That Thing that God hates ...

[com7fy8]

On 7/6/2023 at 7:16 AM, AdHoc said:

Even in the age of grace our Lord threatens the sword - and this, for Christians.

Serious matter.

But we have Hebrews 12:4-14 that guarantees how our Father corrects His own children.

[AdHoc]

6 hours ago, com7fy8 said:

But we have Hebrews 12:4-14 that guarantees how our Father corrects His own children.

Correct. And then we have Ananias and Saphira, the incestuous brother of 1st Corinthians 5, the dead saints who took the Lord's table in vain and Alexander the coppersmith (1st Tim.1:20, 2nd Tim.4:14).

[com7fy8]

3 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Correct. And then we have Ananias and Saphira, the incestuous brother of 1st Corinthians 5, the dead saints who took the Lord's table in vain and Alexander the coppersmith (1st Tim.1:20, 2nd Tim.4:14).

And Paul told the Ephesian elders how ones of them would lead people away > Acts 20:30.

"if they had been of us, they would have continued with us" > in 1 John 2:19.

"if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons." (in Hebrews 12:8)

So, you call the abusers of the Lord's Supper "saints". Unless they became corrected later, I consider what Hebrews 12:8 says.

And I consider how ones of them were eating and drinking right next to poor Christians who had nothing. And Paul says that was why ones were sick and weak and asleep. So, I see how the main abuse was not about focusing on the ones leading the service and what to do with the bread and drink. But Paul was concerned about how they were relating with each other . . . if they were loving or not.

So, I see how Jesus could be focusing on the least of His brothers and sisters and how ones are relating with them.

[Sower]

On 7/5/2023 at 9:28 AM, AdHoc said:

The word Nicolaitan is a compound word coming from “Nico” and “Laodicea”. Simply translated from the Greek it mean “Victorious over the common man”. Inside the Church it means a company of people who exercise strength and/or rulership over the Laity. But here is the catch. If the very first Church is accused by God of having this system, and a later Church is accused of having its doctrine, it stands to reason that all the Churches were infected with this system.

Very interesting for sure.

Is it possible to boil this down to what is understood/determined based on the many scriptures given. I cannot determine exactly how the church body was set up by God here, but it seems the way churches are run to day, based on what is said here, is not how God intended. Is this the case?  If so, what does scripture say just how the Lord scripturally speaking, intended his assemblies to function. Specifically, or generally.

Thanks AdHoc..

 

[AdHoc]

20 hours ago, com7fy8 said:

And Paul told the Ephesian elders how ones of them would lead people away > Acts 20:30.

"if they had been of us, they would have continued with us" > in 1 John 2:19.

"if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons." (in Hebrews 12:8)

So, you call the abusers of the Lord's Supper "saints". Unless they became corrected later, I consider what Hebrews 12:8 says.

And I consider how ones of them were eating and drinking right next to poor Christians who had nothing. And Paul says that was why ones were sick and weak and asleep. So, I see how the main abuse was not about focusing on the ones leading the service and what to do with the bread and drink. But Paul was concerned about how they were relating with each other . . . if they were loving or not.

So, I see how Jesus could be focusing on the least of His brothers and sisters and how ones are relating with them.

Hebrews 12:8 says that a Christian who refuses to be exercised or is not chastised is a "bastard". This does not mean that God is not His Father. Every man has a father. "Bastard" means he is cut out of legal inheritance - that is, "disowned". A Christian is "born" for the Kingdom (Jn.3:3-5). He cannot be "unbirthed", but he can be banned from the kingdom when Christ comes (Matt.7:21-23, 1st Cor.6:9-10, Gal.5:21, Eph.5:5).

But I think we agree that being dealt with by the Lord can be "grievous" (Heb.12:11).

[AdHoc]

On 7/5/2023 at 4:28 PM, AdHoc said:

Why the focus on just a few people functioning (up front) in our gatherings?

@Sower

Thank you for your query. Above is a thread in "General" started by @Vine Abider. It has much dispute in it but those who stand by the Biblical Assembly posted a lot of good information. 

But I also don't want to duck your question, so I'll give a brief summary.

God's working relationship with men is one of each party being responsible. That is, each has a duty in a process whereby God is glorified and men are blessed. In Israel and the Church, each man had something to do. This was regulated by the Law and the prophets in the Old Testament, and by the Apostles in the New. In regard to His House, the Church, God said that we are all building (see 1st Corinthians Chapter 3) and that each man's work will be tested of what material it is.

Jumping to Ephesians Chapter 4 we see Christ's part is to supply each member and each member's part is to supply the member next to him/her. That means that every member, in a small or large way, is responsible for the growth of those next to him/her. Satan's tactic is to silence, or render ineffective, the transfer of spiritual food from one saint to the next.

Jumping to 1st Corinthians 12 we see how the Lord distributes spiritual (or inspired) gifts to many members. And you will note that every gift is a speaking gift. Even miracles cause speaking and faith. So Satan's tactic is to silence the gifted ones. And our Leadership has promoted this and the congregations have agreed to this. The members are not taking their responsibilities.

1st Corinthians 14 shows how the Meetings should be. That is;
1. all the gifted ones free to contribute
2. tongues brings no understanding so it is limited
3. "ALL" may speak (prophesy - v.3)
4. The Assembly must maintain good order
5. In the case of breakdown of order the Elders must intervene
6. An atmosphere of "building" must reign. That is, no speaker should have any other agenda than to bring his /her contribution to all for their edification. The listeners will judge.
7. Although all must contribute, an atmosphere of submission must reign. If you perceive that you are not inspired, or that another saint is about to speak, you should back off.
8. Chapter 13 is the foundation - Love. If you love yourself, love the brethren and love the Lord you will have no trouble in building. If you are self-promoting or seek a reputation, you will break down the building.

This is very rough, but it contains my view of the Meetings. What we see today in the meetings is nothing like this (there are exceptions but they are few).

[Markie51]

If you consider abhorring or detestable is likened to "hate" someone or something, then consider just a sampling of scriptures that reference what God hates, abhors or finds detestable.-Leviticus 18:6-30;  20:1-23; Deuteronomy 12:31; 18:12; 22:5; 23:18; 24:4; 25:16; 2 Kings 17:18; 21:6; 2 Chronicles 28:3; Proverbs 6:16; 15:9; 28:9; Malachi 2:16.