Doubts

[Neighbor]

20 hours ago, Dave-regenerated said:

So, what is the truth here?  Are people that write their testimonies online about God setting them free from smoking, alcohol, drugs, simply just exaggerating by claiming God took those things away from them when in fact it was their own volition and will power that did it?  

 

Hi Dave-regenerated,

You are NOT alone, not alone in having a Damacus road experience, not alone in finding people ( Some)  do not want to hear of that experience.

Yes some things seem personal to one person alone, a removal of an addiction  cold turkey right at that Damascus road experience, while other addictions continue on as a serious issue, an ongoing fight.

As to demonic attacks, sure they happen,  to some Christians  and perhaps not to others. Perhaps some don't recognize attacks as they come as being  demonic.  Bad things do happen  that may not be demonic too. We are not in  but a fallen creation at this time. Our Lord has gone to prepare a place for us. Our Lord will return for us. In the meantime he has given us a comforter, the Holy Spirit to  keep evil from totally over running each of us.

Will each of us be perfected at his return? Don't see how myself. He has covered in His own blood soaked into earth the penalty of those imperfections those sins those addictions . It is his sacrifice to his father's glory. He is the Lord of our shame, my shame, or as Fernando Ortega sang his own prayer, his song,  titled Shame, ... it i sone of my very favorite songs for it shares of struggle, and  that others have their struggle too, same  as I do.  we all have one common plea an done hope certain- it all is finished, was taken care of at the cross, and that is we are told Jesus Loses not a one given him by his father. Romans 8:29-31.

"Though I am weak
Sometimes weary
In times of trial
I hide my face
In the balance
Judge me wholly
Please don't judge me
By my shame

In dark hours
Of confrontation
When words may fall
Too soon to unsay
Don't mistake them
For my true meaning
They are measures
Of my shame

I have tried to
Live life humbly
Not a coward
Not in vain
When my meekness
Overcomes me
Remember me
Not my shame
Not my shame"

 

Note;  That song has been  posted at Videos Christian Music today.

 

[Retrobyter]

15 hours ago, FJK said:

There's a saying that God helps those who help themselves, there's a reason for that saying:  You have to accept the answer God gives you and be willing to do your part when you pray for help.

Two boats and a helicopter, that sort of thing.

Shabbat shalom, FJK.

If he is new born into the family, he may not understand that reference to "two boats and a helicopter." You may need to tell him the parable first.

[Retrobyter]

20 hours ago, Dave-regenerated said:

I truly believe I have been born again.  My experience at that moment in time was so fantastic and mind blowing I hesitate to describe it to others for various reasons which I have learnt over time.  I have shared my experience of that event with some people who say they are Christian and a few of them have tried to disagree with me about my own experience!  There is nothing more hurtful and condescending than for a Christian to do that, whereas non-believers I wouldn't pay attention to.

Some people have suggested that my experience is not as important as the truth of the Word only as a way to disagree with me on something else I've related.  And while I agree experience is subordinate to scripture I do NOT agree that experience can be dismissed, especially the New Birth.

So having said all that, I am seriously having doubts now.  I know what happened to me, I fit all the criteria I have found in books and on the internet for a person that has been saved, and I know 100% for certain that God exists.  Yet, my life does not line up with any of it.  I cannot predict the future of the sanctification process in myself, but I fall short every day into sins that I do not see happening to other Christians upon salvation.  I have addictions I cannot get rid of.  

I see so many testimonies of people that have said when they were saved or they prayed for freedom from addictions, God took them away miraculously.  I see testimonies of people that claim to have had prayers answered for healing, and so on.  Yet, I really don't mean to sound arrogant or boastful, but the truth of the matter is that their descriptions of being born again pale in comparison to mine.  I literally had a massive supernatural Damascus Road type of thing happen to me.  

So, what is the truth here?  Are people that write their testimonies online about God setting them free from smoking, alcohol, drugs, simply just exaggerating by claiming God took those things away from them when in fact it was their own volition and will power that did it?  

It's been 9 years and counting since I was saved.  There has hardly been even 1 day where I haven't given in to these addictions.  I prayed endlessly, hours upon hours, days long for years to God to take them away, and He hasn't done it.  Yet am I to believe that such a long amount of time was for nothing and that there are supposed to be people being healed of cancers and paralysis and so on simply through one prayer at a church or even to themselves, instantly?  

I am supposed to believe that a person is righteous so that God answers their prayers, as James says, more or less; yet everybody that has the New Birth has a new nature along with the old Man, as Paul says, and somehow that persons prayers are answered?  Yet here I am toiling away in desperate straights about my addiction problems for over 9 years and nothing has happened?  I am supposed to believe that Scripture is a means of sanctification that happens through grace and faith and not works, and despite endless hours of reading the Bible now I am not progressing a single shred?

Something is wrong with this picture.  

In the Psalms, the Psalmist pleads with God to help and prevent them from sinning.  Yet, in the NT Epistles we are told that God does not tempt anybody to sin and that He always makes a way out from temptation due to the apparent reality that a person has enough power in themselves to overcome such.  Jesus said, "Lead us not into temptation".  I cannot square these two apparently contradictory things, nor can I understand why God has set millions of people free from addictions through miraculous means by prayer, and here I am languishing in dire straights for 9 years and absolutely nothing has changed.  

Since I do not get audio downloads or telephone calls from God telling me things, I have absolutely no way of knowing whether it is God's will that I am supposed to use my own will power to try to give up these addictions or whether I should continue to pray that somehow someday He will free will.  I just narrowly escaped having cancer and had to have a major operation at the Hospital, my physical health is absolutely deplorable, I am in constant physical and mental and emotional pain every single day without any let up, I am killing myself, and I don't understand why.  

And to top it all off, when I do get around to reading the Bible, I will experience demonic attacks.  When I don't read the Bible one day, the attacks go away temporarily.  This is a repeatable phenomena of my experience and as such is pretty scientifically robust.  

Shabbat shalom, Dave-regenerated.

It doesn't matter what others think of your experience when you were born again into God's family. It's YOUR experience! And, you should be proud of it and tell of it often. More importantly, you should be PROUD of how GOD stepped in and declared you to be "the righteousness of God" IN SPITE of your sin!

We are all imperfect people. That word "imperfect" doesn't mean "not completely righteous," although that may be a part; it means IMMATURE! And, being a new creation, one should EXPECT that to be your case!

Do you have anyone in your life who might be helping you, mentoring you, in your new walk with God?

[FJK]

15 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, FJK.

If he is new born into the family, he may not understand that reference to "two boats and a helicopter." You may need to tell him the parable first.

I'm a poor story teller so look for a better telling elsewhere, but let me just sort of abbreviate it.

A man is caught in a flood and evacuation is taking place.

As the waters rise a boat comes by as he is standing on his porch and tries to rescue him but he refuses saying he has prayed to God and God will rescue him.

The water continue to rise so he goes to the balcony on the second story and another boat comes by to rescue him but he again refuses saying he has prayed to God and God will perform a miracle and rescue him.

The waters continue to rise and he goes to his roof, a helicopter comes by to rescue him but he again refuses, waiting for a Miracle from God.

The water still rises and he drowns.

Arriving at the gates to heaven he cries out to God asking why he would let him drown in spite of his praying for rescue and God replies "What are you talking about, I sent two boats and a helicopter!".

The moral of this story is complex, but to me it means when we ask God for help we have to take it the way he gives it.   Prayers are always answered, but we have to accept the answer the way it is given which may not be the way we want.

AS I said, you can probably find much better and more entertaining renditions on the internet.

[Dave-regenerated]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, Dave-regenerated.

It doesn't matter what others think of your experience when you were born again into God's family. It's YOUR experience! And, you should be proud of it and tell of it often. More importantly, you should be PROUD of how GOD stepped in and declared you to be "the righteousness of God" IN SPITE of your sin!

We are all imperfect people. That word "imperfect" doesn't mean "not completely righteous," although that may be a part; it means IMMATURE! And, being a new creation, one should EXPECT that to be your case!

Do you have anyone in your life who might be helping you, mentoring you, in your new walk with God?

I was saved over 9 years ago, I don't think I am a baby Christian any more.  Yes I did speak to many Christians on Facebook when it first happened and I shared the details of my experience but eventually because of either indifference or negative feedback I chose not to share that experience except with people I feel I can trust.  And I hardly know anybody anyway, even online.  I don't understand how people can have 100s if not 1000s of "friends" on Facebook and despite my many posts in groups etc., nobody attempts to befriend me.  I only have about 9 friends there and most of them don't speak much anyway.  In real life it is worse - I only have 1 friend!  

I don't attend church for various different reasons, the main one being because I drink early in the evening.  If I wanted to go to church it would be one that is quite far from me and I just don't like the idea of going alone.  I'm an introvert by nature anyway.

As for mentors, they would be famous Christians I have seen on Youtube or who's books I have read.  I am a heavy reader, except when it comes to the Bible for some reason?  I've met some people on Facebook that have helped me.  

Regarding my experience, I once tried to share it with my Dad and because I have a mental illness as well (perhaps I should have mentioned that earlier) I don't think he was open enough to believe me.  The most frustrating thing for me is that I cannot get through to my parents about Christ and salvation.  Dad is like a skeptic, Mum is a lapsed Catholic into New Age things.  Every time I have tried to give her a book to read she doesn't read it, but she is happy to read novels.  Because I still live with my parents due to my illness since I was a late teenager, I am extremely attached to them and I don't want them to go to hell.  But I have tried everything now, for many years, and they just aren't responsive.

The demonic attacks are intense sometimes.  It even comes in the form of people harrassing me with car horns near my house, incredible as that may seem.  I know that is true because I have tested it countless times in various ways.  And then there is people behaving oddly outside when I venture out to the shop or whatever.  Sometimes very odd things occur, like people will cough when I walk past them, even if I am on the other side of the street.  And lastly, there is attacks while I am trying to sleep which comes in the form of images popping into my mind that are hideous and obviously demonically implanted.  A bit hard to describe but at the same time as the images there can also be unspoken words of a demonic nature.  This only happens if I read the Bible the previous day.  When I skip Bible reading they don't occur.  And interestingly, I wanted to put a cross around my neck to see what would happen with those events coming into my mind while I slept.  Guess what?  90% of it went away!  Demons fear the cross, so that makes sense.  You see, in the past I put on a cross necklace before and went to bed with it on and when I woke up it was dangling on part of the handles on the chest of drawers next to my bed.  I don't know how that happened.

[Marathoner]

15 hours ago, Dave-regenerated said:

Regarding my experience, I once tried to share it with my Dad and because I have a mental illness as well (perhaps I should have mentioned that earlier) I don't think he was open enough to believe me.

Don't be dismayed regarding the lack of belief in others, my friend. First, you're not the only one whose mind was blown by the Lord; secondly, others don't define truth to you: the Lord Himself does. Third and perhaps the most important of all, it's neither your occupation nor duty to convince others about the veracity of your experience. You have failed no one. 

I didn't dare breathe a word about what the Lord had done to another living soul for years, and to this day there is much I don't say (or write) for there are things that aren't needful for others to know. I'm assured that all things shall be revealed in the end but until that day comes, I remain silent. The Lord is not displeased with my silence for He did not command me to speak a word to anyone save for one, the man whom He sent me to over 30 years ago. My brother knows the depths of what I endured, and he agrees with my desire to remain silent. 

As for doubt, I struggled with it mightily and still do to this day a decade later. We neither see nor know all things, Dave-regenerated, and we are called upon to walk by faith (and not sight); but even to those who have seen and heard much, doubt remains something which is common to us all. In His kindness the Lord gave a memorial of the impossible to me, a reminder that regardless of doubt which comes upon us all, I may look upon that memorial and remember how Jesus Christ did the impossible. My right hand was broken on that day and after it healed, one of the knuckles on that hand was no longer visible. I see this and remember all that the Lord has done. 

You know the truth and that, my friend, is more than sufficient. 

[Retrobyter]

13 hours ago, Dave-regenerated said:

I was saved over 9 years ago, I don't think I am a baby Christian any more.  Yes I did speak to many Christians on Facebook when it first happened and I shared the details of my experience but eventually because of either indifference or negative feedback I chose not to share that experience except with people I feel I can trust.  And I hardly know anybody anyway, even online.  I don't understand how people can have 100s if not 1000s of "friends" on Facebook and despite my many posts in groups etc., nobody attempts to befriend me.  I only have about 9 friends there and most of them don't speak much anyway.  In real life it is worse - I only have 1 friend!  

Shalom, Dave-regenerated.

To that "1 friend," I hope you're referring to the Messiah Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus the Christ").

As far as Facebook "friends" are concerned, most are really "acquaintances." Most of the time, it is merely a "friend of a friend of a friend who happens to know you." Still, the Scriptures say,

Proverbs 18:24 (KJV)

24 A man that hath friends must shew himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother.

The second part of this verse is talking about a "bosom buddy," although many use it to describe Yeeshuwa` as that closest of friends.

I can relate for I am an introvert. These forums are the best way I've found to express myself to others, although I am trying to write a book or two. To this day, I only have ONE childhood friend who keeps in touch. The rest have grown apart, involved in their own circles of friendship wherever they have moved. (I'm the same way.) Some have already passed away. Even my own family members have spread out across the nation. I live in Florida, and one of my sisters lives in the state of Washington! I've seen her once in 23 years and that was last year when our father died! The time before that was back in 2000 when I had open heart surgery!

I've also had situations in my life that have isolated me from others. Sicknesses, surgeries, and such. Church people don't visit others any more, not like they used to do.

I was born again when I was 6 years old and baptized a month later; today, I am 65 and I'll be 66 in October, but I'm still learning new things about the Scriptures.

13 hours ago, Dave-regenerated said:

I don't attend church for various different reasons, the main one being because I drink early in the evening.  If I wanted to go to church it would be one that is quite far from me and I just don't like the idea of going alone.  I'm an introvert by nature anyway.

I also can relate to this. I'm basically caught between churches.

I grew up in independent Baptist Bible churches and used to live in the heart of Northern Baptist church organizations. While shallow in their beliefs, always worrying about church attendance, they were among the most staunch believers in the evangelical outreach in their communities. They generally KNEW what it meant to be born again, and understood entirely the need for the New Birth and the confidence in eternal security.

About ten years ago, I became aware of the Messianic Jews and started to attend a couple of congregations. I had grown deeper in my knowledge of God's Word, and was leaving the shallow thinking behind. I had also re-discovered my own Jewish roots; so, I was enjoying the more biblical approach to the teachings of the Messianic Jewish Synagogue I attended. I also LOVED the music they sang and DANCED to! I knew of Davidic dance, but I had never seen it done before! But, I think the song that finally convinced me the most was Robin Mark's song "Days of Elijah" sung by Paul Wilbur! My studies were leaning toward a more literal and realistic view of the Second Coming, and it fit perfectly with what I was learning!

However, Messianic Jews embrace Pentecostal beliefs about speaking in tongues, and other things I was taught to avoid while growing up in the independent Baptist environment. We had a Pentecostal Wesleyan church in our town that was constantly attempting to infiltrate our congregation with their beliefs, and it was always through the visiting ladies from their church! So, it's taken me some time to work through those bad memories, and to discover the truth about the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

There's a Scripture passage I've taken to heart about the matter:

1 Corinthians 14:20-25 (KJV)

20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written,

"With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me," saith the LORD. (Isaiah 28:11-12).

22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not (particularly, the children of Israel, especially the Jews): but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? 24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

and

1 Corinthians 1:22-24 (KJV)

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ (the Messiah) CRUCIFIED, unto the Jews a stumblingblock (a stone over which to trip), and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 BUT unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ (the Messiah) [is] the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Thus, tongues are a SIGN for the Jews to see, but wisdom in prophecy is the WISDOM that Gentiles need to see! The bottom line is that there is a time for BOTH, depending on the audience!

13 hours ago, Dave-regenerated said:

As for mentors, they would be famous Christians I have seen on Youtube or who's books I have read.  I am a heavy reader, except when it comes to the Bible for some reason?  I've met some people on Facebook that have helped me.  

...

I'm glad you have SOMEONE, but books are no real replacement for people in one's life. Books are poor substitutes for the personal touch of being able to speak with someone who has known the Lord longer than one has known Him.

Perhaps, I'll answer the rest soon.

[Marathoner]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

I can relate for I am an introvert.

I am as well. I've mentioned how, over the course of this life I have lived, I was stripped of everything except for the life in this body of flesh and blood and that was a fleeting thing, for I was close to death indeed. I cannot say that I *should* have died, brother, for we know better. We are here by the grace of our Lord alone. 

I lost everything: my family of flesh... whatever friends I had... money and possessions... a place to rest these bones... my strength... my health... the ability to speak and think... and in the end, the will to live. I was born into this world with afflictions, one of which is invariably fatal by the age of 40 (chronic granulomatous disease). I was afflicted with a type of muscular dystrophy that doesn't manifest until middle age and perhaps the most insidious of them all, a severe form of major depressive disorder that cannot be treated by medication nor therapy. The latter revealed itself not long after my 11th birthday. 

I witnessed unspeakable things in the house of my father and mother, so I'm well-acquainted with terror and fear. As I've said and written before, "The terror by night, and that fear which comes by day." Every year starting with my 11th on this earth, I attempted to end this life by my own hand. No matter what I tried, I emerged unscathed. I did not know the Lord, but I knew of Him; even in my ignorance, I knew that this was the work of God. I didn't understand!

I just wanted to die. The psychosis of the depressive cycle was such that I was battered by suicidal ideations and before the cycle ended in the Spring, I couldn't resist the impulse any longer. I kept this a secret and spoke to no one... who would believe me?

The Son of God. Not only did He know and see everything but the year before He revealed Himself to me, calling me out of this world to Him, He sent the most astonishing vision regarding what was to come in the future. It was that day not long after the term of my enlistment in the U.S. Army concluded, and I sat in a room with the muzzle of a revolver planted against my head. For close to two hours, I strained with all of my might to pull the trigger, but it was set in concrete. I couldn't budge it and when I was shaking with exhaustion, I cried out, "Why? Why won't you let me die?" Death was all I desired. I dreaded each and every day I opened my eyes in this world. 

The Lord sent this vision, and I won't go into the details regarding what I witnessed, but it was a vision of mountains I had never seen before. I saw the ridge line of these mountains shrouded in the darkness of a great wilderness and I despaired for I was so weak that I couldn't walk, let alone stand. I fell to the ground to die and that was when a great light dawned upon those mountains. The brilliance was greater than the sun and when this light rose, so did I. I stood up and felt strong once again; I said in wonder, "How can this be?"

Over 20 years later, I stood on the side of a long road in the high desert looking upon the ridge line of those same mountains. 

I am indeed an introvert, but the Lord has provided me with work which I might pour myself into serving others. As for the severe depression which defied treatment of any kind, it lost its power over me 10 years ago when that day promised by the Lord had come.  

Edited April 30, 2023 by Marathoner

[AnOrangeCat]

On 4/28/2023 at 10:47 AM, Dave-regenerated said:

So, what is the truth here?  Are people that write their testimonies online about God setting them free from smoking, alcohol, drugs, simply just exaggerating by claiming God took those things away from them when in fact it was their own volition and will power that did it?  

I don't doubt that some people have exaggerated in their testimonies for whatever reason, well meaning or not, but their own willpower? Nope. Whatever measure of will, self control, a good support network, and so on that we have, we have because it was given to us by God. It's like Jesus said in John 15:5. He's the vine, we're the branches, and without Him we can do nothing.

My own experience and observation regarding addiction has been that these things are a multifaceted war on all fronts, but people don't always fight them on all fronts or use sound methods. What works for one person may not work for another. I talked about this with an alcoholic friend recently and while an accountability partner is often helpful with her it would likely be counterproductive. The confession is stressful and she turns to alcohol partially because of stress relief. One thing seems to be universal, though. The easier it is to access any sin or addiction the more the person struggling is set up for failure. I do think it pays to analyze addictions. See why you turn to them, what triggers the urges, and where possible cut that off, but even then it can be a struggle. I'm personally pretty big on the psychological aspect and trying to replace old bad habits with new good ones, but like I said what works for one person isn't going to be effective for everyone.

In closing I'd ask you to consider Paul and his thorn in the flesh. He prayed repeatedly for it to be removed but it never was, and then he concluded that it served some purpose in his walk with God. I strongly believe we all have our own thorns, our own predispositions toward certain sins. We may well struggle with them for all our earthly lives but the struggle itself is meaningful.

[Tristen]

Regarding your "experience":

Don't let anyone take away or belittle your "experience" with God.

Nevertheless, we all go through seasons of growth where we feel spiritually dry. It is during these seasons that we have to learn to encourage ourselves, and trust what God says in His Word, rather than our feelings (or circumstances). Whilst it doesn't feel very good, it is a good thing, and part of the maturing process.

Ultimately, God's Word should be the foundation of our faith, since experiences and feelings are not always trustworthy.

It's a matter of you making a decision - 'I'm going to trust in my Savior, no matter how I feel. God loves me, and holds me in the palm of His hands. He is my God, and I am His child - and that is the end of the matter - feelings be damned'. Take a breath and choose to rest in faith. Refuse to give doubt any more of your time. Feelings are temporary, and will fluctuate, but God's love endures regardless of how we feel.

 

Regarding your struggle with addiction:

I have strategies that have worked for me in the past. I hope they can help you.

1 - Before and during the behavior, bring God's light into the darkness. Quote scriptures while in the act of your temptation. E.g. 'Thank you, Father, that I can do all things through Christ who is my strength. I am free - for whom the Son sets free is free indeed, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. Greater is He who is in me than He who is in the world'. etc. etc.

I learned this from the testimony of a preacher who overcame cigarette addiction by quoting scriptures like this between puffs.

NOTE: You will have resistance from your flesh, and the enemy will try to convince you that you are being hypocritical. In reality, you are bringing the power of God's Word into the situation. Darkness does not touch, nor does it defile, the light, but light overcomes darkness.

 

2 - After the behavior, go straight to God - immediately.

The tempter who tempted us, afterwards tries to convince us that we are unworthy to approach God (which we never were - except by the blood of Christ). But God says, "Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need" (Hebrews 4:16). After behaving poorly is a "time of need"; a time when we need to "obtain mercy and find grace". Therefore, go to God "boldly", without hesitation. Ask forgiveness. Receive His forgiveness. That means trusting Him when He says, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9). Ask for God's help the next time you are tempted (without making any promises) and let that be the end of the matter.

Do not waste any more time on guilt or wallowing in self-pity. He says you are forgiven - who are you to disagree? Are you suggesting that the blood of Jesus is insufficient for you? Therefore, stop wasting God's time, and start moving forward again into your destiny.

Now again NOTE, the flesh and the enemy will team up to condemn you as a hypocrite, and accuse you of trying to justify, or get-away-with, or give license to, the bad behaviors. But what you are really doing is honoring the grace purchased through the blood of our Savior, and refusing to waste more of God's time on what has already been dealt with.

 

I hope you get some ideas from above. God loves you. Don't let yourself get discouraged. You are Christ's - that means you've already won regarding the purpose of this life.