Big Boy Stan Murf Posted August 29, 2023 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,027 Content Per Day: 4.39 Reputation: 279 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted August 29, 2023 (edited) You should read what I wrote... if they continue in sin and refuse to repent and they died in that condition having rejected the leading of the Holy Spirit to repent. When we sin, we become separated from the Lord and must turn away from our sin and confess it to the Lord as sin before we can be right with Him once again. To say otherwise is to say Christians can continue in sinful lifestyles and still be in right standing with the Lord, that light and darkness do have fellowship. This is basic Christianity. Can you grasp this? Or do you do the once saved always saved thing which is not even biblical? Edited August 29, 2023 by Stan Murff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesusandliberty Posted August 30, 2023 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 157 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2023 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 30, 2023 17 hours ago, Stan Murff said: Simply because they are doing things the Lord says in His Word are sinful such as talking to the dead (necromancy) and worshiping mary (idolatry) among other things. I don't know a single Catholic who worships Mary you have this wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesusandliberty Posted August 30, 2023 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 157 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2023 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 30, 2023 19 hours ago, other one said: Can we separate the Catholic organization "religion" from its individual members. Can a Catholic member be saved? Anyone who professes with their mouth Jesus is Lord and believes in their heart He was resurrected is saved right? I would assume this applies to everyone including Catholics. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesusandliberty Posted August 30, 2023 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 157 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 53 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/08/2023 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 30, 2023 13 hours ago, Stan Murff said: This is basic Christianity. Can you grasp this? Or do you do the once saved always saved thing which is not even biblical? You are committing a sin by pretending to know a persons heart and deciding who God is saving and who He isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted August 30, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,264 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,993 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 30, 2023 1 hour ago, jesusandliberty said: Anyone who professes with their mouth Jesus is Lord and believes in their heart He was resurrected is saved right? I would assume this applies to everyone including Catholics. Yes I would think, however, if one declares Jesus as Lord must actually make him their Lord and do as he says or they just make themselves a liar instead of being saved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vine Abider Posted August 30, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 6 Topic Count: 207 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 3,501 Content Per Day: 6.14 Reputation: 2,352 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/25/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/2024 Share Posted August 30, 2023 On 8/27/2023 at 5:01 AM, jesusandliberty said: We would want to because we can make serious change towards things like abortion and gender mutilation and help get this country back toward governing biblically. This sounds like more of a political alignment, which I think may already basically be in place. My understanding is many, if not most, Catholics already vote conservative (although many non-white Catholics evidently do not). On 8/27/2023 at 9:42 AM, Stan Murff said: Exactly. The stage has already been set for the coming one world religion thru the ecumenical movement and they are already denigrating anyone who suggests their their "religion" is the only way to God. You know the story they tell is that ALL roads lead to God and they suck people in thru emotionalism and the wisdom of man which is in opposition to the wisdom of the Lord. I've already heard some claiming to be Christians talk about how wonderful it is for all religions to be coming together in harmony. This will end very badly for them. If we're talking this sort of "systematic oneness" with the RCC, which I agree is steeped in all kinds of things I don't think square with the bible, then I agree that it shouldn't be done. The RCC system is rotten. On 8/29/2023 at 7:57 AM, other one said: Can we separate the Catholic organization "religion" from its individual members. Can a Catholic member be saved? Yes. So while the system is rotten, there certainly can be born-again Christians in the RCC. I used to absolutely rail against the RCC system and its members, but the Lord has shown me in various ways that individuals there (or any church) may be His children. I'll relate just two things (there have been several more) that changed my thinking regarding this: 1) I went to a Catholic funeral for an extended family member, where a full-fledged Catholic priest gave the message. I was fully braced against what I thought the fellow might say. Much to my surprise, one of the freshest gospel messages came out that focused on faith in Christ alone and solid scripture, with not even a hint of covert RCC doctrine! I was taken back, and even refreshed, hearing these words of life that come out of him! 2) The Lord's letter to the church in Thyatira - most (protestant) commentators agree that this church bears at least a strong resemblance to the RCC. There are all kinds of things the Lord points out there that are highly grievous to the Him. (although, in fairness, He calls their works significant, which the RCC has) But, they were still one of the seven lampstands, which means they were Christians with the Lord's life in them. (although with the things they were practicing, the percentage of born-again believers there likely would have declined rapidly). The lesson/takeaway for me is we cannot apply a the same broad-brush to the individuals in the RCC as we do the system and its hierarchy. I'm convinced that some number there are truly born-again (although it kind of astounds me that they remain in the RCC . . .). 23 hours ago, Stan Murff said: Those following catholic doctrines are not saved. Simply because they are doing things the Lord says in His Word are sinful such as talking to the dead (necromancy) and worshiping mary (idolatry) among other things. Again, I was one who railed against the RCC and its members. Now, I still speak out against the system and the practices, as you've mentioned (particularly the Mary thing - drives me bunkers!). And the early RCC was responsible for bringing in all kinds of erroneous ideas and practices, which we in the non-RCC church are still struggling with today. And, of course, this is where you and I differ in our salvation stance - I believe a person can be born-again with Christ's eternal life in them, and they may go off into erroneous things, yet they don't stop being their Father's child. There is accountability for all and He says, "Vengeance is mine - I will repay." (Deut 32:35) But it is the Lord's responsibility to correct and discipline others who are caught in error, not my responsibility . . . other than speak the truth in love to them. And He will do it as He sees fit, in His timing, and it will all turn out glorious, according to His loving plan for us - even regarding the great mystery, the RCC. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Boy Stan Murf Posted August 30, 2023 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,027 Content Per Day: 4.39 Reputation: 279 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted August 30, 2023 7 hours ago, jesusandliberty said: You are committing a sin by pretending to know a persons heart and deciding who God is saving and who He isn't. No, not when they say things contrary to what God's Word says. I never said you don't mean well or have some evil intent. You just say some things that are not in agreement with what the Lord has said in His Word. Making that observation is not a sin since Jesus and His Apostles do this in scripture. It's all part of talk about God's Word so no need to get all offended. But it's your right to get offended if you must... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Boy Stan Murf Posted August 30, 2023 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,027 Content Per Day: 4.39 Reputation: 279 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted August 30, 2023 5 hours ago, other one said: Yes I would think, however, if one declares Jesus as Lord must actually make him their Lord and do as he says or they just make themselves a liar instead of being saved. Exactly! One cannot be in opposition to the Lord and still be saved. I get tickled about people online railing about "Lordship Salvation" claiming one does not have to make Jesus their Lord to be saved which is indirectly claiming one does not have to be led by the Holy Spirit to be a child of God (Romans 8:14) It's amazing how some are intend on arguing FOR being able to live in sin and claim one can walk in disobedience to the Lord and still be saved! Jesus said those that sin are not servants of the Lord but are instead servants and slaves of sin! John 8:34 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. When Jesus says "Verily, verily" (truly, truly)... He means business! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Boy Stan Murf Posted August 30, 2023 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,027 Content Per Day: 4.39 Reputation: 279 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2023 Status: Offline Share Posted August 30, 2023 25 minutes ago, Vine Abider said: I believe a person can be born-again with Christ's eternal life in them, and they may go off into erroneous things, yet they don't stop being their Father's child. This is one of the major reasons why so many Christians are departing from the faith to be just like the world is because they are being told it's not possible to lose your salvation. So, they become lukewarm and live in sin just like the world around them not being set apart unto, the Lord (holy) If once saved always saved is really true, then Christians can in fact live in sin all they want and those believing in OSAS have no standing to tell them it's not right. One cannot have it both ways saying "you can't ever lose your salvation" and then turn around and say "you should not be living in sin" as they have no credibility to make that claim anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vine Abider Posted August 30, 2023 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 6 Topic Count: 207 Topics Per Day: 0.36 Content Count: 3,501 Content Per Day: 6.14 Reputation: 2,352 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/25/2022 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/01/2024 Share Posted August 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Stan Murff said: This is one of the major reasons why so many Christians are departing from the faith to be just like the world is because they are being told it's not possible to lose your salvation. So, they become lukewarm and live in sin just like the world around them not being set apart unto, the Lord (holy) If once saved always saved is really true, then Christians can in fact live in sin all they want and those believing in OSAS have no standing to tell them it's not right. One cannot have it both ways saying "you can't ever lose your salvation" and then turn around and say "you should not be living in sin" as they have no credibility to make that claim anymore. Thanks for sharing your opinion. However, a big part of it is a strawman argument* as has been pointed out a number of times on various threads recently. No one (at least not me) is saying that there is no accountability and discipline for born-again children of God who keep on sinning. There are serious consequences and accountability for any believer who stay in sin, including divine chastening and discipline, and to ignore that this point has been made numerous times, is to keep perpetuating a fallacy. To repeat (and hopefully make the point) - stating that all those who hold the OSAS teaching are thinking there is no accountability, consequence or discipline for Father's children, is an erroneous strawman argument.* * Strawman argument: "[This] fallacy occurs when someone takes another person’s argument or point, distorts it or exaggerates it in some kind of extreme way, and then attacks the extreme distortion, as if that is really the claim the first person is making." From https://owl.excelsior.edu/argument-and-critical-thinking/logical-fallacies/logical-fallacies-straw-man/ If anyone wants to join a discussion about this serious and potentially severe judgement believers will face, you can visit this thread: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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