτῳ. 21 ἔσται γὰρ τότε θλῖψις μεγάλη, οἵα οὐ γέγονεν ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς κόσμου ἕως τοῦ νῦν, οὐδ’ οὐ μὴ γένηται. 22 καὶ εἰ μὴ ἐκολοβώθησαν αἱ ἡμέραι ἐκεῖναι, οὐκ ἂν ἐσώθη πᾶσα σάρξ· διὰ δὲ τοὺς ἐκλεκτοὺς κολοβωθήσονται αἱ ἡμέραι ἐκεῖναι. 23 τότε ἐάν τις ὑμῖν εἴπῃ, Ἰδού, ὧδε ὁ Χριστός, ἤ ὧδε, μὴ πιστεύσητε. 24 ἐγερθήσονται γὰρ ψευδόχριστοι καὶ ψευδοπροφῆται, καὶ δώσουσι σημεῖα μεγάλα καὶ τέρατα, ὥστε πλανῆσαι, εἰ δυνατόν, καὶ τοὺς ἐκλεκτούς. 25 ἰδού, προείρηκα ὑμῖν. 26 ἐὰν οὖν εἴπωσιν ὑμῖν, Ἰδού, ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ ἐστί, μὴ ἐξέλθητε· Ἰδού, ἐν τοῖς ταμείοις, μὴ πιστεύσητε. 27 ὥσπερ γὰρ ἡ ἀστραπὴ ἐξέρχεται ἀπὸ ἀνατολῶν καὶ φαίνεται ἕως δυσμῶν, οὕτως ἔσται καὶ ἡ παρουσία τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου. 28 ὅπου γὰρ ἐὰν ᾖ τὸ πτῶμα, ἐκεῖ συναχθήσονται οἱ ἀετοί.

29 Εὐθέως δὲ μετὰ τὴν θλῖψιν τῶν ἡμερῶν ἐκείνων, ὁ ἥλιος σκοτισθήσεται, καὶ ἡ σελήνη οὐ δώσει τὸ φέγγος αὐτῆς, καὶ οἱ ἀστέρες πεσοῦνται ἀπὸ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ, καὶ αἱ δυνάμεις τῶν οὐρανῶν σαλευθήσονται. 30 καὶ τότε φανήσεται τὸ σημεῖον τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ· καὶ τότε κόψονται πᾶσαι αἱ φυλαὶ τῆς γῆς, καὶ ὄψονται τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐρχόμενον ἐπὶ τῶν νεφελῶν τοῦ οὐρανοῦ μετὰ δυνάμεως καὶ δόξης πολλῆς. 31 καὶ ἀποστελεῖ τοὺς ἀγγέλους αὐτοῦ μετὰ σάλπιγγος φωνῆς μεγάλης, καὶ ἐπισυνάξουσι τοὺς ἐκλεκτοὺς αὐτοῦ ἐκ τῶν τεσσάρων ἀνέμων, ἀπ’ ἄκρων οὐρανῶν ἕως ἄκρων αὐτῶν.

For anyone interested, here's the transliteration I use which uses "e" for epsilon, "ee" for eta, "o" for omicron, "oo" for omega, "f" for phi, "ps" for psi, "th" for theta, "ch" for chi, and "h" for rough breathing: (I also use red for the words of the Messiah, and blue for the words of anyone else.)

15 Hotan oun ideete to bdelugma tees ereemooseoos, to reethen dia Danieel tou profeetou, estoos en topoo hagioo, ho anaginooskoon noeitoo. 16 Tote hoi en tee Ioudaia feugetoosan epi ta oree; 17 ho epi tou doomatos mee katabainetoo arai ti ek tees oikias autou; 18 kai ho en too argoo mee epistrepsatoo opisoo arai ta himatia autou. 19 Ouai de tais en gastri echousais kai tais theelazousais en ekeinais tais heemerais. 20 Proseuchesthe de hina mee geneetai hee fugee humoon cheimoonos, meede en sabbatoo. 21 Estai gar tote thlipsis megalee, hoia ou gegonen ap' archees kosmou heoos tou nun, oud' ou mee geneetai. 22 Kai ei mee ekolobootheesan hai heemerai ekeinai, ouk an esoothee pasa sarx; dia de tous eklektous kolobootheesontai hai heemerai ekeinai. 23 Tote ean tis humin eipee, Idou, hoode ho Christos, ee hoode, mee pisteuseete. 24 Egertheesontai gar pseudochristoi kai pseudoprofeetai, kai doosousi seemeia megala kai terata, hooste planeesai, ei dunaton, kai tous eklektous. 25 Idou, proeireeka humin. 26 Ean oun eipoosin humin, Idou, en tee ereemoo esti, mee exeltheete; Idou, en tois tameiois, mee pisteuseete. 27 Hoosper gar hee astrapee exerchetai apo anatoloon kai fainetai heoos dusmoon, houtoos estai kai hee parousia tou Huiou tou anthroopou. 28 Hopou gar ean ee to ptooma, ekei sunachtheesontai hoi aetoi.

29 Eutheoos de meta teen thlipsin toon heemeroon ekeinoon, ho heelios skotistheesetai, kai hee seleenee ou doosei to feggos autees, kai hoi asteres pesountai apo tou ouranou, kai hai dunameis toon ouranoon saleutheesontai. 30 Kai tote faneesetai to seemeion tou Huiou tou anthroopou en too ouranoo; kai tote kopsontai pasai hai fulai tees gees, kai opsontai ton Huion tou anthroopou erchomenon epi toon nefeloon tou ouranou meta dunameoos kai doxees pollees. 31 Kai apostelei tous aggelous autou meta salpiggos foonees megalees, kai episunaxousi tous eklektous autou ek toon tessaroon anemoon, ap' akroon ouranoon heoos akroon autoon. 

Verbs that end with "-ete" or "-eete" or "-ethe" or "-eethe" are second-person, plural endings that are translated as "you ..."; and the words "humin" or "humoon" or "humeis" or "humas" are second-person, plural pronouns, translated as "you" or "ye."

So, when Yeeshuwa` was said to have used these words (in translation), He was talking DIRECTLY TO THE MEN SITTING RIGHT THERE WITH HIM ON THAT MOUNTAIN! Then, when He would look off into the future, the pronouns and references would be different and more general in nature. If you go back and look at the Greek of all three records of His words in this "Olivet Discourse," you will find that He follows a "sawtooth pattern": He will start in the NEAR future - that of His own disciples sitting right there - and then He will "drift" off into the DISTANT future. Then, He would often SNAP BACK to His disciples' present and NEAR future again, and then look off into the DISTANT future once again. The way that one can tell whether it was NEAR or DISTANT was in the use of the second-person, plural pronouns and endings. When He was using these pronouns and endings, He was looking into the NEAR future that would affect His students in front of Him. Then, He would look off into the DISTANT future that affects us all, even today!

Not everything that Yeeshuwa` said in the Olivet Discourse is still in OUR future today, and someday (perhaps, very soon), that will be fulfilled, as well! One MUST look at the history of events down through the years to see what has been fulfilled and what is YET to be fulfilled. There IS a difference!

The disciples asked for the sign of Jesus coming and he gave them the sign of his coming.

He said the abomination of desolation which Daniel shows takes place at the time of the end,is a sign of his coming.

It is the major sign of his coming.Jesus was also quoting Daniel when he said what would happen when the abomination of desolation is placed .Here is a quote from the book of Daniel.

Mathew 24

²¹ For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

This quote taken from the book of Daniel takes place the same day that those who sleep in the dust are raised.This is called the resurrection of the dead by most people.

 

Daniel 12:1-2

And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.

And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

 

 

Now you've made it sound as though you believe the resurrection is already past but these are signs of Jesus coming and these verses have not been fulfilled.

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

... ....

Oh how the things of Esau are sought out, oh how his secret things brought up!..

...in the day that strangers... casts lots for Jerusalem,
even you were as one of them.

But you should not have gloated over your brother
in the day that he became a stranger.

You should not have entered into the gates of my people
in the day of their calamity....

Neither should you have stood in the crossroads (the checkpoints) to cut off
those of his that did escape, neither should you have made captive those of his
that did remain in the day of distress.

For the day of the Lord is near...
Deliverers shall come up on mount Zion, to judge the mount of Esau
and the kingdom shall be the Lords.

Obadiah 1:6-21

 

Whereas Edom(Esau) says, we are impoverished,
but let us return and build the desolate places,
Thus says the Lord, they may build, but I will throw down...
Malachi 1:3-4

Son of man, thy brethren, even thy relatives..
and all the house of Israel wholly,
are they unto whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem
has said; Get you far from the Lord, unto us
is this land given in possession.
Ezekiel 11:15

I will come near you to judgement,
and will be a swift witness against... false swearers...
and them that turn aside the stranger from his right.
Malachi 3:5

That say, stand over there by yourself, for I am holier than thou,
these cause My wrath to smoke, a fire that will burn all the day.
Isaiah 65:5

 

 

Yea ,I expect all those who have followed the beast into the promised land to kill all them who follow Christ.And if the persecution hasn't already started,wait till Benjamin netanyahu passes legislation so that everyone in that kingdom recieves the mark of the beast.He says he is going to and now is subduing the supreme Court so that none can stop him.Weay never heard about the persecution though because he is also attempting to take away the freedom of the press.

But hey,they are getting what they've always wanted.

 

¹⁸ And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the Lord will not hear you in that day.

¹⁹ Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us;

²⁰ That we also may be like all the nations; and that our king may judge us, and go out before us, and fight our battles.

 

A beast that resembles the other beasts before it.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Shilohsfoal