Your closest friendnt Posted May 19, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,972 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,790 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 19, 2023 In Mathew 24 15-22 Jesus is giving a prediction of something that was foretold by Daniel and it was about to be fulfilled during the lives of the disciples. In v.15 Jesus addressing his disciples begins with " when you therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the Holy Place," (who ever reads let him understand). Jesus is telling what will happen first before happens the following in v.16 Then let them which are in Judea flee into the mountains and continues with v.17 and 18 and 19 19 And woe to them that are with child, and to them that nurse in those days! V.20 and v.21 The events from verse 16-22 cannot happened unless what Jesus said in verse 15 will happen first... * the task at hand is to look if the events in verses 16-22 have taken place and are the events that happen in 70 AD. Jesus also at the time when he was carrying his Cross on the way to Golgotha he said to the people who sympathized and felt sorry for him in v. 28 Jesus said: Daughters of Jerusalem do not weep for me ....Jesus made it personal for them...these things will happen in their time...about the destruction of Jerusalem..in 70 AD.. * the Destruction of Jerusalem follows the time when the Abomination of Desolation sits on the Holy place... This must happen after the veil of the Temple was torn Twain...and the Temple became Common...and the sacrifices were offered by Common Priests as the the Lamb of God Jesus Christ was slain and the Priests found themselves in their sins...and the Abomination of desolation took the place of the Lord in the Holy Place. *Luke 23:27-30 . 27 A large number of people followed him, including women who mourned and wailed for him. 28 Jesus turned and said to them, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep for yourselves and for your children. * 29 For the time will come when you will say, ‘Blessed are the childless women, the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!’ 30 Then “‘they will say to the mountains, “Fall on us!” and to the hills, “Cover us!”’[ Mathew 24: 15-22 15 When you therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoever reads, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which are in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take anything out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe to them that are with child, and to them that nurse in those days! 20 But you pray that your flight is not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened (Matthew 24:15-22). Mathew 24:15-24 NIV 15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. 22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time. And when you shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is near. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter into it (Luke 21:20,21). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydub Posted May 19, 2023 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 186 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 137 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/23/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted May 19, 2023 22 hours ago, Biblican said: The two witnesses are identified as candlesticks in Rev. 11:4. According to Rev. 1:20, candlesticks in Rev. are churches. There are two churches in Rev. 2 and 3 that receive no correction from the Lord, Smyrna and Philadelphia. The two witnesses represent that remnant and spiritual condition, the 144,000, that is ministering just before the rapture and before the tribulation. 4 They are “the two olive trees” and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.”[a] How often do we here let the bible translate the bible, yet concerning the two witnesses no one ever brings up the candlesticks and as you point out, we are told in rev 1 what/who they are. The same goes with the two olive trees. Who are the two olive trees, well Romans tells us romans 11 17Now if some branches have been broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others to share in the nourishment of the olive root, I think from this passage we can conclude that Israel is the olive tree and the gentiles are a wild olive tree, because the two witnesses are called the two candlesticks and two olive trees, I believe them to be all believers Jewish and gentile 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biblican Posted May 20, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.41 Reputation: 143 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/30/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 20, 2023 On 5/18/2023 at 7:42 PM, Jaydub said: 4 They are “the two olive trees” and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.”[a] How often do we here let the bible translate the bible, yet concerning the two witnesses no one ever brings up the candlesticks and as you point out, we are told in rev 1 what/who they are. The same goes with the two olive trees. Who are the two olive trees, well Romans tells us romans 11 17Now if some branches have been broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others to share in the nourishment of the olive root, I think from this passage we can conclude that Israel is the olive tree and the gentiles are a wild olive tree, because the two witnesses are called the two candlesticks and two olive trees, I believe them to be all believers Jewish and gentile Thank you. It's refreshing to find someone who can think and let the scriptures guide them and not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biblican Posted May 20, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.41 Reputation: 143 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/30/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 20, 2023 On 5/18/2023 at 1:44 PM, Your closest friendnt said: @Biblican This is what you posted on your initial post in bold (" Israel is also referred to as “Egypt,” a Gentile nation, which is a reproach upon the Jews’ own bigotry against Gentiles. God’s commandments to treat the “strangers,” the Gentiles, in their land as equals is blatantly ignored, (Leviticus 19:34) which is evident by the Jews’ brutal treatment of the Palestinians over the years.) Your statement in the first paragraph above is not from the Bible, anywhere in the Bible... Because it suggests that this happens at the time the Jews were in a Covenant with God, in the Covenant of Sinai. It suggests that the Lord the is still enforcing the terms of the Sinai Covenant upon the "Israelites" or the Jews.. When the Sinai Covenant ended with the beginning of the New Covenant... And the instructions in the book of Leviticus it was for the people who lived by the Sinai Covenant...whether it is God enforce or not.. And for that the people needed the Priesthood and the rituals performed in the Temple...it cannot faction without the Priesthood..and the Temple... And the "stranger" in Leviticus is referring to anyone who lives amongst them that the Law applies to them also when they are in their land because the land was considered Holy...and a stranger could not plea immunity to ofences under the Law...He had to abide by the Sabath and if offend the Sabath the punishment is the punishment described in the Law...if he commits sexual offenses the punishment for him is the same as the punishment upon an Israelite who would commit the same offense.. The stranger cannot worship other Gods while living amongst the people because this is forbidden to an Israelite. And he needs to be Circumcised and accepts the God of the Israelites and keep their RELIGIOUS CALENDAR. Today the state of Israel is not a religious state like Iran is but it has laws to protect all religions and the building of Houses of worship for all religions. And how strange it is that they do not have a Temple to do their worship themselves.. They are forbidden by their own Law to build a Temple a New Temple...or no one can stop them for building a Temple but they will have a Temple without the Ark and the Tablets and the Rod of Aaron...the ever buding rod of Aaron and the ever mana in the clay pot... And the golden altar and the Minora.... Aaron's buding rod..has bud into a new branch...someone else has taken the Bishops stick from Aaron.... The MANA, the Heavenly MANA the ever living MANA in the jar in the Lord's Ark it was a reminder that one day the Lord will do something, and it was given to him and to no one else to do something to make it happen that he will have children that they will be everlived and be together with him ..like the MANA in him will have Life...and the Minora they will be the Lord's Light in the world empowered by the oil of the Lord, the Holy Spirit. As he said to his disciples wait for the power from above... And the Lord will be their Law giver from within their heart. He will right his Laws specifically for every one in their hearts as they are progressing and mature...not everyone is in the same situation and in the same growth stage and they have not come from the same background...for this and other reasons as each one is able to do the Lord fashions a specific growth program taylor for the specifics needs to fit the specific needs of each one... And they have laws that protect the people even the sinners, they offenders of the Law...the state has given them rights to openly offend the Law and protects them who would other-wise had to be punished under the Law...even punishment with death...and they have Laws to punished everyone who takes the Law in his own hand and seek to punished those the Law protects... The State of Israel today they do not enforce the Law of Moses. And you cannot accused them for not doing so. Because they are the Nation of Israel by NAME ONLY. And not by a degree from God...It is their Nation and they do what they decide to do...they VOTE ...according to their Constitution...which it is their own...and is not given to Moses... God has a Nation and is looking for people to Joint his Nation to be included in the one who gives Life...not only because he had Life in himself but also he can give life and he can keep in the Life forever because he died for the forgiveness of their sins. I was quoting from Revelation 11:8 which says specifically - And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Jerusalem is called Sodom because she has opened her doors to welcome homosexuality. There is a gay pride parade in Jerusalem every year and Tel Aviv is the gay capital of the Middle East. This is one of the reasons He is going to let them go into another captivity before He returns (Zechariah 14:1,2). They are called Egypt because here God is calling them Gentiles as a reproach for their treatment and bigotry against the Gentiles. God's principles still apply, He did not remove His law, He removed justification by the law, but He still punishes when people act immorally or against His word. The principle of God requiring the Jews to love the Gentiles and abide with them is carried over to the time when Jesus has returned in Ezekiel 47:22. 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Your closest friendnt Posted May 20, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,972 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,790 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2023 (edited) I understand that you are quoting from revelation 11:18. But what does that have to do with Jesus and the fig tree.. That time the Jews were strict and Jerusalem was not what it is in Revelation 11:18. And the Covenant was still in effect...no New Covenant yet...the disciples did not want a new Covenant..they wanted to continue with what they had. Edited May 20, 2023 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biblican Posted May 20, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.41 Reputation: 143 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/30/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 20, 2023 On 5/18/2023 at 9:55 AM, Revelation Man said: If people are not called unto Prophecy, it is OK to dabble in it, to study it, etc. etc. But don't try and teach it to other people when it is not your calling my friend. Your post has just demonstrated to me that prophecy is not your calling. You've posted so many errors here I do not have the time to address them. If prophecy was your calling you would be able to understand prophetic symbolism which you have also demonstrated that you do not understand it. I don't dabble in prophecy, God gave me the gift of prophecy when I was baptized by the Holy Spirit. He taught me the book of Revelation and how I was to teach it. He showed me that the most important part of understanding the book is to grasp the principles it is teaching. Prophetic visons have to be revealed, we can't figure them out on our own, He has to show us like He did with John when He showed Him that churches are candlesticks and stars are angels. That is why the two witnesses are called candlesticks which is the clue to their identity which you have overlooked among other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biblican Posted May 20, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.41 Reputation: 143 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/30/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 20, 2023 On 5/18/2023 at 5:35 AM, bloom said: The 144,000 are Messianic Jews then right? Messianic Jews and Gentiles. In Rev. 7, the tribes that are listed are not the original twelve tribes, Dan is missing replaced by Manasseh. Manasseh is the half Gentile tribe from Joseph's union with a Gentile. As Joseph is a similitude of Jesus, we are being shown through the symbolism that the Gentiles have been grafted in so to speak and are included with the Jews. Dan was the only tribe that did not obtain its inheritance and the tribe's absence represents the "Jews who say they are Jews and are not" Rev. 2:9, who are the Jews who could not get their inheritance because the have rejected their Messiah Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted May 20, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,972 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,790 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2023 (edited) @Biblican the time Jesus told them about the fig tree the disciples did not understand what Jesus was telling them... And they did not understand what Jesus was telling them about the things to happen with the destruction of the Temple... Their mind was in another mode than Jesus mind.. This what they were telling him...look at the Temple how beautiful it is, how marvelous...and who knows what they were thinking when they said those things...they did not have the mind of Christ... The disciples did not believe what Jesus told them that it will acctually happened...they could not understand that Jesus will die.. They did not understand what Jesus was telling them about Jerusalem and the Temple, will happen in 70 AD..about the tribulation that took place at that time...they uterly destruction of Jerusalem...in their thoughts Jerusalem would be the center peace of the Messiah's reign...a sign of the Everlasting reign of the Messiah...Jesus Christ... In their beliefs those two things were together Everlasting...because the Messiah will reign from Jerusalem... They believe that Jesus will rule as a king and defeat the Romans and Jerusalem would be free... So that made it impossible for them to believe in the destruction of the temple by the Romans when Jesus would be the King and rule Jerusalem. Wondering what was said about "Babylon" has fallen and fallen into the sea if it was told about Jerusalem...Definitely they were in ignorance and thought that they were still worshiping their God after they had put Jesus to die on the Cross... To accept what Jesus said about the destruction of the Temple , it was that they had to accept that Jesus would be defeated. Or perhaps that Jesus was not the Messiah..or the Messiah has not come yet...this is why Jesus said that even some of the elect will be deceived...and fall away...because in their beliefs they had the dream that the Messiah will come and rule from Jerusalem...they could not see the Messiah ruling without Jerusalem the great....drenched in glory that surpasses the glory that Jerusalem ever had...many are still are quided by the same beliefs even today...and they try to prepare the prerequisites for the coming of the Messiah as they see him in their own mind...ruling from the Temple in Jerusalem..still hoping for the coming of the Messiah...they do not believe that the Messiah the Christ of God is also the Lamb of God, the slain Lamb of God..the Lamb of God who was slained to shed the blood for the new Covenant..for the forgiveness of the sins...even the sins of the nation of Israel. They do not believe that Esaiah 53 is about the Lamb of God the Messiah of God who is Jesus Christ... The Aithiopian Eunuch understand about Esaiah 53 and believe...but they do not...that's why they excuse the reason why the Messiah for them in their beliefs has not come yet ..because in their beliefs he is waiting for the Temple to be built first... Jesus was kind to his disciples and was waiting for them to die first as not to witness the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD... Edited May 21, 2023 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelation Man Posted May 20, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,159 Content Per Day: 1.42 Reputation: 567 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2023 2 hours ago, Biblican said: Your post has just demonstrated to me that prophecy is not your calling. You've posted so many errors here I do not have the time to address them. If prophecy was your calling you would be able to understand prophetic symbolism which you have also demonstrated that you do not understand it. I don't dabble in prophecy, God gave me the gift of prophecy when I was baptized by the Holy Spirit. He taught me the book of Revelation and how I was to teach it. He showed me that the most important part of understanding the book is to grasp the principles it is teaching. Prophetic visons have to be revealed, we can't figure them out on our own, He has to show us like He did with John when He showed Him that churches are candlesticks and stars are angels. That is why the two witnesses are called candlesticks which is the clue to their identity which you have overlooked among other things. I destroyed your whole thesis, that is why you did not address it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biblican Posted May 21, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.41 Reputation: 143 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/30/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 21, 2023 On 5/20/2023 at 1:32 AM, Revelation Man said: I destroyed your whole thesis, that is why you did not address it. I did not have time to address it, it had too many errors for me to address in the time I have on this shared computer. Your interpretations undermine the corrective principles that God has built into the prophetic symbolism which shows that most of them are being produced from your flesh and not revelation. If Israel comes to repentance before the tribulation then there is no need for her to go through the captivity (Zechariah 14) or receive the correction that God is showing her she needs in Rev. 11:8. The very fact that Israel has become a nation shows us that we are entering the time period where her existence triggers the tribulation. That fig tree has budded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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