The Nation of Israel - Sign of the Fig Tree

[Biblican]

On 5/25/2023 at 3:21 PM, Revelation Man said:

All time is tribulation, see John 16:33 Jesus stated this. The 70th week is Tribulation, God's Wrath starting in the middle of the week sees the greatest ever troubles known to mankind. The Seals only OPEN UP the Trumps which contain all of God's Wrath therein. The 7 Trumps ARE the 7 Thunders of Rev. 10, John was not allowed to tell everything he knew, only parts and only via encoded phrases and visions. John's book of Revelation was his Prophecy unto kings, peoples and nations. 

I have seen no Remnant spoken of in Rev. 9 or 11.

The 10 is simply the E.U. that's it. 

I again agree to disagree. God's wrath is the bowl judgments in 16 which are the previous plagues in rev. 8 coming into their fulness. Again this follows the template of Matthew 24, the beginning of sorrows/Rev.8, that we are in now, (the mountain that falls into the sea is probably the meteor that's supposed to hit us in 2029) the tribulation, the first resurrection and the time of wrath when "two are in the field" and God removes the wicked.

The seals don't open up the trumpets, they reveal the persecutors, the persecuted and their future avenging.

The seven thunders represent prophetic messages that are given to individuals for strategies in spiritual warfare. What John heard was for his ears alone and his personal instruction. 

The remnant is sealed for their protection in 7, the Philadelphians, that are promised to be kept from the hour and they are seen protected in Rev. 9:4, these are the sealed ones of Rev. 7 that cannot be affected by the demons that are being unleashed in chapter 9. They are the two candlestick/churches that are raptured  in 11 before the tribulation. If you take the two groups in Rev. 7 and transport them to 14 and 15, the 144,000 are safe in heaven and the other group in 15 has gone through the tribulation at the end of 14. That's how the Lord showed it to me and I will not budge.

You need to research illuminati bloodlines and how they relate to the kings of Europe. They are the 10 kings/toes of Daniel that direct the EU and will be the heads of the ten districts.

I do agree with you that the antichrist removes the sacrifices, the atonement of Jesus. Nobody gets it that the antichrist is anti-Christ and his goal is to destroy Christianity. That is why we see the beast empire shutting down evangelism illustrated by the death of the witnesses in 11 because Christianity  then will no  longer be an accepted faith. it will not conform to the beasts' new one world religion.

If you are happy with your interpretations that's fine. I don't have to agree with them. The most important thing we have to understand are the principles that the prophecies are showing us.

[Revelation Man]

12 hours ago, Biblican said:

I again agree to disagree. God's wrath is the bowl judgments in 16 which are the previous plagues in rev. 8 coming into their fulness.

No, the Vials simply FILL UP the Wrath of God(see Rev. 15:1 it says as much) or completes it. Who do you think brings forth the Rev. 8 Asteroid? It is not men nor Satan, it is God. The Seals are merely Jesus opening up the Sealed Scroll of Judgments, as he does so with each Seal, he prophesies what is about to befall mankind over the coming 42 months of His Wrath. 

Think of a closet door with 7 locks on it, with many birthday gifts inside you have told your friends about. You can open each lock and describe one of the gifts, but alas even as you open the 6th lock, none of your friends have yet to see any of the gifts, you are just FORETELLING them what they are going to soon see. But as you open the 7th lock there is now no reason to say anything, you simply open the closet door !! That is the Seven Seals to a tee, Jesus is opening up a Sealed Scroll of Judgments, and he's FORETELLING what the soon to come Wrath of God will bring. The first 5 Seals are all about the 42 month rule of the Anti-Christ, the 6th Seal is all about God's soon to come 42 months of God's Wrath, they both parallel because the Anti-Christ is not allowed to go forth conquering until the Asteroid (God's Wrath) hits. 

The Seals are Prophetic in nature only:

1.) The Anti-Christ will conquer over a 42 month period of time

2.) The A.C. will take away Peace/Bring Wars over his 42 months

3.) The Anti-Christs Wars bring 42 months of Famine

4.) The Anti-Christs 42 month rule of tyranny brings Sickness Death and the Grave (Hades).

5.) The Beast Martyrs the Gentiles who get saved in the 70th week

6.) God's Wrath falls on Mankind over a 42 month period of time

-------------------------------

NOTICE: Seal Number 7 is opened over in Rev. 8 AFTER the Five (5) million Jews have fled Judea in Rev. 7 (the 144,000 CODE). Thus the 7th Seal opens the Scroll of Judgments/God's Wrath, the reason there is SILENCE and nothing is said is because this saddens the Heavenly Hosts, just like it Repented God when He had to flood the earth. Billions of humans have to be judged and killed, they take no joy in this at all, thus the silence in heaven.

So, Seal #6 is simply Jesus prophesying what is about to befall mankind back on earth, watch how it matches the Trumps which brings the Judgments/Darkness, AND Joel 2:31 prophesies just like Seal #6 does, but its about the DOTL Trumpet Judgments to come.

Rev. 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake(Asteroid Impact); and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs(I think this is Satan being cast down to earth, angels = Stars), when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Now we see that Joel 2:30-31 is the exact same prophecy!

Joel 2:30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke(Think, Trees burning).

31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come. (BEFORE means in the FACE of or in the Presence of God's Wrath)

NOW LETS LOOK at the actual Prophesied Event !! These verses here envelope ALL of God's Wrath. Because the Three Woes are shown as coming soon, with what? The 5th, 6th and 7th Trumps, which are the Three Woes and the 3rd Woe is ALL 7 Vials !!

Rev. 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood(Asteroid breaking apart casting down sulfur balls which burn), and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up(USA/Canada & South America), and all green grass was burnt up.

8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea(Asteroid makes IMPACT or as John said its as a Great Earthquake): and the third part of the sea became blood(The Pacific Ocean has 1/3 of this worlds water);

9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed (The Pacific Ocean).

10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; 11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood(Bitter/Poison): and the third part of the waters became wormwood(Poisonous FALLOUT); and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened,(This FULFILLS Joel 2:31 AND Seal #6 also) and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound! {{{ So, the last Three Trumps yet to sound ARE the Three Woes !! Thus the 1st and 2nd Woe in Rev. 9 are the 5th and 6th Trumps, and thus the 7th Trump is the 3rd Woe and the 3rd Woe is ALL 7 Vials, thus the 7 Vials emit from the 7th Trump, thus ALL of God's Wrath emits from the 7 Trumps or 7 Thunders, that is why in Rev. 11 we see the 3rd Woe comes QUICKLY, then are told the 7th Trump sounds and BRINGS VICTORY, but that victory comes via the 7th Vial which is Jesus showing up to defeat the Anti-Christ and his armies !! }}}

So, as this Asteroid flies through our atmosphere it starts disintegrating, fire balls or sulfur balls shoot out and they will not stop burning until they burn out or hit water, these are what burned up Sodom & Gomorrah. So, via the First Trump we see that the FIRE COMES IN FIRST, and that is very, very scientific, that is what a big Science guy told his friend who was writing about Apophis heading our way. He said I am not a believer, but you guys look at Rev. 8 all wrong, its ONE EVENT, in Four Phases !! So, the Asteroid breaks apart, but its too big to break apart completely, so we get an IMPACT. Thus Trump #2 is that Impact, and thus John described it as a Great Earthquake, well YEA !!  Of course it will cause the earth to shake. 

Trump #3 is obvious also, the FALLOUT from the impact will poison the Fresh Waters in the New World (the 1/3 Area), but not in the Old World. Wormwood means Bitter or Poisonous.  And then finally we see the Fourth Trump which MATCHES Joel 2:31 and the 6th Seal to a tee. The Sun and Moon goes dark, and with all of the Fires burning on earth, the smoke filters out the sun by 1/3, and no doubt the Moon is of course going to have a very Red Hue to it !! (Blood Moon) The Vial Judgments emit from the 7th Trump. 

12 hours ago, Biblican said:

Again this follows the template of Matthew 24, the beginning of sorrows/Rev.8, that we are in now, (the mountain that falls into the sea is probably the meteor that's supposed to hit us in 2029) the tribulation, the first resurrection and the time of wrath when "two are in the field" and God removes the wicked.

Again, the Matt. 24 Sorrows has nothing to do with the Rev. 8 events, its sad people can not grasp these things because their brains have been trained in another fashion(I know, I thought this for 30 years myself). Also, Rev. 8 happens in the exact middle of the 70th week, and that can only start after the Pre Trib Rapture. The Rapture has to happen at least 3.5 years before the Middle of the 70th week. Its simple math.

12 hours ago, Biblican said:

The seals don't open up the trumpets, they reveal the persecutors, the persecuted and their future avenging.

 

I explain the Seals above in vivid detail. They simply open the Sealed Scroll of Judgments. It is just like a Closet with 7 locks on it.

12 hours ago, Biblican said:

The seven thunders represent prophetic messages that are given to individuals for strategies in spiritual warfare. What John heard was for his ears alone and his personal instruction. 

 

It is simply the 7 Trumps, when the 7 Thunders (Trumps) sound time will be no more [as we have known it] In other words Jesus will be in charge from here on out. Why is it Sweet & Bitter? Because it will take Judgment to get to the point where all of those who chose Jesus can live with the Lord forever more, that is sweet, but the reason it is also bitter is because billions of John's fellow human being are about to be judged and killed. The book of Revelation is not in Chronological Order, at all.

12 hours ago, Biblican said:

The remnant is sealed for their protection in 7, the Philadelphians, that are promised to be kept from the hour and they are seen protected in Rev. 9:4, these are the sealed ones of Rev. 7 that cannot be affected by the demons that are being unleashed in chapter 9. They are the two candlestick/churches that are raptured  in 11 before the tribulation. If you take the two groups in Rev. 7 and transport them to 14 and 15, the 144,000 are safe in heaven and the other group in 15 has gone through the tribulation at the end of 14. That's how the Lord showed it to me and I will not budge.

The Church is in Heaven, the Remnant Church (Rev. 12:17) is on earth, they are Gentiles who get saved after the Pre Trib Rapture. The 144,000 are simply the Jews repenting, they are actually 3.5-5 million people, both male and females. They are Protected in the Petra/Bozrah area by God Himself.

12 hours ago, Biblican said:

You need to research illuminati bloodlines and how they relate to the kings of Europe. They are the 10 kings/toes of Daniel that direct the EU and will be the heads of the ten districts.

 

Don't fall for the head-fakes, no matter what we call them, they are of Satan. The 10 however simply means COMPLETE Europe Reunited, nothing more, nothing less. 10 = COMPLETION !!

12 hours ago, Biblican said:

I do agree with you that the antichrist removes the sacrifices, the atonement of Jesus. Nobody gets it that the antichrist is anti-Christ and his goal is to destroy Christianity. That is why we see the beast empire shutting down evangelism illustrated by the death of the witnesses in 11 because Christianity  then will no  longer be an accepted faith. it will not conform to the beasts' new one world religion.

Well, he causes it, the False Prophet (Jewish High Priest like unto Jason under Antiochus) is the one that puts out he edict. 

Edited May 27, 2023 by Revelation Man

[Biblican]

On 5/26/2023 at 11:24 PM, Revelation Man said:

No, the Vials simply FILL UP the Wrath of God(see Rev. 15:1 it says as much) or completes it. Who do you think brings forth the Rev. 8 Asteroid? It is not men nor Satan, it is God. The Seals are merely Jesus opening up the Sealed Scroll of Judgments, as he does so with each Seal, he prophesies what is about to befall mankind over the coming 42 months of His Wrath. 

Think of a closet door with 7 locks on it, with many birthday gifts inside you have told your friends about. You can open each lock and describe one of the gifts, but alas even as you open the 6th lock, none of your friends have yet to see any of the gifts, you are just FORETELLING them what they are going to soon see. But as you open the 7th lock there is now no reason to say anything, you simply open the closet door !! That is the Seven Seals to a tee, Jesus is opening up a Sealed Scroll of Judgments, and he's FORETELLING what the soon to come Wrath of God will bring. The first 5 Seals are all about the 42 month rule of the Anti-Christ, the 6th Seal is all about God's soon to come 42 months of God's Wrath, they both parallel because the Anti-Christ is not allowed to go forth conquering until the Asteroid (God's Wrath) hits. 

The Seals are Prophetic in nature only:

1.) The Anti-Christ will conquer over a 42 month period of time

2.) The A.C. will take away Peace/Bring Wars over his 42 months

3.) The Anti-Christs Wars bring 42 months of Famine

4.) The Anti-Christs 42 month rule of tyranny brings Sickness Death and the Grave (Hades).

5.) The Beast Martyrs the Gentiles who get saved in the 70th week

6.) God's Wrath falls on Mankind over a 42 month period of time

-------------------------------

NOTICE: Seal Number 7 is opened over in Rev. 8 AFTER the Five (5) million Jews have fled Judea in Rev. 7 (the 144,000 CODE). Thus the 7th Seal opens the Scroll of Judgments/God's Wrath, the reason there is SILENCE and nothing is said is because this saddens the Heavenly Hosts, just like it Repented God when He had to flood the earth. Billions of humans have to be judged and killed, they take no joy in this at all, thus the silence in heaven.

So, Seal #6 is simply Jesus prophesying what is about to befall mankind back on earth, watch how it matches the Trumps which brings the Judgments/Darkness, AND Joel 2:31 prophesies just like Seal #6 does, but its about the DOTL Trumpet Judgments to come.

Rev. 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake(Asteroid Impact); and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs(I think this is Satan being cast down to earth, angels = Stars), when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Now we see that Joel 2:30-31 is the exact same prophecy!

Joel 2:30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke(Think, Trees burning).

31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come. (BEFORE means in the FACE of or in the Presence of God's Wrath)

NOW LETS LOOK at the actual Prophesied Event !! These verses here envelope ALL of God's Wrath. Because the Three Woes are shown as coming soon, with what? The 5th, 6th and 7th Trumps, which are the Three Woes and the 3rd Woe is ALL 7 Vials !!

Rev. 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood(Asteroid breaking apart casting down sulfur balls which burn), and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up(USA/Canada & South America), and all green grass was burnt up.

8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea(Asteroid makes IMPACT or as John said its as a Great Earthquake): and the third part of the sea became blood(The Pacific Ocean has 1/3 of this worlds water);

9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed (The Pacific Ocean).

10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; 11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood(Bitter/Poison): and the third part of the waters became wormwood(Poisonous FALLOUT); and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened,(This FULFILLS Joel 2:31 AND Seal #6 also) and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound! {{{ So, the last Three Trumps yet to sound ARE the Three Woes !! Thus the 1st and 2nd Woe in Rev. 9 are the 5th and 6th Trumps, and thus the 7th Trump is the 3rd Woe and the 3rd Woe is ALL 7 Vials, thus the 7 Vials emit from the 7th Trump, thus ALL of God's Wrath emits from the 7 Trumps or 7 Thunders, that is why in Rev. 11 we see the 3rd Woe comes QUICKLY, then are told the 7th Trump sounds and BRINGS VICTORY, but that victory comes via the 7th Vial which is Jesus showing up to defeat the Anti-Christ and his armies !! }}}

So, as this Asteroid flies through our atmosphere it starts disintegrating, fire balls or sulfur balls shoot out and they will not stop burning until they burn out or hit water, these are what burned up Sodom & Gomorrah. So, via the First Trump we see that the FIRE COMES IN FIRST, and that is very, very scientific, that is what a big Science guy told his friend who was writing about Apophis heading our way. He said I am not a believer, but you guys look at Rev. 8 all wrong, its ONE EVENT, in Four Phases !! So, the Asteroid breaks apart, but its too big to break apart completely, so we get an IMPACT. Thus Trump #2 is that Impact, and thus John described it as a Great Earthquake, well YEA !!  Of course it will cause the earth to shake. 

Trump #3 is obvious also, the FALLOUT from the impact will poison the Fresh Waters in the New World (the 1/3 Area), but not in the Old World. Wormwood means Bitter or Poisonous.  And then finally we see the Fourth Trump which MATCHES Joel 2:31 and the 6th Seal to a tee. The Sun and Moon goes dark, and with all of the Fires burning on earth, the smoke filters out the sun by 1/3, and no doubt the Moon is of course going to have a very Red Hue to it !! (Blood Moon) The Vial Judgments emit from the 7th Trump. 

Again, the Matt. 24 Sorrows has nothing to do with the Rev. 8 events, its sad people can not grasp these things because their brains have been trained in another fashion(I know, I thought this for 30 years myself). Also, Rev. 8 happens in the exact middle of the 70th week, and that can only start after the Pre Trib Rapture. The Rapture has to happen at least 3.5 years before the Middle of the 70th week. Its simple math.

I explain the Seals above in vivid detail. They simply open the Sealed Scroll of Judgments. It is just like a Closet with 7 locks on it.

It is simply the 7 Trumps, when the 7 Thunders (Trumps) sound time will be no more [as we have known it] In other words Jesus will be in charge from here on out. Why is it Sweet & Bitter? Because it will take Judgment to get to the point where all of those who chose Jesus can live with the Lord forever more, that is sweet, but the reason it is also bitter is because billions of John's fellow human being are about to be judged and killed. The book of Revelation is not in Chronological Order, at all.

The Church is in Heaven, the Remnant Church (Rev. 12:17) is on earth, they are Gentiles who get saved after the Pre Trib Rapture. The 144,000 are simply the Jews repenting, they are actually 3.5-5 million people, both male and females. They are Protected in the Petra/Bozrah area by God Himself.

Don't fall for the head-fakes, no matter what we call them, they are of Satan. The 10 however simply means COMPLETE Europe Reunited, nothing more, nothing less. 10 = COMPLETION !!

Well, he causes it, the False Prophet (Jewish High Priest like unto Jason under Antiochus) is the one that puts out he edict. 

Again, I will have to agree to disagree. I don't have time to keep going over the same points. All I can say is you spent too much time trying to figure things out on your own instead of letting God show you.

[JasperWalls11]

On 5/16/2023 at 1:45 PM, Biblican said:

This all prompts us to ask a couple of questions. Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD because the people rejected the Messiah Jesus. Why would God return them when they still refused to accept Jesus as their Messiah?
     Secondly, after the captivity, God returned them to their land as a religious nation. When He returns and gathers them after the second captivity, He also establishes a religious nation. Then if God established the modern nation of Israel, why is it a secular nation?

 

I think that God answers that question in Ezek. 36: 16-24.  In that passage, God recalls His people's rebellion and His scattering of them among the nations.   Yet, in verse 21, God says that he had concern for His Name.  In vv.  21-24 God says that for the sake of His Name, He is restoring Israel to their land.  God's motivation is to protect His integrity.  He is faithful to Israel on account of the sanctity of His Name.

I believe that people have created an artificial standard that basically states that the prophesied restoration of Israel cannot happen until the entire nation accepts the Messiah.  But in Ezekiel 36: 16-24, we see Israel being restored to the Land in a state of unbelief followed by a spiritual restoration.  God's reason for doing this is NOT because Israel deserves it, but because God does not want His Name reproached among the nations as not be faithful to His promises.  God made promises to Israel that have yet to be fulfilled, but I believe will be fulfilled in the Millennium. I am thinking of the promises of Deut. 28: 1-14. 

God's restoration of Israel is proof of His faithfulness. If God doesn't fulfill all of His promises to Israel, how can we trust Him? How can I know that He will fulfill all of His promises concerning salvation if I can find instances where God made promises, but then changed His mind.  Would that not call His faithfulness into question.  

I am not a Zionist or anything close to it.  I look at Israel through the lens of prophecy, though.  I see the modern state of Israel as a direct fulfillment of God's Word and as proof that we can trust the Word of God.

Edited May 29, 2023 by JasperWalls11

[FJK]

2 hours ago, JasperWalls11 said:

God's restoration of Israel is proof of His faithfulness. If God doesn't fulfill all of His promises to Israel, how can we trust Him?

That's a good point.  God never changes his mind, never goes back on his promises.  He is the same yesterday as he is today and as he is tomorrow.

[JasperWalls11]

49 minutes ago, FJK said:

That's a good point.  God never changes his mind, never goes back on his promises.  He is the same yesterday as he is today and as he is tomorrow.

Amen!  Fulfilled prophecy always reminds us of his faithfulness and why we can trust an unchanging, almighty God!

[Biblican]

8 hours ago, JasperWalls11 said:

I think that God answers that question in Ezek. 36: 16-24.  In that passage, God recalls His people's rebellion and His scattering of them among the nations.   Yet, in verse 21, God says that he had concern for His Name.  In vv.  21-24 God says that for the sake of His Name, He is restoring Israel to their land.  God's motivation is to protect His integrity.  He is faithful to Israel on account of the sanctity of His Name.

I believe that people have created an artificial standard that basically states that the prophesied restoration of Israel cannot happen until the entire nation accepts the Messiah.  But in Ezekiel 36: 16-24, we see Israel being restored to the Land in a state of unbelief followed by a spiritual restoration.  God's reason for doing this is NOT because Israel deserves it, but because God does not want His Name reproached among the nations as not be faithful to His promises.  God made promises to Israel that have yet to be fulfilled, but I believe will be fulfilled in the Millennium. I am thinking of the promises of Deut. 28: 1-14. 

God's restoration of Israel is proof of His faithfulness. If God doesn't fulfill all of His promises to Israel, how can we trust Him? How can I know that He will fulfill all of His promises concerning salvation if I can find instances where God made promises, but then changed His mind.  Would that not call His faithfulness into question.  

I am not a Zionist or anything close to it.  I look at Israel through the lens of prophecy, though.  I see the modern state of Israel as a direct fulfillment of God's Word and as proof that we can trust the Word of God.

The reference in Ezekiel is referring to God restoring them to the land after the Babylonian captivity. Israel is in her land prior to the second captivity but this is man's engineering which God permitted for His purposes. As you said, Israel will come to faith after the second captivity when Jesus returns and "They will look upon Me whom they have pierced." Zechariah 12:10.

[farouk]

5 hours ago, JasperWalls11 said:

Amen!  Fulfilled prophecy always reminds us of his faithfulness and why we can trust an unchanging, almighty God!

This is as a general statement is immensely relevant and true, indeed.....Lam. 3.23; 'Great is Thy faithfulness'.

[farouk]

8 minutes ago, Biblican said:

The reference in Ezekiel is referring to God restoring them to the land after the Babylonian captivity. Israel is in her land prior to the second captivity but this is man's engineering which God permitted for His purposes. As you said, Israel will come to faith after the second captivity when Jesus returns and "They will look upon Me whom they have pierced." Zechariah 12:10.

@Biblican While the faithfulness of God is to all generations, yet the background of the people in view in the OT is indeed Israel; personally, in the OT, I don't see the church - a revealed mystery in the NT - at all.

[Biblican]

1 minute ago, farouk said:

@Biblican While the faithfulness of God is to all generations, yet the background of the people in view in the OT is indeed Israel; personally, in the OT, I don't see the church - a revealed mystery in the NT - at all.

In the Old Testament there are lots of scriptures showing the Gentiles coming to the Messiah who are His church.  The church is people.