The Revelation of the Latter Days: The New Jerusalem and The Rapture before the end of year 2028

[seeking the lost]

2 hours ago, The Light said:

I have moved nothing. I understand what I am reading. Instead of making statements like this, you would be better served to study to show thyself approved, a workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

You seem to find things that cannot be there.  The text of Rev 20 must be handled with integrity.  

Rev. 20: 4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

How many resurrections come before the first resurrection?  The first resurrection is clearly at the end of the tribulation and the beginning of the thousand years.  Those of the first resurrection are not going up, they are being raised to reign on the earth.  The content of this resurrection is specified and must not be added to.  The last day resurrection is described as the rest of the dead.  This is when the dead in Christ that do not fit the category of the first resurrection are raised.  Let the text stand.

[Revelation Man]

On 6/9/2023 at 4:37 PM, seeking the lost said:

The primary text is Matthew 13 with the parable of the wheat and the tares.  This states clearly that the tares are gathered out first and burned.  I recognize the book of Revelation as the teaching of Jesus recorded by John.  Consider Rev. 14: 

The Harvest of the Earth

You are correct but also in error. YES...the Wheat (Israel) does grow unto the very end along with the TARES (wicked world) which is seen in Rev. 14 as the Grape Harvest which is placed into the Wine-press of God's Wrath and KILLED or Bundled in to the grave awaiting the Second Resurrection where the wicked are burned in hellfire, so yes, they are killed, the Righteous who are still alive are gathered together, the Martyrs of the 70th week are ONLY raised and judged at Rev. 20:4.

Meanwhile The Wheat or Israel fled unto the Petra/Bozrah area, they are known in CODE as the 144,000 virgins, but are really just the 3.5-5 million Jews who flee Judea, thus the Wheat are gathered into the Fathers barn, and they REMAINED on earth until the very end with the TARES (Grapes). But what you think you are proving, (no Pre Trib Rapture) you do not prove. We the Church are the BARLEY Harvest, which not only comes in first, but can be Harvested and SIFTED without being CRUSHED beforehand!

Wheat has to be crushed. GET THIS, the name Tribulation comes from a Greek name for a Machine (TRIBULUM) which crushed Wheat, in order to Harvest and sift it, Barley was much cheaper because it can be Harvested without being crushed !! Now let me show you why I call Rev. 14 the The Harvest Chapter. We see All Three Harvests over a 7 year period, but in order to do so we need a FLASHBACK. 

The Wheat are Harvested at the VERY END with the Tares or Wicked Grapes, but in a FLASHBACK to the Pre Trib Rapture we see Jesus Harvesting the Church from upon a cloud. 

Rev. 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand (3.5-5 Million Jews who repent but who are really in Petra/Bozrah area), having his Father's name written in their foreheads(Israel is The Fathers Bride, the Church is Jesus' Bride, Israel are The WHEAT).

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins(All people under the Blood are VIRGINS see the 10 Virgin Brides). These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth(meaning Israel rules with Jesus from Jerusalem). These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Seven Year FLASHBACK: Barley Harvest (Church)

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

{{{ So, Jesus, PRE TRIB, Raptures the Church, but in a Harvest Chapter where all three Harvests must be shown, and two are at the very end, the only way to do this is in a FLASHBACK, we understand flashbacks in movies but not in the book of Revelation it would seem. }}}

Wicked Grapes/TARES Harvest. 

Finally, we see the Wicked Grapes or TARES who grow to the very end with the Wheat (Israel) and are then bound (killed) in the grave in order to be burned at a later date (2nd Resurrection). 

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

So, the Wicked are killed at the SAME TIME as the Whet are Gathered, in essence, at the very end. BUT........Not before the Church is Raptured Pre Trib. We are the Barley Harvest, we do not need to be CRUSHED in order to be Harvested, Israel does, they NEED the 70th week Tribulation in order to repent. We the Church are ready to go, at least 5 of the 10 Virgin Brides are ready.

Amen, come Lord come.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Revelation Man

[The Light]

3 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

You seem to find things that cannot be there.  The text of Rev 20 must be handled with integrity.  

Rev. 20: 4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

How many resurrections come before the first resurrection?  The first resurrection is clearly at the end of the tribulation and the beginning of the thousand years.  Those of the first resurrection are not going up, they are being raised to reign on the earth.  The content of this resurrection is specified and must not be added to.  The last day resurrection is described as the rest of the dead.  This is when the dead in Christ that do not fit the category of the first resurrection are raised.  Let the text stand.

The first resurrection is the resurrection of the righteous. The second resurrection is the resurrection of the unrighteous.

Edited June 13, 2023 by The Light

[The Light]

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 

Meanwhile The Wheat or Israel fled unto the Petra/Bozrah area, they are known in CODE as the 144,000 virgins, but are really just the 3.5-5 million Jews who flee Judea,

There is no code. The 144,000 are first fruits of the second harvest, the fruit harvest.

The 144,000 are redeemed from the earth and are in heaven. They are the first fruits of the harvest of the 12 tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman, Israel.

So there is no code about the 144,000 fleeing to petra. The 144,000 are in heaven as first fruits.

Revelation 14

And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

So according to the Word of God, the 144,000 are redeemed from the earth and are in heaven. Therefore they cannot represent 3.5 million Jews in Petra.

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 

thus the Wheat are gathered into the Fathers barn, and they REMAINED on earth until the very end with the TARES (Grapes). But what you think you are proving, (no Pre Trib Rapture) you do not prove. We the Church are the BARLEY Harvest, which not only comes in first, but can be Harvested and SIFTED without being CRUSHED beforehand!

There are two harvests. The summer grain harvest and the fall fruit harvest. The grain harvest is divided into the barley harvest and wheat harvest. The dead in Christ is the barley harvest. It happens first.

1 Thes 4

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

After the barley harvest, Christ will return for the alive that remained.

1 Thes 4

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

When Christ returns for the alive that remain, He will bring the dead in Christ with Him.

1 Thes 4

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Wheat has to be crushed. GET THIS, the name Tribulation comes from a Greek name for a Machine (TRIBULUM) which crushed Wheat, in order to Harvest and sift it, Barley was much cheaper because it can be Harvested without being crushed !!

The barley harvest is the dead in Christ. They are already dead so no crushing needs to take place. You get what you get. The alive Church, the wheat harvest, is still in tribulation until He returns.

 

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 

Now let me show you why I call Rev. 14 the The Harvest Chapter. We see All Three Harvests over a 7 year period, but in order to do so we need a FLASHBACK. 

The Wheat are Harvested at the VERY END with the Tares or Wicked Grapes, but in a FLASHBACK to the Pre Trib Rapture we see Jesus Harvesting the Church from upon a cloud. 

We do not see all three harvests in Revelation 14. The barley and wheat are already in heaven before the harvest of Revelation 14. The harvest of Revelation 14 occurs at the 6th seal. It is the gathering from heaven and earth that you see in Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13

Mark 13 

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

When Jesus returns for the fall fruit harvest He brings the dead in Christ and those that were alive, which makeup the Church, with Him. Where the body is the eagles are gathered.

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Seven Year FLASHBACK: Barley Harvest (Church)

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

This is not a flashback. It is the fall fruit harvest that occurs at the 6th seal, immediately after the tribulation. After this harvest, unbelievers are cast into the wrath of God.

This harvest occurs in the twinkling of an eye. The dead and alive are changed at the same time. This harvest occurs at the last trump. The grain harvest occurs at the first trump, at the trump of God or voice of God. The Lord comes for the Church when it's like the days of Noah. Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood. The Lord comes for the seed of the woman, the twelve tribes across the earth when it's like the days of Lot. The very day Lot left Sodom destruction came.

The tribulation is over at the 6th seal and then the 1-year wrath of God begins.

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

{{{ So, Jesus, PRE TRIB, Raptures the Church, but in a Harvest Chapter where all three Harvests must be shown, and two are at the very end, the only way to do this is in a FLASHBACK, we understand flashbacks in movies but not in the book of Revelation it would seem. }}}

Wicked Grapes/TARES Harvest. 

Finally, we see the Wicked Grapes or TARES who grow to the very end with the Wheat (Israel) and are then bound (killed) in the grave in order to be burned at a later date (2nd Resurrection). 

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

So, the Wicked are killed at the SAME TIME as the Whet are Gathered, in essence, at the very end. BUT........Not before the Church is Raptured Pre Trib. We are the Barley Harvest, we do not need to be CRUSHED in order to be Harvested, Israel does, they NEED the 70th week Tribulation in order to repent. We the Church are ready to go, at least 5 of the 10 Virgin Brides are ready.

Amen, come Lord come.

Grapes are harvested in the fall. Wheat is harvested in the summer. When the alive believers are caught up, and the wheat harvest is complete, what will the Jews say?

Jeremiah 8

20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

The Jews will realize that they have missed the harvest. Part of Israel, the seed of the woman, will have it's eyes opened.

Romans 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

The reason that there are 144,000 first fruits is because there will be a second harvest. That means a second rapture. The fig tree has two harvests.

Only the nation of Israel, those that flee to a place of protection, and unbelivers will be on earth when the wrath of God occurs.

The tribulation is over at the 6th seal with the second harvest. Tribulation is not the wrath of God.

Edited June 13, 2023 by The Light

[seeking the lost]

59 minutes ago, The Light said:

The first resurrection is the resurrection of the righteous. The second resurrection is the resurrection of the unrighteous.

So are you willing to nullify the word to support your views?

[seeking the lost]

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You are correct but also in error. YES...the Wheat (Israel) does grow unto the very end along with the TARES (wicked world) which is seen in Rev. 14 as the Grape Harvest which is placed into the Wine-press of God's Wrath and KILLED or Bundled in to the grave awaiting the Second Resurrection where the wicked are burned in hellfire, so yes, they are killed, the Righteous who are still alive are gathered together, the Martyrs of the 70th week are ONLY raised and judged at Rev. 20:4.

Meanwhile The Wheat or Israel fled unto the Petra/Bozrah area, they are known in CODE as the 144,000 virgins, but are really just the 3.5-5 million Jews who flee Judea, thus the Wheat are gathered into the Fathers barn, and they REMAINED on earth until the very end with the TARES (Grapes). But what you think you are proving, (no Pre Trib Rapture) you do not prove. We the Church are the BARLEY Harvest, which not only comes in first, but can be Harvested and SIFTED without being CRUSHED beforehand!

Wheat has to be crushed. GET THIS, the name Tribulation comes from a Greek name for a Machine (TRIBULUM) which crushed Wheat, in order to Harvest and sift it, Barley was much cheaper because it can be Harvested without being crushed !! Now let me show you why I call Rev. 14 the The Harvest Chapter. We see All Three Harvests over a 7 year period, but in order to do so we need a FLASHBACK. 

The Wheat are Harvested at the VERY END with the Tares or Wicked Grapes, but in a FLASHBACK to the Pre Trib Rapture we see Jesus Harvesting the Church from upon a cloud. 

Rev. 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand (3.5-5 Million Jews who repent but who are really in Petra/Bozrah area), having his Father's name written in their foreheads(Israel is The Fathers Bride, the Church is Jesus' Bride, Israel are The WHEAT).

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins(All people under the Blood are VIRGINS see the 10 Virgin Brides). These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth(meaning Israel rules with Jesus from Jerusalem). These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Seven Year FLASHBACK: Barley Harvest (Church)

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

{{{ So, Jesus, PRE TRIB, Raptures the Church, but in a Harvest Chapter where all three Harvests must be shown, and two are at the very end, the only way to do this is in a FLASHBACK, we understand flashbacks in movies but not in the book of Revelation it would seem. }}}

Wicked Grapes/TARES Harvest. 

Finally, we see the Wicked Grapes or TARES who grow to the very end with the Wheat (Israel) and are then bound (killed) in the grave in order to be burned at a later date (2nd Resurrection). 

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

So, the Wicked are killed at the SAME TIME as the Whet are Gathered, in essence, at the very end. BUT........Not before the Church is Raptured Pre Trib. We are the Barley Harvest, we do not need to be CRUSHED in order to be Harvested, Israel does, they NEED the 70th week Tribulation in order to repent. We the Church are ready to go, at least 5 of the 10 Virgin Brides are ready.

Amen, come Lord come.

This is way too much manipulation for me to understand.  A straight read would be on the day of vindication Jesus wipes out the tares.  The tribulation is shortened for the sake of the elect.  The millennium begins with the elect that have survived the tribulation.  The elect are joined by the martyrs that are raised to reign.

Isaiah 63: 

God's Judgment on the Nations

1Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.

2Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?

3I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.

4For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.

5And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.

6And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth.

Malachi 4: 

The Day of the LORD
(Zephaniah 1:7–18; 1 Thessalonians 5:1–11; 2 Peter 3:8–13)

1“For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace, when all the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble; the day is coming when I will set them ablaze,” says the LORD of Hosts. “Not a root or branch will be left to them.”

2“But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings, and you will go out and leap like calves from the stall. 3Then you will trample the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day I am preparing,” says the LORD of Hosts.

The wicked are taken away the righteous shine in the kingdom.  They tread on the ashes of the wicked.

[Revelation Man]

25 minutes ago, The Light said:

There is no code. The 144,000 are first fruits of the second harvest, the fruit harvest.

 

The 144,000 are ALL Israel who repents, why is this so hard to grasp brother? Just because you first learned something the wrong way (as I did also) doesn't mean you have to try and defy logic to keep it as such, when it is clearly not. 

You can grasp the 10 Virgins = the Complete Church but you refuse to accept the obvious, that 10 x 12 = Completeness x Fulness which thus is used in two ways, each tribe has 12,000 which is 10 x 12 and then when you times (x) each of the tribes 12,000 by 12 we get 144,000, a perfect number mind you. And just like the Church they are all Virgins, that should be your BIGGESRT CLUE, they are Virgins by Jesus' blood, they are MALE because God called them first, the Church is shown as Female Brides.

Also, the 144,000 are shown JUST BEFORE God's Wrath falls in Rev. 8, so Rev. 7 is them Fleeing Judea at the 1290. The Seals DO NOTHING, they are merely Jesus taking of the 7 Seals that bind the Judgment Scrolls, why do you think John wept, the Seals have to be broken before Judgment and Justice can come forth. 

34 minutes ago, The Light said:

The 144,000 are redeemed from the earth and are in heaven. They are the first fruits of the harvest of the 12 tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman, Israel.

 

No, why would they need PROTECTION from the Earth, Sea and Tree Judgments? Why? Because they are still on this earth!! Of curse, so let me break it down. Its what I do.

Rev. 7:1 And after these things(THINK NOW...I just got a huge clue from the Lord, AFTER the 6 Seals are OPENED up but BEFORE the 7th Seal is OPENED up...The 1290 to the 1260 is THESE EVENTS) I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth,(Holding back the Judgments that are coming to earth) that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God:(3.5-5 Million Jews REPENT or Atone and are sealed like we are, by the Holy Spirit/Jesus' blood) and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. (So, do not allow JUDGMENT to fall (Apophis Asteroid in Rev. 8) until those 3.5-5 million Jews repent or atone just before the DOTL as Zechariah 13:8-9 says will happen JUST BEFORE Zech. 14:1 (DOTL)

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

This is a CODE just like The Woman in Rev. 12 is a CODE for ALL Israel who repents. These are facts, they ain't gonna change. The SEED of the Women is Jesus read Gal 3:16 carefully, it tells you this, thus the SEED (Jesus) of the Woman's has a REMANT in those gentiles who get saved AFTER the Pre Trib Rapture. 

49 minutes ago, The Light said:

So there is no code about the 144,000 fleeing to petra. The 144,000 are in heaven as first fruits.

 

The Barley has a FIRST FRUITS, and so does the Grapes as does The Wheat (Israel). Did you not realize this brother? Thus, the Jews/Israel are the Wheat that grows until the VERY END with the Tares, that is also when Israeli Saints of old get raised, as Daniel was clearly told in Dan. 12:1-2 THINK !! The Anti-Christ dies in Dan. 11:45 then in the very next verse Daniel is told these times oof troubles will bring a Resurrection of his peoples and that he would stand in his lot at the very end of time. You have conflated everything brother. TIMELINES are key, until you grasp the importance of the 1260 these deep truths will always escape you. They are the First-fruits of the Father, they are not the Church.

54 minutes ago, The Light said:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

This is what confuses you, this is PROSE, you do understand that our prayers go before THE THRONE right now right? Watch this.

Rev. 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

Also, if you read that portion in context in Rev. 14 it says the Angels and Harpers in Heaven leaned a new song that only the 144,000 could learn. This is prose, only the Jewish people can understand what they denied for 2000 years is 100 percent truth, that is the NEW SONG, in my opinion. They discover Jesus died for them, and that he is their brother/Lord and that they will be reigning with him via the Kingdom Age for 1000 years, no Gentiles will get to do that as humans, the Martyrs of Rev. 20:4 will rule with Christ for 1000 years but with Glorious bodies. The rest of the Church seems to go back to heaven.

1 hour ago, The Light said:

So according to the Word of God, the 144,000 are redeemed from the earth and are in heaven. Therefore they cannot represent 3.5 million Jews in Petra.

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

That is you misreading it. Clearly they NEED PROTECTION from the coming Wrath of God as Rev. 7 says.

1 hour ago, The Light said:

There are two harvests. The summer grain harvest and the fall fruit harvest. The grain harvest is divided into the barley harvest and wheat harvest. The dead in Christ is the barley harvest. It happens first.

There were Three Harvest Celebrated, the Barley, the Wheat and the Grape Harvest Festivals. Jesus used these THREE HARVESTS to teach us what is coming at the very end of time. The Barley comes first and need not to be CRUSHED, you agree the Church is READY NOW right? The Wheat has to be CRUSHED in order to be Sifted and thus Harvested, and the Grapes are clearly shown to be placed in the Winepress of God's Wrath.

The Dead in Christ and those of us STILL ALIVE are raised at the exact same time, a BLINK of an Eye is not a difference of TIME, look again, we all meet Jesus in the Sky (Both the Dead and Alive) and go to be with the Lord at the exact same time.

1 hour ago, The Light said:

The barley harvest is the dead in Christ. They are already dead so no crushing needs to take place. You get what you get. The alive Church, the wheat harvest, is still in tribulation until He returns.

 

No, the Barley are the Church, the Wheat is Israel, they will not repent until they have been  CRUSHED by the Tribulation. These are well know factoids brother, when does Israel repent/ The 70th week, when does the Church repent? Pre 70th week.

1 hour ago, The Light said:

We do not see all three harvests in Revelation 14. The barley and wheat are already in heaven before the harvest of Revelation 14. The harvest of Revelation 14 occurs at the 6th seal. It is the gathering from heaven and earth that you see in Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13

The Wheat ARE NOT in Heaven, look at Dan. 12:1-2, the Angels and Man in Linen (Jesus) clearly tells Daniel he will be raise at the VERY END, they are already married to the Father, why do they need to go to Heaven? We the Church are Jesus' Bride, not the 144,000 they have THE FATHERS name in their foreheads !!

The 6th Seal is only Jesus FORETELLING what the Fourth Trump brings to pass, well really what all 7 Trumps will bring, the DOTL. 

1 hour ago, The Light said:

This is not a flashback. It is the fall fruit harvest that occurs at the 6th seal, immediately after the tribulation. After this harvest, unbelievers are cast into the wrath of God.

 

It is the Pre Trib FLASHBACK.

1 hour ago, The Light said:

Grapes are harvested in the fall. Wheat is harvested in the summer. When the alive believers are caught up, and the wheat harvest is complete, what will the Jews say?

 

The TIMING is not relevant via the Three Harvests per se. BUT if you understand that Apophis hits on April 13, 2029, thus ad 1260 days to that, you will have a Fall Returns of the Lord, just like you have a Fall coming of the Lord fir the Pre Trib Rapture.

 

[The Light]

1 hour ago, seeking the lost said:

So are you willing to nullify the word to support your views?

Uh, um, errr, ah, ee ooo wwwwhat?

No sir. I'm willing to rightly divide the Word of Truth. 

Here. See if you can rightly divide this verse. Why do not all of them that that sleep in the ground awake?

Daniel 12

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

[Revelation Man]

47 minutes ago, seeking the lost said:

This is way too much manipulation for me to understand.  A straight read would be on the day of vindication Jesus wipes out the tares. 

Well, that is a truth, but we have to understand why he bundles them to be burned at a later time. (The 2nd Resurrection which happens a 1000 years later). I understand it seems hard to grasp, but to me it is not, I have been called unto Prophecy for 38 plus years now. When you get a vision as a 2-3 year old Christian and you are running with 2 kids, from evil people, and hide behind a bush by a house, and then a loud BOOMING VOICE from the Heavens says "The Man of Sin is Here" you understand you calling, and then I saw Jimmy Swaggart falling from grace in a vision, and a week or two later he fell. I saw him preaching in a HUGE Auditorium, to maybe 5-10 people, I was there. So, God gave me a TRUE VISION, of Swaggart so I would understand my former vision was TRUE ALSO !! I never doubted it after that. So, I have known for 35 plus years that the Anti-Christ is alive on this earth as we speak, and has been here for awhile !!

 

55 minutes ago, seeking the lost said:

 

By the way I do nit manipulate, I am just able to put it together.

49 minutes ago, seeking the lost said:

The tribulation is shortened for the sake of the elect.

This is how people go down wrong paths and rabbit holes.

So, what Jesus is saying is that he will be sent back after 7 years in full after the Pre Trib Rapture of the Church or after 3.5 years of the Greatest Ever Troubles on tis earth. He WILL NOT cut the 1260 day rule of the Beast short, or the 1260 days of Great Troubles short, what Jesus is saying is that his SECOND COMING cuts these troubles short (from the Anti-Christs natural destruction, if he was allowed to rule as The Beast for more than 1260 days). So, Jesus kills the Anti-Christ right? So he CUTS the TROUBLES short, but the Beast still rules 1260m days and God's Wrath still lasts for 42 months. So, this is WRONG THINK brother.

1 hour ago, seeking the lost said:

The millennium begins with the elect that have survived the tribulation.  The elect are joined by the martyrs that are raised to reign.

Well, yes, but the Church was already Raptured Pre Trib. The Elect here is Israel, the Martyrs are the Gentiles who repent AFTER the Pre Trib Rapture. The Remnant in Rev. 17:12 is the Gentile Church.

1 hour ago, seeking the lost said:

The wicked are taken away the righteous shine in the kingdom.  They tread on the ashes of the wicked.

The Wicked are killed over the 3.5 years that the DOTL lasts. The Anti-Christ Martyrs [Gentile] Saints for 3.5 years over this same time. The Church is Raptured Pre Trib.

 

God Bless

[The Light]

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The 144,000 are ALL Israel who repents, why is this so hard to grasp brother? Just because you first learned something the wrong way (as I did also) doesn't mean you have to try and defy logic to keep it as such, when it is clearly not. 

I can't figure out why you create a problem that you feel the need to solve when there is no problem, brother. Why not just accept what is written and believe that the 144,000 are in heaven, just like the Word says. John went to a lot of trouble to list where each 12,000 so that makes no sense. What really makes no sense is that the 144,000 are redeemed from the earth and can't be in Petra

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Also, the 144,000 are shown JUST BEFORE God's Wrath falls in Rev. 8, so Rev. 7 is them Fleeing Judea at the 1290.

Revelation 14 occurs in the seals because the wrath of God is over when the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, at the 7th trumpet. That means Armageddon is over and the Lord has set up His kingdom on earth.

Revelation 11

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

So the wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet. When you are reading Revelation 13 and 14 you are back in the seals. The fifth seal occurs during the great tribulation. Here is the great tribulation in Revelation 14

Revelation 14

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

If you have some analytical ability, you should be able to figure out that the 144,000 are sealed earlier than the fifth seal. They are sealed when they are Christians. They do not go through the wrath of God as the harvest occurs when Jesus comes at the 6th seal which we also see in Revelation 14 and is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24.

 

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 

The Seals DO NOTHING, they are merely Jesus taking of the 7 Seals that bind the Judgment Scrolls, why do you think John wept, the Seals have to be broken before Judgment and Justice can come forth. 

When that first seal is open and the rider on the white rides, which is soon, the people around here are not going to say the seals do nothing. Each seal brings something be it war, famine, pestilence, death and the great tribulation and then the coming of Jesus at the 6th IN THE CLOUDS. Not to the earth. The happens at the 7th trumpet.

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

No, why would they need PROTECTION from the Earth, Sea and Tree Judgments? Why? Because they are still on this earth!! Of curse, so let me break it down. Its what I do.

They do not need protection as they are not going through the wrath of God. They are raptured to heaven sometime in the first four seals, which was proven above. You need to understand what you are reading.

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

The Barley has a FIRST FRUITS, and so does the Grapes as does The Wheat (Israel). Did you not realize this brother? Thus, the Jews/Israel are the Wheat that grows until the VERY END with the Tares, that is also when Israeli Saints of old get raised, as Daniel was clearly told in Dan. 12:1-2 THINK !! The Anti-Christ dies in Dan. 11:45 then in the very next verse Daniel is told these times oof troubles will bring a Resurrection of his peoples and that he would stand in his lot at the very end of time. You have conflated everything brother. TIMELINES are key, until you grasp the importance of the 1260 these deep truths will always escape you. They are the First-fruits of the Father, they are not the Church.

This is what confuses you, this is PROSE, you do understand that our prayers go before THE THRONE right now right? Watch this.

Rev. 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

Here watch this. Yes, there are prayers before the throne, but here is the Church in heaven before the throne that are not prayers.

Revelation 5

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Here are the 144,000 before the throne, which happens before the fifth seal.

Revelation 14

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Here are the Jews in heaven that arrived in heaven at the 6th seal. They are the harvest that the 144,000 are first fruits of.

Revelation 15

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

 

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 

That is you misreading it. Clearly they NEED PROTECTION from the coming Wrath of God as Rev. 7 says.

I understand that from Revelation 14 we can prove that the 144,000 are sealed BEFORE the 5th seal and likely sometime around the 1st seal. I also understand that the harvest of which they are 1st fruits of happens when Jesus comes at the 6th seal. The great multitude is the result of this harvest.

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

There were Three Harvest Celebrated, the Barley, the Wheat and the Grape Harvest Festivals. Jesus used these THREE HARVESTS to teach us what is coming at the very end of time. The Barley comes first and need not to be CRUSHED, you agree the Church is READY NOW right?

I think right now the Church should be getting ready as the Lord is at the door.

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 

The Wheat has to be CRUSHED in order to be Sifted and thus Harvested, and the Grapes are clearly shown to be placed in the Winepress of God's Wrath.

The Dead in Christ and those of us STILL ALIVE are raised at the exact same time, a BLINK of an Eye is not a difference of TIME, look again, we all meet Jesus in the Sky (Both the Dead and Alive) and go to be with the Lord at the exact same time.

No. The dead in Christ rise first, the barley harvest. The alive remain. Then the Lord comes for the wheat harvest. He will bring the dead in Christ with Him in the clouds. This does not happen in the twinkling of an eye.

1 Corinthians 15 that happens in the twinkling of an eye occurs at the 6th seal. The dead and alive are raised at the same time.

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

No, the Barley are the Church, the Wheat is Israel, they will not repent until they have been  CRUSHED by the Tribulation. These are well know factoids brother, when does Israel repent/ The 70th week, when does the Church repent? Pre 70th week.

The Wheat ARE NOT in Heaven, look at Dan. 12:1-2, the Angels and Man in Linen (Jesus) clearly tells Daniel he will be raise at the VERY END, they are already married to the Father, why do they need to go to Heaven? We the Church are Jesus' Bride, not the 144,000 they have THE FATHERS name in their foreheads !!

The 6th Seal is only Jesus FORETELLING what the Fourth Trump brings to pass, well really what all 7 Trumps will bring, the DOTL. 

It is the Pre Trib FLASHBACK.

I can't agree with any of this as it is not correct. Howver, I will say most pretribbers would likely agree with you as they do not realize there are two raptures as the fig tree has two harvests and Jacob had two brides and there are two harvests, grain and fruit.

Edited June 14, 2023 by The Light