Why the focus on just a few people functioning (up front) in our gatherings?

[Vine Abider]

2 hours ago, Anne2 said:

I do believe there is biblically a distinction between these activities, as a function of God's ministers at the temple, and those having council together and synagogue. It seems these are all getting mixed together somewhat in the thread.

I appreciate all the diverse comments!  We are just having a family conversation.

[Vine Abider]

17 hours ago, AdHoc said:

For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. (1 Co 11:19)

The Greek word for "heresies" does not mean false doctrine. It means "making a political party". If God is with you, and you introduce the way of 1st Corinthians 14 and Ephesians 4, you will have opposition. You can pray and persevere. If you have been "approved" you will win and have a Biblical Meeting. If God waits to see what men will do, you will probably lose. This does not mean that you were not well pleasing to God. David also had to run for his life.

I wanted to go back and pick-up on this verse.  I've seen you quote it a number of times over the past few months.  A couple other brothers I know, who are quite into home-based gatherings, quote this verse often (one wrote a book with that verse as a key focus).  At first the verse didn't connect very well, but after seeing it several times over the past couple years, and with what you posted here - I think I see something!

From reading your posts on here, it's obvious to see who should really be allowed to be in charge of the gatherings - THE HOLY SPIRIT!  But the more parameters, agenda, rules and guidelines we put on things, the more the HS will let us be in charge.

And the HS is not paranoid in any way, of dissenters, ones who are a little off, those who cause trouble, or those who have soiled their diapers!  The Lord's Spirit is well capable of handling these various situations and people, if we just let Him!

But I certainly understand that some don't think they could tolerate such a setting for long.  It's not the easiest thing, oftentimes.

[Alive]

46 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

I wanted to go back and pick-up on this verse.  I've seen you quote it a number of times over the past few months.  A couple other brothers I know, who are quite into home-based gatherings, quote this verse often (one wrote a book with that verse as a key focus).  At first the verse didn't connect very well, but after seeing it several times over the past couple years, and with what you posted here - I think I see something!

From reading your posts on here, it's obvious to see who should really be allowed to be in charge of the gatherings - THE HOLY SPIRIT!  But the more parameters, agenda, rules and guidelines we put on things, the more the HS will let us be in charge.

And the HS is not paranoid in any way, of dissenters, ones who are a little off, those who cause trouble, or those who have soiled their diapers!  The Lord's Spirit is well capable of handling these various situations and people, if we just let Him!

But I certainly understand that some don't think they could tolerate such a setting for long.  It's not the easiest thing, oftentimes.

It can be far more rewarding for all. A lot of confirmation takes place when different ones share what the Lord is doing in them. Another will say, cool, I am hearing the same thing…things like that. Its faith building and makes for folks to be excited about the reality of Him in our midst.

[AdHoc]

5 hours ago, Alive said:

We had the same Teacher. I write that with a small measure of levity, but it is serious.

That time of prepararation is so real and needed. My two prime examples that I experienced being played out were Jacob finally coming to the end of himself…a very strong and capable self and David under Saul, who learned to not throw spears back at the insane Saul. He learned to duck, not get hit and therefore not poisoned.

Quite. David learned about God's government. Moses did too. When challenged by Korah, Moses did not call upon God to avenge him. He fell on his face. To some, this would be a sign of capitulation. But it was the actions of a man who has learned that God is able, and will, do what He will. If God wants you as Elder but there is opposition, don't struggle for it. It will come to pass. Conversely, if you are very talented and qualified, but God wants you for something else, you will NOT prevail. David learned that God's choice was Saul, and when Saul had failed and been killed, David wept. There is a man who knew God's dealings.

But there is another lesson that surpasses all examples. It is;

(Jesus) Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect ... (Heb 5:7–9a)

Jesus was perfect in all His way a trillion years before He became Man. But this perfect One allowed Himself to add human suffering and is consequences to His divinity so that he knew experimentally what we go through and especially what we will suffer when we do it for Him. He knew intellectually what obedience would bring, but he allowed Himself to feel it live.

[Alive]

2 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Quite. David learned about God's government. Moses did too. When challenged by Korah, Moses did not call upon God to avenge him. He fell on his face. To some, this would be a sign of capitulation. But it was the actions of a man who has learned that God is able, and will, do what He will. If God wants you as Elder but there is opposition, don't struggle for it. It will come to pass. Conversely, if you are very talented and qualified, but God wants you for something else, you will NOT prevail. David learned that God's choice was Saul, and when Saul had failed and been killed, David wept. There is a man who knew God's dealings.

But there is another lesson that surpasses all examples. It is;

(Jesus) Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect ... (Heb 5:7–9a)

Jesus was perfect in all His way a trillion years before He became Man. But this perfect One allowed Himself to add human suffering and is consequences to His divinity so that he knew experimentally what we go through and especially what we will suffer when we do it for Him. He knew intellectually what obedience would bring, but he allowed Himself to feel it live.

Yup…that is Yankee for Amen.

[AdHoc]

4 hours ago, Neighbor said:

It is an interesting thread with nicely voiced contrasting thoughts 

 

3 hours ago, Anne2 said:

Yes, it is interesting. I think, not sure but IMO, there are some foundational concepts that are different (therefore neglected in consideration). But I do think those differences can drive a person's views. Not absolutely sure though. 

 

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

I appreciate all the diverse comments!  We are just having a family conversation.

I believe that we are seeing Ephesians 4:1-3 in action. Wonderful!

[AdHoc]

1 hour ago, Vine Abider said:

I wanted to go back and pick-up on this verse.  I've seen you quote it a number of times over the past few months.  A couple other brothers I know, who are quite into home-based gatherings, quote this verse often (one wrote a book with that verse as a key focus).  At first the verse didn't connect very well, but after seeing it several times over the past couple years, and with what you posted here - I think I see something!

From reading your posts on here, it's obvious to see who should really be allowed to be in charge of the gatherings - THE HOLY SPIRIT!  But the more parameters, agenda, rules and guidelines we put on things, the more the HS will let us be in charge.

And the HS is not paranoid in any way, of dissenters, ones who are a little off, those who cause trouble, or those who have soiled their diapers!  The Lord's Spirit is well capable of handling these various situations and people, if we just let Him!

But I certainly understand that some don't think they could tolerate such a setting for long.  It's not the easiest thing, oftentimes.

One things about that verse is that it could, and does, work both ways. You could enter a conflict in the Church with perfect credentials. But because God's mosaic of your life needs it, you could get a beating. I have lost many more times than been approved, but two things;
1. If I am to life by faith I must accept that God meant it for my good

2. God has a plan and He must sometimes allow a defeat to mature me.

Looking back on some of my most horrible moments, when I knew that God had chosen the others, I still hurt. But it is my pride. I calculated that I was better equipped to do the work than they - and God thought otherwise. In Job 38 God posed Job 77 questions - of which He answered not one. God does not explain Himself nor does He apologize. He is never taken by surprise and His councils are immutable. When Jacob blessed his sons, Pharaoh asked him how old he was. His answer was; "my days have been few and evil". But then we learn that Jacob blessed Pharaoh. And Hebrews tells us that the lesser is blessed by the greater.

Jacob's life might have been "evil". His lessons cost. But somehow God had done a work in his life that set him above Pharaoh.

[farouk]

14 hours ago, Anne2 said:

I do believe there is biblically a distinction between these activities, as a function of God's ministers at the temple, and those having council together and synagogue. It seems these are all getting mixed together somewhat in the thread.

Hi @Anne2 Acts 2.42 activities in context do not seem to be clergy-dependent...

[bloom]

1. Come and see the show it's a dynamo!                                                                              2. Praise the Lord and pass the plate.                       

[Vine Abider]

1 hour ago, bloom said:

1. Come and see the show it's a dynamo!                                                                              2. Praise the Lord and pass the plate.                       

One brother I know is fond of saying, "Big screens, skinny jeans & fog machines."