AdHoc Posted July 11, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 4 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,047 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 1,458 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/29/2021 Status: Offline Share Posted July 11, 2023 12 hours ago, WilliamL said: Did you really understand my previous message? There are two ADs prophesied in Daniel. Only the latter, in 12:11, fulfills the requirements of Matt. 24. The former, in 11:31, precisely fulfilled the events of 168 BC. Okay. My bad. I presumed that the discussion was about the Prince and his nationality. After re-reading the posts I see your point. I'll take the blame. I also admit that your statement is correct and that I was on another track. My apologies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted July 16, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.47 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2023 On 7/10/2023 at 10:19 PM, WilliamL said: Did you really understand my previous message? There are two ADs prophesied in Daniel. Only the latter, in 12:11, fulfills the requirements of Matt. 24. The former, in 11:31, precisely fulfilled the events of 168 BC. Daniel 12:4-13 is a discussion about Daniel 11:31-12:3.It is stating how the wicked will not understand Daniel 11:1-12:3 and they don't.They believe they understand but they don't understand anything. The following is a discussion about the previous prophecy in daniel 11:1-12:3. 4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. 5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river. 6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? 7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. 8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. 13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted July 16, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,123 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,555 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted July 16, 2023 2 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said: Daniel 12:4-13 is a discussion about Daniel 11:31-12:3. ... 2 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said: 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. These verses were not fulfilled when Daniel 11:21-31 took place. But everything in the latter passage was fulfilled in every detail in the time of Antiochus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted July 16, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.47 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2023 1 hour ago, WilliamL said: These verses were not fulfilled when Daniel 11:21-31 took place. But everything in the latter passage was fulfilled in every detail in the time of Antiochus. Daniel doesn't suddenly stop prophecy after verse 31.He continues all the way to the end of chapter 12. The vile king of the north in Daniel 11:21 is the some king who comes to his end in Daniel 11:45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted July 16, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,123 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,555 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted July 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said: Daniel doesn't suddenly stop prophecy after verse 31.He continues all the way to the end of chapter 12. The vile king of the north in Daniel 11:21 is the some king who comes to his end in Daniel 11:45 Not at all. Daniel 11:40 begins by saying, "And/now at the time of the end," signifying a break in time between the events of the former verses and the latter. 11:21-31 were fulfilled in every detail by Antiochus; 11:40-12:3 were not. One cannot ever hope to understand Daniel's prophesies without having extensively studied history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted July 16, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.47 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 16, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, WilliamL said: Not at all. Daniel 11:40 begins by saying, "And/now at the time of the end," signifying a break in time between the events of the former verses and the latter. 11:21-31 were fulfilled in every detail by Antiochus; 11:40-12:3 were not. One cannot ever hope to understand Daniel's prophesies without having extensively studied history. So you believe the tribulation of the saints lasts more than 2190 years and not the time,times and a half Daniel has stated? Do you have any scripture backing this up? Edited July 16, 2023 by Shilohsfoal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted July 17, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,123 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,555 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted July 17, 2023 21 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said: So you believe the tribulation of the saints lasts more than 2190 years and not the time,times and a half Daniel has stated? Do you have any scripture backing this up? I believe the great tribulation will last about 40 days, give or take. And yes, I have scripture evidence to back this up, summed up in two blogs: The 1290 days of Daniel 12:11 will be literal days, the period "from the time the daily/continual service has been caused to be taken away and/even to the placing of an abomination of desolation: 1290 days. Blessed/happy is the one who earnestly waits, and comes/attains to 1335 days." Those 1335-1290 = 45 days will encompass the time of the great tribulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted July 17, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.47 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 17, 2023 11 minutes ago, WilliamL said: I believe the great tribulation will last about 40 days, give or take. And yes, I have scripture evidence to back this up, summed up in two blogs: The 1290 days of Daniel 12:11 will be literal days, the period "from the time the daily/continual service has been caused to be taken away and/even to the placing of an abomination of desolation: 1290 days. Blessed/happy is the one who earnestly waits, and comes/attains to 1335 days." Those 1335-1290 = 45 days will encompass the time of the great tribulation. That's not what you said You claimed Daniel 11:31 took place in 167 bc. Then you claimed the time of the end in Daniel 11:40 is in the future. Thats means you believe the persecution and tribulation of the saints in Daniel 11:33-35 has been ongoing for 2190 years. Do you have any proof that the persecution of the saints in Daniel 11:33-35 has been ongoing for the past 2190 years? Daniel 11:33-35 Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed. During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere. And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come. According to Daniel as well as revelation 13,this persecution will be a total time of 42 months but you are claiming it lasts more than 2190 years. Can you provide scripture showing the persecution of the saints last more than 2190 years as you claim? A simple verse such as these verses will suffice. Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. Or this Daniel 12:7 7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. or this 5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted July 17, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,123 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,555 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted July 17, 2023 34 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said: You claimed Daniel 11:31 took place in 167 bc. Then you claimed the time of the end in Daniel 11:40 is in the future. Thats means you believe the persecution and tribulation of the saints in Daniel 11:33-35 has been ongoing for 2190 years First two sentences, true. Last sentence, completely irrational. Moving on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted July 17, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.47 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 17, 2023 Just now, WilliamL said: First two sentences, true. Last sentence, completely irrational. Moving on... I see why you would move on.You have been in error and can not back up your own beliefs with scripture. This persecution lasts 42 months from the time the daily sacrifice is abolished in Daniel 11:31 till the time of the end in Daniel 11:40.I have provided scripture to prove that point and you have none to refute it. Daniel 11:33-35 Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed. During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere. And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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