Doctrine vs Unity

[Philologos]

Recently, a local radio bible ministry leader was in a discussion about finding the right church and offered to his listeners, advice and a warning to “choose doctrine above unity,” because you don’t want to be in unity with the unrighteous who attend church with you.  

It seemed an unusual thing to blurt out, so I asked for clarification on it from him, to no avail…

Any thoughts on this, pro or con? Since he wouldn’t offer more details on his reasons, any help in understanding this would be appreciated.
Is this a new thing in churches? Do they tell you this now? Is Unity in the Body now a theory, rather than a practice? Was this guy just venting some past baggage in the form of a public-service announcement?

 

 

[FJK]

I can see his point, there are many false teachings in the Church today and we need to avoid falling victim to them by joining in with those that have and teach them or don't really believe in anything other than social congregation.

(If that was what he intended to mean, he might have meant something different.)

[Philologos]

17 hours ago, FJK said:

I can see his point, there are many false teachings in the Church today and we need to avoid falling victim to them by joining in with those that have and teach them or don't really believe in anything other than social congregation.

(If that was what he intended to mean, he might have meant something different.)

Thanks for responding. 
Perhaps that’s what he meant, but even though this is a call-in or write-in radio program, he has yet to respond to my last two write-ins.
 

It seemed like he was issuing a warning that any church that seeks unity with each other and God should be avoided and one should seek a doctrinally-focused, (he didn’t specify which doctrine), church to attend.

I guess I’m just not able to comprehend: 1-a warning against the unity of the Body, 2- from someone who invites people to bible studies to foster the ‘feeling of belonging’ in a group setting and openly supports church membership.

I think you’re right, some settle for the social connection, not Unity or doctrine. Seems to be an ever-increasing trend.

 

[FreeGrace]

19 hours ago, Philologos said:

Recently, a local radio bible ministry leader was in a discussion about finding the right church and offered to his listeners, advice and a warning to “choose doctrine above unity,” because you don’t want to be in unity with the unrighteous who attend church with you.  
It seemed an unusual thing to blurt out, so I asked for clarification on it from him, to no avail…

Any thoughts on this, pro or con? Since he wouldn’t offer more details on his reasons, any help in understanding this would be appreciated.
Is this a new thing in churches? Do they tell you this now? Is Unity in the Body now a theory, rather than a practice? Was this guy just venting some past baggage in the form of a public-service announcement?

There is the issue of what is "essential doctrine" and what isn't "essential".  By that, "essential" refers to what is essential for salvation.  There are widely differing views among evangelicals as to what is essential, believe it or not.  And quite sad.  Some believe one must "turn from sin" which isn't even possible, if ceasing from sin was meant.  Of course ALL believers are commanded to be holy, which means we ought not to sin.  But since 1 John 1:9 is for believers WHEN they sin, obviously no one ceases from sin.  But many think they are doing that, in spite of what 1 John 1:8 and 10 says plainly.

How can believers fellowship when some think that salvation can be lost while others know that salvation cannot be lost?

So these are probably the issues the radio host was thinking about.

[Philologos]

25 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

There is the issue of what is "essential doctrine" and what isn't "essential".  By that, "essential" refers to what is essential for salvation.  There are widely differing views among evangelicals as to what is essential, believe it or not.  And quite sad.  Some believe one must "turn from sin" which isn't even possible, if ceasing from sin was meant.  Of course ALL believers are commanded to be holy, which means we ought not to sin.  But since 1 John 1:9 is for believers WHEN they sin, obviously no one ceases from sin.  But many think they are doing that, in spite of what 1 John 1:8 and 10 says plainly.

How can believers fellowship when some think that salvation can be lost while others know that salvation cannot be lost?

So these are probably the issues the radio host was thinking about.

“Essential doctrine for salvation?” Is that what is meant by a “saving knowledge of Christ?” Can a person be saved by doctrine?

And with the variety, even in essential doctrines, how would one find a church that teaches the right combination of doctrine that would ensure salvation? 
 

[FreeGrace]

10 minutes ago, Philologos said:

“Essential doctrine for salvation?” Is that what is meant by a “saving knowledge of Christ?” Can a person be saved by doctrine?

There are essential facts that must be believed in order to be saved.

1.  Jesus is not only human but Deity; God the Son. 

2.  Jesus died on the cross for the sins of mankind to pay the sin penalty that separates man from God.

3.  Faith/trust/belief in His work on the cross will save the believer.  This eliminates any idea that man must "cooperate" with Jesus through lifestyle changes.  Another word for "works".

 

10 minutes ago, Philologos said:

And with the variety, even in essential doctrines, how would one find a church that teaches the right combination of doctrine that would ensure salvation? 

Listen carefully.  If hearing the gospel but noting if any essentials missing, is a red flag.   

 

[Alive]

A person is saved first--aside from doctirne. Doctrine comes afterwards.

All that is required for Salvation is believing that Christ is the Way the Truth and the Life and that faith is a gift.

The Lord has His little ones in all kinds of places.

[Mr. M]

32 minutes ago, Alive said:

A person is saved first--aside from doctirne. Doctrine comes afterwards.

All that is required for Salvation is believing that Christ is the Way the Truth and the Life and that faith is a gift.

The Lord has His little ones in all kinds of places.

While I agree in the essentials that Salvation begins with reconciliation, brought about by believing the Gospel, I question whether or not Who Christ is must be a included as an essential element in how the Good News is being presented by modern evangelicalism.

1 John 5:

4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world.

And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 

5 Who is he who overcomes the world,

but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

Consider the immediate reaction of Saul to his conversion.

Acts 9:20 Immediately he preached the Christ in the synagogues,

that He is the Son of God.

John makes this essential in stating that this is central to his Gospel.

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ,

the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

I am convinced that most avoid this truth while leading someone to faith in Christ, because it becomes a complex matter to explain, i.e. more in depth doctrine as you have referenced. However, this is something that can only be understood in living the relationship, which is not essential to believing. That someone could die for the sins of the entire world isn't exactly an easy truth for someone to wrap their head around, but it is essential, in that only the Son of God met the qualifications to do so. This reality is what resulted in the crucifixion.

John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and according to our law

He ought to die, because He made Himself the Son of God.

This is a sure word pertaining to the testimony of God Himself.

2 Peter 1:

17 For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice

came to Him from the Excellent Glory:

This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

18 And we heard this voice which came from heaven

when we were with Him on the holy mountain.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Mr. M
amend text

[Philologos]

36 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

There are essential facts that must be believed in order to be saved.

1.  Jesus is not only human but Deity; God the Son. 

2.  Jesus died on the cross for the sins of mankind to pay the sin penalty that separates man from God.

3.  Faith/trust/belief in His work on the cross will save the believer.  This eliminates any idea that man must "cooperate" with Jesus through lifestyle changes.  Another word for "works".

 

Listen carefully.  If hearing the gospel but noting if any essentials missing, is a red flag.   

 

First time I’ve heard ‘works’ defined as lifestyle changes. My previous lifestyle was that of a violent alcoholic. By my lifestyle changing, was I misled into “works” by people teaching me?

[Mr. M]

21 hours ago, Philologos said:

Recently, a local radio bible ministry leader was in a discussion about finding the right church and offered to his listeners, advice and a warning to “choose doctrine above unity,” because you don’t want to be in unity with the unrighteous who attend church with you.  

It seemed an unusual thing to blurt out, so I asked for clarification on it from him, to no avail…

Any thoughts on this, pro or con? Since he wouldn’t offer more details on his reasons, any help in understanding this would be appreciated.
Is this a new thing in churches? Do they tell you this now? Is Unity in the Body now a theory, rather than a practice? Was this guy just venting some past baggage in the form of a public-service announcement?

 

 

Sounds like a formula for inter-denominational bashing.

Have churches found any agreement, any common ground

in comprehending this one verse?

Acts 2:42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine

and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.

If there are essential doctrines for the day to day lives of believers,

reconciled to God in Christ, surely this is foundational moving forward.

Hebrews 6:

1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ,

let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance

from dead works and of faith toward God, 

2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection

of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 

3 And this we will do if God permits.

Zeroing in on the thread topic, Paul addresses unity over doctrine here.

Philippians 2:

15 Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if

in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you. 

16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, 

let us walk by the same rule, let us be of the same mind.