Crowns, no crowns, comparison table

[douggg]

In Revelation 17, Revelation 12, Revelation 13, the seven heads are seven kings. The ten horns are ten kings.    The crowns/no crowns varies when those three chapter are compared.      

The purpose of this comparison table is to help the readers to see all three chapters crowns/no crowns at one time. 

If you zoom out on your monitor, so all three chapters are shown at the same time, the comparison table is a little more easy to follow.

 

Revelation 17 - timestamp status - first century
seven heads - no crowns (end times completion)
ten horns - no crowns (end times completion)

Revelation 12 - timestamp status - end times, the 7 years before Jesus returns.
seven heads - crowns (seven kings completion)
ten horns - no crowns

Revelation 13 - timestamp status - end times, 42 months before Jesus returns
seven heads - no crowns. one head mortally wounded but healed - the beast king.
ten horns - crowns (to rule with the beast king).

[Revelation Man]

22 hours ago, douggg said:

In Revelation 17, Revelation 12, Revelation 13, the seven heads are seven kings. The ten horns are ten kings.    The crowns/no crowns varies when those three chapter are compared.      

The purpose of this comparison table is to help the readers to see all three chapters crowns/no crowns at one time. 

If you zoom out on your monitor, so all three chapters are shown at the same time, the comparison table is a little more easy to follow.

 

Revelation 17 - timestamp status - first century
seven heads - no crowns (end times completion)
ten horns - no crowns (end times completion)

Revelation 12 - timestamp status - end times, the 7 years before Jesus returns.
seven heads - crowns (seven kings completion)
ten horns - no crowns

Revelation 13 - timestamp status - end times, 42 months before Jesus returns
seven heads - no crowns. one head mortally wounded but healed - the beast king.
ten horns - crowns (to rule with the beast king).

You are going about this all wrong douggg. Think of the CROWNS or NO CROWNS as an Identity Mark.

Who is Satan over? The WHOLE WORLD says Luke 4, as does Paul elsewhere. (he's the god of this world)

Who is the Anti-Christ over? Europe is where he emerges from.

Who is Apollyon over? No one on this earth, he is nota physical king, now is he ever over Satan. 

So, The Dragon has Crowns on all 7 Kingdoms in the Mediterranean Sea Region being spoken about, he also has crowns over New York, Brazil, Florida, L.A., Brussels, London, South Africa et al, but only the 7 Heads are being spoken of here. But, of course, he is over every one of them.

The Anti-Christ is born amongst the 10 (E.U.) and thus arises after the 10 (Complete Europe) reemerges. These Kings FREELY give their power unto the Beast (Rev. 17:12) meaning he is elected by the E.U. Parliament. This is why he has 10 CROWNS on the 10 Kings. He is over the E.U. and 10 simply means Completion.

Apollyon has only one kingdom, that is over the Bottomless Pit. Thus he has NO CROWNS when the 7 Headed 10 Kings are spoken about. 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Revelation Man

[douggg]

9 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You are going about this all wrong douggg.

What is "this" ?

Maybe you misunderstood the intent of the comparsion chart.  I made a comparison table of the crowns/no crowns on the seven heads and ten horns of the three chapters of Revelation 17, Revelation 12, Revelation 13 to help others see the crowns/no crowns of the chapters at one time.

Once you figure out what your "this" is, then maybe you should make a new thread with that title, starting out with the content of your post.

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by douggg

[Michael37]

My Notes:

Regarding the Ten Crowned Horns of the Beast:

View with Crowns Received

Rev 13:1  Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name.

View with Crowns Pending

Rev 17:12-13  "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast.  (13)  These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast.
 

Regarding the Blasphemous Nature of the Beast:

On Heads, In Speech, As Covering

Rev 13:1  Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name.

Rev 13:5-6  The beast was given a mouth to speak arrogant and blasphemous words, and authority to act for 42 months.  (6)  And the beast opened its mouth to speak blasphemies against God and to slander His name and His tabernacle—those who dwell in heaven.

Rev 17:3  And the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness, where I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns.

You're welcome,

Blessings from Michael37

[Revelation Man]

11 hours ago, douggg said:

What is "this" ?

Maybe you misunderstood the intent of the comparsion chart.  I made a comparison table of the crowns/no crowns on the seven heads and ten horns of the three chapters of Revelation 17, Revelation 12, Revelation 13 to help others see the crowns/no crowns of the chapters at one time.

Once you figure out what your "this" is, then maybe you should make a new thread with that title, starting out with the content of your post.

 

THIS...........Means you assume the mention of the NO CROWNS means (it seems to me) the End Times have not arrived, when the NO CROWNS were mentioned, because you placed TIMESTAMPS First Century each time but that is not what it means. Anywhere you have 7 Heads that has to be after the 7th Head (Anti-Christ/Beast) has come to power, and the 10 or Ten Kings represents the E.U. (Rome Completely Revived under the E.U. moniker). The number 10 means COMPLETION. Therefore we do not need a real number, we need a number that can represent the E.U. what it was 15 nation, then 20, then 25 the 27 etc. That way it always fits !! That we we are not looking for a certain number, which God was not willing to allow Satan to understand His plans in full 2000 years ahead of time. The number 10 is used by God here to mean the COMPLETE NUMBER THEREOF. So, those looking for 10 Regions are never going to see it is the E.U. 

So, I think I understood the chart, maybe I am wrong and did not see what you were trying to saying. But your M.O. using TIMESTAMPS was  a great idea, it gets people to understand your point easier. But, as I was saying, I think you got the TIMESTAMS (THIS) wrong brother. Anywhere we see the 7 and/or 10 we know that has to be after the Beast and E.U. (10) have taken over, thus it only has a 42 month period of time that's the TIMESTAMP and that is the only time period it can represent. 

The CROWNS or NO CROWNS are placed there to identify which Beast is being spoken about. The Dragon is over the whole world, every region and every city, and every kingdom in history, so saying he was over Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, (remember the Dan. 10 reference where Michael was resisted for 21 days? That was Apollyon, Satan's underling), Rome and he of course will be over the Anti-Christ, Rev. 13 says the Dragon gives the Beast his Seat of Power !! So, that is why he has CROWNS on the 7, but not the 10, he is over the Beast who is over the 10. 

Now we can do the exact same thing with the 10 Kings (E.U.) the Beast/A.C. will be over the E.U. that is why there are TEN CROWNS (10 = Completion) on the 10 Kings (E.U.). This lets us know this end time Beast is only over ONE KINGDOM, and that means he is a MAN (666) not a Kingdom per se. Lastly we get the Beast that arises out of the Bottomless Pit. We are told in Rev. 11 this is Apollyon, he was assigned to DESTROY Israel, he was thus over Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome......THEN PLACED IN THE PIT for the duration of the Church Age, but he will be released at the 1st Woe and will once again be over The Beast System (Rev. 9) and he will be allowed to kill the Two-witnesses. Why does he have NO CROWNS? Because on this earth, as a Spiritual Entity, he always has to be under Satan, thus on this earth he can NEVER have a CROWN, thus NO CROWNS are shown for the Scarlet Colored Beast Apollyon. ALL THREE have 7 and 10 in their Descriptions, this that means Divine Completion and Completion, means it has to be END TIMES, besides, as we see, Apollyon is not released until the 1st Woe. He was locked up after 70 AD. 

THIS was about the TIMESTAMPS. 

[douggg]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

But, as I was saying, I think you got the TIMESTAMS (THIS) wrong brother. Anywhere we see the 7 and/or 10 we know that has to be after the Beast and E.U. (10) have taken over, thus it only has a 42 month period of time that's the TIMESTAMP and that is the only time period it can represent. 

Revelation 17 is timestamped first century because in Revelation 17:10, the sixth king was ruling at the time of John, first century.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Revelation 12 is timestamped endtimes because there are the 7 years in the chapter, the 1260 days, then Satan cast down, then the times, times half time he has left.

1260 days + the times, times, half time = the seven years

Reveation 13 is timestamped endtimes because the beast (king), the mortally wounded by healed head, is given 42 months in verse 5, the second half of the seven years.    And he will be worshiped during that time.

The beast in Revelation 17 is not worshiped in that chapter, nor in Chapter 12.

Edited June 17, 2023 by douggg

[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, douggg said:

Revelation 17 is timestamped first century because in Revelation 17:10, the sixth king was ruling at the time of John, first century.

That is not relevant, John wrote the whole book or Revelation in 90ish AD when Rome was ruling, now look at what the ONE THAT WAS..........is conveying, its about 5 Kings who FALL...........ONE THAT WAS..........AND the ONE TO COME, so it is about ALL 7, and the reason we are given 5 Haven fallen, ONE IS (and we know he FALLS) and one to come who will also FALL is to show us or teach us something very, very important. All of these Kingdom Beasts were started by ONE MAN of course as Dan. 7:17 shows us.

Dan. 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

So, we are told about 7 Mountains (powers) that ARISE. Then we are told about 7 Kings who FALL. Its not about the ONE THAT WAS, he fell also eventually. What God wants us to see is out of all of these "Beast Kingdoms" all had ONE KING to start the Beast System they were in, but all of them PASSED ON their Kingdom(s) and thus they were known as Kingdom Beasts a la, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome, BUT......the Last Beast both ARISES & FALLS and he is the only one to do this, that is why in Dan. 7:11 and Rev. 19:20 he himself is called THE BEAST, he never passes his kingdom on to another. That is all Rev. 17 is trying to convey via the 7 kings who Arise and 7 Kings who Fall. That the LAST BEAST, is a MAN (666) not a Beast Kingdom per se. The Anti-Christ himself is thus THE BEAST. 

By the way, that portion of Rev. 17 is not even about the Scarlet Colored Beast (Apollyon) anyway its about the 7 Heads whom Satan and Apollyon is over. The scriptures show us this.

Rev. 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not;(Different that the 7,WATCH BELOW) and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. ( He is in the Bottomless Pit, thus he was.......IS NOT...........yet is)

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom(THIS PORTION, is not about the Beast from the Bottomless Pit UNTIL we get to the 8th King, WATCH). The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And (Now we are told about the 7 Beasts who both ARISE also FALL) there are seven kings(not 6): five are fallen, and one is(Rome, who we know also FALLS, no need to say it), and the other(Anti-Christ/Beast Man) is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. (Meaning he will FALL after only 42 months)

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth(NOW we add back in the Scarlet Colored Beast that John saw in the Rev. 17 Vision SEE MY POINT ABOVE? The ones who FALL are not speaking about Apollyon the 8th king, of the Bottomless Pit), and is of the seven(only a Demon can be of all 7), and goeth into perdition.

The whole portion you read is about 7 Kings who ARISE and FALL, its not about the 6th King (Rome) per se.

The Scarlet Colored Beast has NO KINGDOM on this earth, he is under Satan in the Spirit World, plus Satan was given Dominion over this earth, not Apollyon. He is not a human being so he can have no physical kingdom on this earth, his KINGDOM is the Bottomless Pit, making him an 8th King, but with NO CROWNS on this earth.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Revelation Man

[douggg]

13 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

That is not relevant, John wrote the whole book or Revelation in 90ish AD when Rome was ruling,

Sure it is relevant.   The sixth king was ruling at the time of John, 1st century.     Thus the seven heads and the ten horns, neither had crowns in Revelation 17 - because those are to be fulfilled in the end times chapters of Revelation 12 and Revelation 13 when they do have crowns.

[douggg]

16 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

That is not relevant, John wrote the whole book or Revelation in 90ish AD when Rome was ruling, now look at what the ONE THAT WAS..........is conveying, its about 5 Kings who FALL...........ONE THAT WAS..........AND the ONE TO COME, so it is about ALL 7, and the reason we are given 5 Haven fallen, ONE IS (and we know he FALLS) and one to come who will also FALL is to show us or teach us something very, very important. All of these Kingdom Beasts were started by ONE MAN of course as Dan. 7:17 shows us.

Dan. 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

So, we are told about 7 Mountains (powers) that ARISE. Then we are told about 7 Kings who FALL. Its not about the ONE THAT WAS, he fell also eventually. What God wants us to see is out of all of these "Beast Kingdoms" all had ONE KING to start the Beast System they were in, but all of them PASSED ON their Kingdom(s) and thus they were known as Kingdom Beasts a la, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome, BUT......the Last Beast both ARISES & FALLS and he is the only one to do this, that is why in Dan. 7:11 and Rev. 19:20 he himself is called THE BEAST, he never passes his kingdom on to another. That is all Rev. 17 is trying to convey via the 7 kings who Arise and 7 Kings who Fall. That the LAST BEAST, is a MAN (666) not a Beast Kingdom per se. The Anti-Christ himself is thus THE BEAST. 

By the way, that portion of Rev. 17 is not even about the Scarlet Colored Beast (Apollyon) anyway its about the 7 Heads whom Satan and Apollyon is over. The scriptures show us this.

Rev. 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not;(Different that the 7,WATCH BELOW) and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. ( He is in the Bottomless Pit, thus he was.......IS NOT...........yet is)

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom(THIS PORTION, is not about the Beast from the Bottomless Pit UNTIL we get to the 8th King, WATCH). The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And (Now we are told how the 7 Who Beasts who ARISE also FALL) there are seven kings(not 6): five are fallen, and one is(Rome, who we know also FALLS, no need to say it), and the other(Anti-Christ/Beast Man) is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. (Meaning he will FALL after 42 months)

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth(NOW we add back in the Scarlet Colored Beast that John saw in the Rev. 17 Vision SEE MY POINT ABOVE? The ones who FALL are not speaking about Apollyon the 8th king, of the Bottomless Pit), and is of the seven(only a Demon can be of all 7), and goeth into perdition.

The whole portion you read is about 7 Kings who ARISE and FALL, its not about the 6th King (Rome) per se.

The Scarlet Colored Beast has NO KINGDOM on this earth, he is under Satan in the Spirit World, plus Satan was given Dominion over this earth, not Apollyon. He is not a human being so he can have no physical kingdom on this earth, his KINGDOM is the Bottomless Pit, making him an 8th King, but with NO CROWNS on this earth.

You are giving your interpretation of all of Revelation 17.

That was not my intent of the crowns/no crowns comparison table. 

A person could use the comparison table to assist in formulating their interpretation if they choose to do so.      But giving an interpretation of Revelation 17 and other end times events - was not my intent of the crowns/no crowns comparison table.

I have three other threads...that gets into identities.

Who's who in Revelation 17

Who's who in Revelation 12

Who's who in Revelation 13

 

 

[Revelation Man]

10 hours ago, douggg said:

Sure it is relevant.   The sixth king was ruling at the time of John, 1st century.     Thus the seven heads and the ten horns, neither had crowns in Revelation 17 - because those are to be fulfilled in the end times chapters of Revelation 12 and Revelation 13 when they do have crowns.

As I stated, that is not what it is about, the Scarlet Colored Beast is Apollyon, thus the whole 7 Kings have arisen (Mountain) and 7 have fallen DOES NOT APPLY to the Scarlet Colored Beast who is Apollyon, the 8th king. 

The Scarlet Colored Beast is not one of the 7, he is the 8th. 

10 hours ago, douggg said:

You are giving your interpretation of all of Revelation 17.

That was not my intent of the crowns/no crowns comparison table. 

A person could use the comparison table to assist in formulating their interpretation if they choose to do so.      But giving an interpretation of Revelation 17 and other end times events - was not my intent of the crowns/no crowns comparison table.

I have three other threads...that gets into identities.

Who's who in Revelation 17

Who's who in Revelation 12

Who's who in Revelation 13

I am just trying to IDENTIFY who the Three Beasts spoken of in Rev. 12, 13 and 17 are. NOTICE, you do not have to be a Human to b a Beast (Rev. 12 shows Satan is The Beast). So, the reason the CROWNS are on the 7 Heads is because Satan is ruling over them as the god of this world. So, the Scarlet Colored Beast is another Demon Beast, NOTICE, Red & Scarlet, but different Demons, meanwhile the Human Beast has no tagged color. 

The CROWNS simply IDENTIFIES the Beast being spoken about. 

1.) Satan has 7 CROWNS over all 7 Beast Kingdoms

2.) The Anti-Christ has 10 CROWNS over the 10 Kings (E.U.) because they make him their President or "King".

3.) Apollyon has NO CROWNS because he has NO KINGDOMS on this earth. 

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by Revelation Man