Big Boy Stan Murf Posted August 19, 2023 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,027 Content Per Day: 4.37 Reputation: 279 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2023 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 19, 2023 16 hours ago, Michael37 said: How's your next assignment coming along? As soon as the Lord gives me one, I'll get on it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted August 19, 2023 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 245 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 7,036 Content Per Day: 3.28 Reputation: 4,947 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Online Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted August 19, 2023 2 hours ago, Stan Murff said: As soon as the Lord gives me one, I'll get on it! Given by Word of Knowledge to me from the Lord for Stan Murff, for the edification, exhortation, and comfort of the body of Christ: On 8/18/2023 at 5:38 PM, Michael37 said: Your next assignment is to show why repentance from dead works is fundamental to the building and maintaining of a right relationship with God and with all people. Heb 6:1 Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, . . . This quote includes one of six fundamental, that is, foundational teachings of Christ. If a professing Christian does not repent of dead works, or works that lead to death, namely sin, they are not on the sure foundation of Christ and are lacking maturity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tristen Posted August 20, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,388 Content Per Day: 0.63 Reputation: 1,361 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/26/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 20, 2023 3 hours ago, Stan Murff said: And yet the Word of God speaks of people that depart from the faith meaning they were actually saved, but then they fell away and are no longer saved. One cannot depart from the faith if there were never saved and in the faith in the first place. It is entirely possible according to God's Word to be saved and then... not be saved. Ultimately, once saved always save is a stumbling block for believers. I'm sure there are existing threads here debating the "once saved, always saved" doctrine. Or you could start a new one - if that is something you are interested in discussing. My contribution to the topic of this thread is to be cautious about judging someone's Christianity on the basis of sin. A person who is sinning may very well be a non-Christian, but they may also be a sincere, yet immature Christian, who either doesn't fully understand the seriousness of sin, or who is sincerely struggling to overcome their sin. Only God has the perspective to make that judgement - because only God sees our hearts. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
com7fy8 Posted August 20, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 873 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 520 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 20, 2023 On 8/18/2023 at 12:18 PM, Stan Murff said: And yet the once saved always saved crowd still argues that Christians still go to Heaven if they do sin including when they know what they are doing is sinful and still do it anyway. Not all once saved always saved people say this. The Biblical once saved always saved people say that if God truly converts you to Jesus, that He then will have you living by faith that does His works of righteousness. These works are a result, then, of salvation, not a condition. And we are guaranteed our Father's correction that succeeds in changing us from sin problems and changing us into the image of Jesus. Hebrews 12:4-14 tells about what real correction by God is guaranteed to accomplish. This is included with true conversion so we are ready to spend eternity with Jesus. But there is a false once saved always saved way > saying a copy-cat prayer which ones say gives you a quick-fix ticket to Heaven. And I mean without trusting in Jesus by submitting to Him. If a person does submit to Jesus and learn from Him > "you will find rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:29) This is included in our guarantee of what will happen if we trust Jesus for salvation and therefore obey Him. "But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17) A person who trusts in Christ becomes joined to Jesus. This bond is almighty so you can not get away from God, plus in this bond His almighty power wins in us to change our character so we do not desire or choose to leave Him, but we are becoming more and more maturely like Jesus because of being one in spirit with Him. Jesus says, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me." This is in Luke 9:23. I will offer that denying myself includes getting rid of my self's human "free" will and its false freedom. And God makes us new in Jesus > 2 Corinthians 5:17 > our old will human is passed away, and we are new with God working our wills > Philippians 2:13. So, I think you would be wise to represent the Biblical version of once saved always saved, and not just criticize what is not Biblical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
com7fy8 Posted August 20, 2023 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 41 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 873 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 520 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 20, 2023 5 hours ago, Stan Murff said: And yet the Word of God speaks of people that depart from the faith meaning they were actually saved, but then they fell away and are no longer saved. One cannot depart from the faith if there were never saved and in the faith in the first place. People departed from Jesus, though they never believed in Him. And we have how Judas hung around Jesus, then departed from Him. Faith changes a person into an obedient person. I mean "faith working through love." (in Galatians 5:6) True faith works. The works are of God's love. The works, then, are not a condition but a guaranteed result of Bibical faith. So, if God saves a person, the person is safe. If someone could trust in Jesus and then could fall to Satan, that does not sound like someone who is safe! I offer, though, that I get what you are saying about ones who have left the faith, but here is possibly what God's word says about such people leaving > "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us." (1 John 2:19) God keeps those who are His. And Jesus says He has lost none of His sheep but His sheep will not follow another > John 10:1-30. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Boy Stan Murf Posted August 20, 2023 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,027 Content Per Day: 4.37 Reputation: 279 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2023 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 20, 2023 17 hours ago, Michael37 said: Heb 6:1 Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, . . . This quote includes one of six fundamental, that is, foundational teachings of Christ. If a professing Christian does not repent of dead works, or works that lead to death, namely sin, they are not on the sure foundation of Christ and are lacking maturity. That's all true! Now, try to explain to those that embrace once saved always saved who think turning away from our sin is optional... you know, a personal decision whether we wanna do that or not. They say if one turns away from their sin then they are trying to earn their salvation which makes them works based... so in their view if one is truly saved by grace they cannot just turn away from their sin. This kind of teaching is a stumbling block to believers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Boy Stan Murf Posted August 20, 2023 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,027 Content Per Day: 4.37 Reputation: 279 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2023 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 20, 2023 16 hours ago, Tristen said: My contribution to the topic of this thread is to be cautious about judging someone's Christianity on the basis of sin. God's Word teaches sin separates us from Him. It's not my judgement, but the Lord's. Just because someone is repeating things taught in God's Word does not mean they are "judging" others. It's meant to help other see what God has already said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Boy Stan Murf Posted August 20, 2023 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,027 Content Per Day: 4.37 Reputation: 279 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2023 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 20, 2023 14 hours ago, com7fy8 said: The Biblical once saved always saved people say that if God truly converts you to Jesus, that He then will have you living by faith that does His works of righteousness. These works are a result, then, of salvation, not a condition. OK, so if one gets saved and keeps living in sin... it's God's fault. If one is not walking in those good works, it's somehow a failure on God's part... I've heard this before and it's not biblical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Boy Stan Murf Posted August 20, 2023 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,027 Content Per Day: 4.37 Reputation: 279 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2023 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 20, 2023 (edited) 14 hours ago, com7fy8 said: So, if God saves a person, the person is safe. Even if they go back and live in sin! I know, I've heard it all before. Ezekiel 18:20 (see Romans 8:13) The soul that sins, it shall die. 1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils *This is speaking of those that were once in the faith having become born again believers and later turned away from the Lord. Ezekiel 18:26,27 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, and dies in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. Again, when the wicked man turns away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. John 15:5,6 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. James 5:19,20 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converts the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. *By addressing this to “brethren” we know this is speaking to believers who turned from the truth and if they are converted back to the truth, the soul of the person that had fallen away is being saved from spiritual death which is separation from God. Colossians 1:21-23 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: IF ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven. *A condition is given here to be righteous before the Lord which is IF we continue in the faith and do not fall away. Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. *This indicates that these folks were born again and they had "fallen from grace" because they turn away from trusting in Jesus for their salvation. Jude 1:5,6 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. *If once saved always saved was true, then the Lord would not be speaking thru Jude to put us in remembrance about what happened to those that quit believing. *If angels having been created perfect turn away from the Lord and be separated from Him forever, we would experience the same. Thankfully, the Lord has provided a way for man to confess and forsake sin in order to receive mercy (see Proverbs 28:13), but if we continue in our sin we will not have mercy due having turned away from the Lord Edited August 20, 2023 by Stan Murff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyB Posted August 20, 2023 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,628 Content Per Day: 1.14 Reputation: 304 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/23/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted August 20, 2023 On 8/18/2023 at 5:03 PM, Stan Murff said: Since Jesus did not sin... shouldn't Christians NOT willingly and knowingly do sin? And why do so many go out of their way to make it sound as though we're all sinners??? If one is not willingly and knowingly doing sin, then they are not a sinner. Of course they make errors and mistakes so they are not perfect in the literal sense like Jesus But, this does not mean it's OK to willingly and knowingly do sin as everyone claims that believes in eternal security. These folks make it sound as though if one ceases from willingly and knowingly doing sin that means they are trying to earn their salvation and they will be lost! It's all one big contradiction that comes from seminaries and bible schools and not from God's Word. I agree with you -- except for the last sentence. What do you have against seminaries and bible schools? After all, they do teach God's word. You whole post is weakened by that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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