Hail Mary

[com7fy8]

On 5/2/2023 at 6:55 PM, Dennis1209 said:

I repeatedly hear, “Hail Mary, full of grace.”

⁸ For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: ⁹ Not of works, lest any man should boast. [emphasis mine]

We can take this in different ways. 

If grace saves a person, then one might argue that Mary needed grace so she was saved.

And if you say grace is undeserved, then Mary did not deserve the grace. 

But, then the arguing can continue. Jesus Himself is "full of grace and truth", we have in John 1:14.

Well, Jesus is not undeserving of our Father's favor, I would say. I now understand, that grace favors Jesus . . . how Jesus is . . . therefore changing us to become and to love like Jesus < favoring this . . . not really favoring us, but grace's action in us changes us away from how we are. Grace favors how we need to become pleasing to our Father, like Jesus is so pleasing.

And Mary is not called "full of grace and truth", but only "full of grace".

If she got "troubled" about seeing the angel, then perhaps this shows she was lacking - - maybe being favored, but not full of truth which could keep her from being "troubled". 

[phreSXicthaxlor]

The  Roman  Catholic  will  demand that    “  Jesus's  use of the   TITLE  ,     "Woman"     to describe His mother in John's Gospel correlates directly to the    “     T I T L E     “  Woman, in Gen. 3:15 and in Rev. 12.

fulfilling the prophecy in Gen. 3:15   -   offspring of the   Woman    Mary   as a    T I T L E       -  to the serpent head being crushed in Genesis.
They base this partly upon the fact that   Yahashua  did not refer to Mary  as   HIS  MOTHER  -  he insisted upon always calling her    a  TITLE    “  AS    WOMAN  “   

But when we look in the Genesis account  from the  NT  we find that this ideology centered upon  a  TITLE    “  AS    WOMAN  “   does not exist   
1Ti  2:14  And Adam was not deceived, but  “     THE   WOMAN  “  being deceived was in the transgression.
There is nothing here concerning an ideology centered upon  a  TITLE    “  AS    WOMAN  “   in fact this is the word that God calls for Eve continually

Gen 3:1  Now And he said unto the woman,        -            :2  And the woman said unto the serpent
Gen 3:4  And the serpent said unto the woman     -   :6  And when the woman saw that the tree was 
Gen_3:12  And the man said, The woman        -       :13  And the LORD God said unto the woman
Gen_3:15  I will put enmity between thee and the woman,      -   :16  Unto the woman he said
  
IN  FACT   -  Yahashua continually   -   is using the   TITLE    “  AS    WOMAN  “   to the strangers and foreigners and aliens and outsiders and the unwanted and needy women around him.

Mat 15:28  Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Mat  26:10  When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the    woman?    for she hath wrought a good work upon me.
Luk  13:12  Whom when Jesus saw, he called her unto him and said to her: Woman, thou art delivered from thy infirmity.

Yahashua  in  fact     is using the   TITLE    “  AS    WOMAN  “     for  an adulterous fornicating immoral woman.

YAHASHUA  HAD  NOT  ESTEEMED  AND  RESERVED  ANY  TITLE   SUCH     “  AS    WOMAN  “      he even gives this    TITLE     “  WOMAN  “  to  an adulterous fornicating  immoral woman who is guilty of adultery and caught red-handed.
   
Joh  8:10  Then Jesus lifting up himself, said to her:   “  WOMAN  “  Woman, where are they that accused thee? 

Neither  Yahashua  nor  the  Holy  Spirit  has no interested in preserving a special catholic tradition that gives a TITLE    “  AS    WOMAN  “    to  Mary   -  

Yahashua  used this term for women who he wished to distance himself from and  remove  the  personal  connection between them.    

 
THIS  IS  EXACTLY  WHY HE  USED  THE  TERM    “  WOMAN  “   ALWAYS  FOR  MARY  -  he had no interest in pretending that   Mary   was a part of his ministry, mission  and  relationship with God  

Mary was not involved in the life of Yahashua after he became an adult,  he lived his life in the desert, on the road and the countryside and in the hills and mountains and the wood.

If Mary was some great  Spiritual  Lightening  Rod  and  a  spiritual  outlet  or God’s  special  wall socket  or  God’s  extension  cord  -  Yahsahua would have been dragging  Mary around with him everywhere he went and would have been confiding in Mary for spiritual support and giving her the attention he gave to his disciples.

But instead, Mary was home,  having intimacy with her husband she had married and with her children she  had bore living her life and had little time for chasing after Yahashua  -  only to continually and repeatedly be ignored and pushed aside in order that his ministry and spiritual life could be fulfilled.

 

Edited June 11, 2023 by phreSXicthaxlor

[grahampaul]

On 6/4/2023 at 5:39 AM, farouk said:

Oh it is indeed relevant.

If I ask a living brother in Christ to pray for me, this is not the same as invoking a dead person to do the same.

totally agree. i mean,just how does one natter to those that sleep in Christ,wake them first? lol. sorry,beyond me.

[The_Patriot21]

Where I come from the hail Mary was what we did in the last 30 seconds of the basketball game and we're down by two and had absolutely nothing to lose.