Shilohsfoal Posted March 12 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 12 (edited) 9 hours ago, abcdef said: Two resurrections, Jesus the first and then those who are His at the rapt/resur. There are no more and no less, 2 only, 1 Cor 15 :23-28. The resurrection of Jesus has passed, that is the first resurrection in 33 AD. That is the resurrection that Dan 12:1-3 is referring to. The resurrection theory in Paul's time that he referred to in 2 Tim was that some were saying that the act of baptism was the 2nd resurrection and that there was no resurrection from the dead. That is far away from what I said. Your teaching the great tribulation in Daniel 12:1 took place when Christ was resurected? Jesus said the great tribulation takes place at his coming but you teach it took place while he was still on earth? Edited March 12 by Shilohsfoal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted March 14 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.93 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Share Posted March 14 On 3/12/2024 at 3:41 PM, Shilohsfoal said: Your teaching the great tribulation in Daniel 12:1 took place when Christ was resurected? Jesus said the great tribulation takes place at his coming but you teach it took place while he was still on earth? Rome is the 4th beast of Dan 7. The 4th beast began it's reign over the children of Israel in 63 BC. That means Jesus and the apostles lived under the power of the 4th Roman beast. Rome tried to kill Jesus at his birth, Herod. Rome killed John the Baptist, Jesus, apostles, thousands of Israel and gentile Christians, and is continual from 63 BC until our day and will end at perdition. ---- That means that the mark of the beast and the trouble (tribulation) from the 4th beast was already in place in their time. The different periods of trouble that Jesus talked about were the time before, during, and after the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem. The "great" trouble that Jesus referenced in Matt 24 was talking about when Israel was scattered into the gentile nations, killed, or taken as slaves after 70 AD. --- So yes, the trouble described in Dan 12:1-3 is the 70 AD ish time period. The resurrection described is the resurrection of Jesus and the OT saints in 33 AD. The time of trouble (tribulation) began in 63 BC when the Roman 4th beast of Dan 7 came into power. The time of even greater trouble came after 70 AD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie744 Posted March 14 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,688 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 862 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted March 14 1 hour ago, abcdef said: Rome is the 4th beast of Dan 7. The 4th beast began it's reign over the children of Israel in 63 BC. That means Jesus and the apostles lived under the power of the 4th Roman beast. Rome tried to kill Jesus at his birth, Herod. Rome killed John the Baptist, Jesus, apostles, thousands of Israel and gentile Christians, and is continual from 63 BC until our day and will end at perdition. ---- That means that the mark of the beast and the trouble (tribulation) from the 4th beast was already in place in their time. The different periods of trouble that Jesus talked about were the time before, during, and after the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem. The "great" trouble that Jesus referenced in Matt 24 was talking about when Israel was scattered into the gentile nations, killed, or taken as slaves after 70 AD. --- So yes, the trouble described in Dan 12:1-3 is the 70 AD ish time period. The resurrection described is the resurrection of Jesus and the OT saints in 33 AD. The time of trouble (tribulation) began in 63 BC when the Roman 4th beast of Dan 7 came into power. The time of even greater trouble came after 70 AD. @abcdef Don’t know if you will agree with this but I believe the AOD or the Abomination that CAUSES desolation is the cross. Specifically, the Jews would reject Jesus as their Messiah and have Him crucified. This is the “Abomination” that they inflicted on their God that would cause Him to separate Himself from them for the next 2000 years. Their decision to reject Him and their actions would cause a total and complete desolation from their God. There is nothing that could possibly be greater than their rejection and crucifixion of their God. Jesus would refer to this event in Matthew, Mark and in Luke … “when you see …” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted March 14 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 14 6 hours ago, abcdef said: Rome is the 4th beast of Dan 7. The 4th beast began it's reign over the children of Israel in 63 BC. That means Jesus and the apostles lived under the power of the 4th Roman beast. Rome tried to kill Jesus at his birth, Herod. Rome killed John the Baptist, Jesus, apostles, thousands of Israel and gentile Christians, and is continual from 63 BC until our day and will end at perdition. ---- That means that the mark of the beast and the trouble (tribulation) from the 4th beast was already in place in their time. The different periods of trouble that Jesus talked about were the time before, during, and after the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem. The "great" trouble that Jesus referenced in Matt 24 was talking about when Israel was scattered into the gentile nations, killed, or taken as slaves after 70 AD. --- So yes, the trouble described in Dan 12:1-3 is the 70 AD ish time period. The resurrection described is the resurrection of Jesus and the OT saints in 33 AD. The time of trouble (tribulation) began in 63 BC when the Roman 4th beast of Dan 7 came into power. The time of even greater trouble came after 70 AD. Herod was not Rome. Herod was a Jew and the king of Judea . Not the king of Rome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted March 14 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 14 6 hours ago, abcdef said: Rome is the 4th beast of Dan 7. The 4th beast began it's reign over the children of Israel in 63 BC. That means Jesus and the apostles lived under the power of the 4th Roman beast. Rome tried to kill Jesus at his birth, Herod. Rome killed John the Baptist, Jesus, apostles, thousands of Israel and gentile Christians, and is continual from 63 BC until our day and will end at perdition. ---- That means that the mark of the beast and the trouble (tribulation) from the 4th beast was already in place in their time. The different periods of trouble that Jesus talked about were the time before, during, and after the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem. The "great" trouble that Jesus referenced in Matt 24 was talking about when Israel was scattered into the gentile nations, killed, or taken as slaves after 70 AD. --- So yes, the trouble described in Dan 12:1-3 is the 70 AD ish time period. The resurrection described is the resurrection of Jesus and the OT saints in 33 AD. The time of trouble (tribulation) began in 63 BC when the Roman 4th beast of Dan 7 came into power. The time of even greater trouble came after 70 AD. PS Jerusalem is responsible for all the righteous blood shed upon earth.One thing you can't do.Quote anything bad about Rome without claiming it's Rome.I can quote about Jerusalem all day long. Like this Mathew 23 34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted March 14 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.93 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Share Posted March 14 9 hours ago, Charlie744 said: @abcdef Don’t know if you will agree with this but I believe the AOD or the Abomination that CAUSES desolation is the cross. Specifically, the Jews would reject Jesus as their Messiah and have Him crucified. This is the “Abomination” that they inflicted on their God that would cause Him to separate Himself from them for the next 2000 years. Even though the death of Jesus was tragic, because of it souls where forgiven and saved. The details were something that was kept hidden from men until after it happened, 1 Cor 2:7-8. Souls could be forgiven for killing Jesus, but not for rejecting the new covenant Pentecost kingdom of Israel. This is the reason that Jerusalem fell in 70 AD. Because they crucified Jesus? Yes. But the greater sin was to reject forgiveness and salvation. If Israel had accepted the new covenant, it may have been that it would have not fallen. ---- Understand that there are 2 Israels. One group accepts Jesus and the new covenant and has a living relationship with Jesus by the gift of the Holy Spirit Acts 2:38. The other group has rejected Jesus and suffers the withdrawing of the blessings associated with a new covenant loving and protection over the souls relationship with Jesus. They have no living relationship with the God who loves them, by their own choice. These 2 groups are here today just as they have been in 70 AD and for centuries before that. Tracing the history of these 2 groups after 70 AD shows that one group (1/3) fled into the gentile nations and the other group was killed (1/3) or taken as slaves by Rome (1/3). The Rev timelines parallel this pattern. The entity that imposes his will on Israel who did not flee is the Roman 4th beast of Dan 7. 9 hours ago, Charlie744 said: Their decision to reject Him and their actions would cause a total and complete desolation from their God. There is nothing that could possibly be greater than their rejection and crucifixion of their God. 9 hours ago, Charlie744 said: Jesus would refer to this event in Matthew, Mark and in Luke … “when you see …” Look at the gathering in Matt 24:30-31. The gathering is the promised restoration of Jerusalem when the times of the gentiles is beginning to end. The trumpet that is blown is the 5th trumpet and not the resurrection 7th trumpet. 5 is the number for division. In this example the 5th calls Israel to come out of the gentile nations and restore Jerusalem. In Lk 21:20-24, 24, Jesus shows a limited time to the gentile control of Jerusalem. When the time is ended Jerusalem is restored. --- The statue of Dan 2 begins when Jerusalem falls to Babylon. The statue ends when Jerusalem is restored. 1967 The statue has ended because Jerusalem is restored and Rome has no more power over the children of Israel in Jerusalem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted March 14 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.93 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Share Posted March 14 4 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said: Herod was not Rome. Herod was a Jew and the king of Judea . Not the king of Rome. Herod was not Caesar, true. Herod was appointed by the consent of Rome and Caesar, by force. He did not act against the will of the Roman 4th beast. When he had the infants killed it was all about killing Jesus, for himself and the interests of Rome to not have a new king over Israel. Herod was not Caesar, but was certainly acting in the overall interests of the Roman beast government that he was a part of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdef Posted March 14 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,405 Content Per Day: 0.93 Reputation: 135 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/14/1951 Share Posted March 14 4 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said: PS Jerusalem is responsible for all the righteous blood shed upon earth. True, Jerusalem is responsible according to Jesus. 4 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said: One thing you can't do.Quote anything bad about Rome without claiming it's Rome. ????? John 19:15, "We have no king but Caesar." The leaders of Israel pledge their loyalty to the Roman 4th beast and reject Jesus as their king. Rev 17:10, "and one is." In John's lifetime the Roman beast "is" the 6th head. 4 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said: I can quote about Jerusalem all day long. Like this Mathew 23 34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted March 14 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 14 1 hour ago, abcdef said: Herod was not Caesar, true. Herod was appointed by the consent of Rome and Caesar, by force. He did not act against the will of the Roman 4th beast. When he had the infants killed it was all about killing Jesus, for himself and the interests of Rome to not have a new king over Israel. Herod was not Caesar, but was certainly acting in the overall interests of the Roman beast government that he was a part of. Herod didn't try to kill Jesus for Rome He tried to kill Jesus for himself. He acted in his osn self interest as king of judea and king of the Jews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted March 14 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted March 14 (edited) 1 hour ago, abcdef said: True, Jerusalem is responsible according to Jesus. ????? John 19:15, "We have no king but Caesar." The leaders of Israel pledge their loyalty to the Roman 4th beast and reject Jesus as their king. Rev 17:10, "and one is." In John's lifetime the Roman beast "is" the 6th head. No the leaders of Israel did not pledge their loyalty to a 4th beast.They pledged their loyalty to Caesar. John 19:15, "We have no king but Caesar." The word of God is not saying anything bad about Rome in this verse.These are the words of the Jews who reject Jesus as the Christ. Antichrist. Edited March 14 by Shilohsfoal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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