Who taught mankind to dig gold ?

[The_Patriot21]

16 minutes ago, R. Hartono said:

Was it any known financial value of gold near that ancient Eden gold mine ? Value is determined by printed money.

No it's not. Gold was held as valuable long before printed money was ever a "thing"

Value is determined by what people view as valuable, and is to a degree a moving target. What's valuable to me, may not be to you. I have a nice collection of WW2 rifles. I won't sell them, they're valuable to me.

But I have a cousin who hates guns of all sorts and who would likely burn them as well them or keep them because they are not valuable to her.

However, certain items, especially items that arent common or easily obtainable, are held as more valuable as others, especially when it comes to rare metals such as gold.

Another example, if I were to go pick up a 3/4" rock off the road and try to sell it...no one would buy it. Because a single 3/4" rock is worthless. But, if I had say, 3 tons of 3/4" rock, I could probably make a little bit of money off it, someone could use it for a driveway, to drive on.

However if I were to sell that 3 ton of rock, I still wouldn't be able to afford a single 3/4" diamond. Why? The diamond is viewed as being more valuable. It's harder to find, it's pretty, and it has far more practical applications then driving on.

So what defines what something is worth? 

1: it's usefulness

2: whether it's pretty or not

3: how easy it is to obtain.

If it's shiny, useful, and difficult to obtain it's valuable.

Reality is, paper money, at least in the US is only valuable, in theory because it's backed by gold. Otherwise it's just paper. And unfortunately, the American dollar bill isn't even really money but a IOU. 

 

 

[BeyondET]

 

55 minutes ago, ayin jade said:

Value is determined by the worth people place on it, not by printed money. Ancient civilizations placed values on various things from salt and spices to certain stones, to silver and gold. 

Even produce and livestock.

[R. Hartono]

3 hours ago, BeyondET said:

 

Even produce and livestock.

Was there any idea of mining gold for barter in Eden ? That they dig the gold ? And without tools ?

@The_Patriot21 @ayin jade

Edited July 22, 2023 by R. Hartono

[The_Patriot21]

9 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Was there any idea of mining gold for barter in Eden ? That they dig the gold ? And without tools ?

@The_Patriot21 @ayin jade

In Eden, there was no need for gold-or currency. And when we get to heaven we will no longer need it. The need for currency didn't come into place until the fall. 

In Eden Adam and eve needed nothing. They had eternal life and a endless supply of food.

After the fall, death came into the world, our diets changed and the law of entropy was created. I suspect, in the early days again, no currency was needed. Being a small family they probably shared.

But as the population grew, things naturally would start to change. Resources would start being used up faster as the population increased, it would take more work to keep everyone fed and sheltered. And everyone couldn't do everything.

Well, share and share alike, i.e. socialism only works in two places, hell where no one wants it, and heaven where it's not needed.

In order for an economy to grow people need an incentive to do something, a goal to strive for. It probably started out as bartering....fruit for meat, wool clothes for a wagon, stuff like that. 

But over time a more equal system would need to be out in place. If you had a goat but needed a tent, but absolutely no one around you needed a goat, good luck trading for a tent.

But, a currency fixes that problem. If there's something everyone wants and can use to spend on anything, then that makes it valuable. So if you have a goat and need a tent, and no one needs a goat you can instead give them gold for it which they can use for anything else they want/need.

And I suspect in the early days they didn't need a lot of mining... after all even in the US during the early gold rushes, oftentimes gold could be found easily by panning the streams or even in some places just picking it up.

And as society advanced, things like tools to mine with will go with it. Mankind is creative, if they have a need for something they will figure it out. God created us that way.

Gold is just rare and shiny enough to be valuable to a lot of people, while still remaining plentiful enough to allow use as a currency. And, especially in the olden days much easier to mine then other precious metals or fine jewels.

But, that doesn't mean it was the only one. I mean, fine jewels have always been found as valuable to most cultures, both modern and ancient.

Even the American Indians, who relied on bartering, and didn't really have a currency found some things more valuable then others. Turquoise is one that was popular among at least some of the tribes. Horses actually became a sort of currency for them after the Spaniards brought them over. 

Every culture assigned values to different objects or animals, be it a currency type culture or a bartering culture you need an assigned value to effectively work. It wasn't always gold...gold's just been the most popular.

[R. Hartono]

2 hours ago, The_Patriot21 said:

In Eden, there was no need for gold-or currency. And when we get to heaven we will no longer need it. The need for currency didn't come into place until the fall. 

In Eden Adam and eve needed nothing. They had eternal life and a endless supply of food.

After the fall, death came into the world, our diets changed and the law of entropy was created. I suspect, in the early days again, no currency was needed. Being a small family they probably shared.

But as the population grew, things naturally would start to change. Resources would start being used up faster as the population increased, it would take more work to keep everyone fed and sheltered. And everyone couldn't do everything.

Well, share and share alike, i.e. socialism only works in two places, hell where no one wants it, and heaven where it's not needed.

In order for an economy to grow people need an incentive to do something, a goal to strive for. It probably started out as bartering....fruit for meat, wool clothes for a wagon, stuff like that. 

But over time a more equal system would need to be out in place. If you had a goat but needed a tent, but absolutely no one around you needed a goat, good luck trading for a tent.

But, a currency fixes that problem. If there's something everyone wants and can use to spend on anything, then that makes it valuable. So if you have a goat and need a tent, and no one needs a goat you can instead give them gold for it which they can use for anything else they want/need.

And I suspect in the early days they didn't need a lot of mining... after all even in the US during the early gold rushes, oftentimes gold could be found easily by panning the streams or even in some places just picking it up.

And as society advanced, things like tools to mine with will go with it. Mankind is creative, if they have a need for something they will figure it out. God created us that way.

Gold is just rare and shiny enough to be valuable to a lot of people, while still remaining plentiful enough to allow use as a currency. And, especially in the olden days much easier to mine then other precious metals or fine jewels.

But, that doesn't mean it was the only one. I mean, fine jewels have always been found as valuable to most cultures, both modern and ancient.

Even the American Indians, who relied on bartering, and didn't really have a currency found some things more valuable then others. Turquoise is one. Horses actually became a sort of currency for them after the Spaniards brought them over. 

Every culture assigned values to different objects or animals, be it a currency type culture or a bartering culture you need an assigned value to effectively work. It wasn't always gold...gold's just been the most popular.

Thats interesting about American Indian civilization, did they ever make metal tools ? 

[The_Patriot21]

4 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Thats interesting about American Indian civilization, did they ever make metal tools ? 

Not to my knowledge. 

[teddyv]

9 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Thats interesting about American Indian civilization, did they ever make metal tools ? 

There were some tribes in BC that used copper in art, but I am not aware of any metalwork for tools.

[BeyondET]

15 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Was there any idea of mining gold for barter in Eden ? That they dig the gold ? And without tools ?

@The_Patriot21 @ayin jade

The gold was mentioned in other lands rather than in Eden. I think tools were around kind of hard to till and cultivate with bare hands.

[Solus Christus]

On 7/16/2023 at 9:09 PM, NConly said:

Gen 4: 22

And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain was Naamah.

no sure but someone taught Tubalcain

I thought he was creator of weapons? 

[farouk]

21 minutes ago, Solus Christus said:

I thought he was creator of weapons? 

The roots of so many things are in Genesis..........