WilliamL Posted July 17, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,135 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,560 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted July 17, 2023 21 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said: Daniel 11:33-35 Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed. During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere. And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come. All these things applied perfectly to the Maccabees and their allies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted July 17, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 17, 2023 1 minute ago, WilliamL said: All these things applied perfectly to the Maccabees and their allies. Daniel 11:33-35 Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed. During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere. And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come. The time of the end has not arrived yet. You are insisting this is about maccabees being refined and made pure till the time of the end. That would mean they have been persecuted in that way for 2190 years when Daniel says this persecution only lasts for 3.5 years. Do you not comprehend this persecution which lasts till the time of the end only lasts 3.5 years? Daniel 12:7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, “It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamL Posted July 18, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 5,135 Content Per Day: 1.48 Reputation: 2,560 Days Won: 4 Joined: 11/06/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/01/1950 Share Posted July 18, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said: And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come. The time of the end has not arrived yet. You are insisting this is about maccabees being refined and made pure till the time of the end. Dan. 12:13 “But you [Daniel], go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days.” So according to your same logic, Daniel is still alive. Cuz what applies in the former case must apply to the latter. Edited July 18, 2023 by WilliamL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted July 18, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 18, 2023 2 hours ago, WilliamL said: Dan. 12:13 “But you [Daniel], go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days.” So according to your same logic, Daniel is still alive. Cuz what applies in the former case must apply to the latter. Daniel has been laid to rest.He will be resurected at the end of days. You never of "rest in peace"? By my logic,the persecution of the saints lasts 3.5 years which is what scripture says. I don't claim maccabees have been persecuted for the last 2190 years. There is only 42 months from Daniel 11:31 to 11:40.Not thousands of years.Thats rediculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted July 18, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 908 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,653 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,837 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted July 18, 2023 On 7/2/2023 at 5:55 PM, AdHoc said: Except for six Chapters in Daniel and one verse in Jeremiah, the Holy Spirit addresses Israel, or part of it, in the Old Testament. The prophets all follow the same rough pattern. It is this; 1. Israel - you sin. If you continue I will chastise. 2. Israel - you have sinned and this is what I'm going to do ... . 3. Israel - we have a Covenant. I will chastise you but restore you. Israel's darkest hour is still ahead. It was not the death of Messiah. It is the installing of a Gentile king in the Holy of Holies. It is Israel's choice to completely overturn Moses and put a man between the Cherubim. God's wrath is indescribable. God unleashes a 42 month period of utter retribution on Israel called "Jacob's Trouble". The Nations have their conscience. Murder, adultery, stealing, bestiality and child-rape are registered in the human conscience as no-no's (R0m.2:7-16). Nevertheless, men do them. God sent His Son to die for men so that they could be forgiven. The Nations not only scoff and mock this Son, but ignore His attempts at reconciliation. Not only to they reject the peaceful overtures of God, but they mock Him and His Name. Then, after 2,000 years of hearing about him, they agree to worship a Gentile king in a temple in Jerusalem. God's wrath is indescribable. God unleashes a 42 month period of extreme retribution on the Nations called "THE Great Tribulation". Because BOTH of these events coincide and run concurrently, and because Israel is involved, some signs may be given. They are; 1. An increase in Lawlessness 2. An increase in sexual deviation 3. A new Temple in Jerusalem 4. A charismatic and accomplished political leader who comes back from the dead 5. The "day" in the prophecy is 7 years after this charismatic politician is named world dictator. 6. A fixed day is not given but a few indicators are given. Wars, rumors of wars, pestilences, and natural disasters will increase To the Church, which is based on FAITH, only one sign is given - the New Temple in Jerusalem. The big question is whether they will be in a moral state that allows God to free them from earth to miss the Tribulation. An exact date is NOT given. This was so well written with two major exceptions: 1. The Gentile King (as you describe him) will be a Jew (Zechariah 8:23) and the 10 world rulers will follow him believing he is the way to the LORD (Revelation 17:12). The Jews will be convinced he is the Messiah (John 5:43) which is how he enters the Holy of Holies (2 Thessalonians 2:3-11). 2. The time of Jacob's trouble IS he Great Tribulation (Daniel 9:27) and is for the purpose of Armageddon driving the Jews to the edge of annihilation when at last they will cry out for Yeshua to save them (Psalm 118:25-26) which Yeshua predicted in part (Matthew 23:37-39). Hosha nah (save now / hosanna) Yehoshua HaMoshiakh! Baruch habah b'shem YHVH (blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth7t7 Posted July 18, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,749 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted July 18, 2023 10 hours ago, WilliamL said: All these things applied perfectly to the Maccabees and their allies. "No" Antiochus Epiphanies 167BC played no part in Fulfilling Daniel Chapter 11 as reformed preterist eschatology teaches, and you "Suggest" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth7t7 Posted July 18, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,749 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted July 18, 2023 6 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said: By my logic,the persecution of the saints lasts 3.5 years which is what scripture says. Please provide scripture to support your claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth7t7 Posted July 18, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,749 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted July 18, 2023 6 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said: There is only 42 months from Daniel 11:31 to 11:40.Not thousands of years.Thats rediculous. I Agree, 1260 literal days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth7t7 Posted July 18, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,749 Content Per Day: 0.60 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/19/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted July 18, 2023 (edited) On 7/16/2023 at 1:29 PM, WilliamL said: These verses were not fulfilled when Daniel 11:21-31 took place. But everything in the latter passage was fulfilled in every detail in the time of Antiochus. Antioch Epiphanies 167BC played no part in fulfilling Daniel Chapter 11 a reformed preterist eschatology teaches The bad guy seen Daniel 11:36-37 is the same bad guy seen in Daniel 7:8-11 in the (Little Horn) in parallel teachings Edited July 18, 2023 by truth7t7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shilohsfoal Posted July 18, 2023 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 153 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 5,881 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 330 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/22/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted July 18, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, truth7t7 said: Please provide scripture to support your claim? The discussion which takes place after Daniel's prophecy of Daniel 11:1-12:3 is about that prophecy.This verse is about that persecution mentioned in Daniel 11:33-35 which starts after the daily sacrifice is abolished to the time of the end. Daniel 12:7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, “It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed.” This same time period is given in other parts of scripture concerning this same persecution. Daniel 8:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. Revelation 13 5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. Edited July 18, 2023 by Shilohsfoal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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