Is praying to other saints considered a form of idolatry?

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

A fun way to freak out a cathoic is to look at them all serious and say .... "I am a saint!"

They might fall down and start preying to you, who knows!

[believeinHim]

I have an Episcopal church next door to me. I stopped going due to conflicts in doctrine with their acceptance of marrying LB & G, as well as them bringing in refugees, illegals in other words, in to their church and 'sheltering', them.

They do have a Saint's name as their church name. Growing up attending a Calvary, or I think anyway, this has always been like what to me, but I prefer my own area, and my own part of town to any other part of home. You know what they say, there is no place like home.

I am so close to such expensive parts of towns around here, that I am really attached to it. The churches that happen to be around here, are small, and very Orthodoxically traditional neighborhoods.

I can't help it that the most expensive parts of my state are surrounded by very old fashioned, and sometimes beautiful churches. It just is what it is. Loll. The best and most expensive parts of town around here, Happen to be located where the more traditional churches are.

The church of Calvary, if I am being honest, is in a really, shady part of town. The Calvary church around here, is in a very very very shady part of town. So, I prefer to go around here, even if they are Fundamentalist.

I don't know if the type of church, around the part of town is a reflection of the church, that is not what I am saying. But, around here, the best parts of town are surrounded by the most old fashioned churches. If it has been this way since the founding of this state, then that is just the way this state is.

I didn't build it this way, I was born in to it. Loll. So, I will stay around here to go to church. I don't drive anymore, anyway. Loll.

There is no place like home, most especially when your own neighborhood is situated just perfectly in to very nice parts of town, near very traditional and old fashioned churches.

Edited September 10, 2023 by believeinHim

[Retrobyter]

On 8/27/2023 at 4:27 PM, Anne2 said:

Matter of conscience? 

Are there Saints in heaven? 

Nope. The ONLY ONE there who is in a glorified body is Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus"). The saints, even Billy Graham, are waiting in the ground for the Resurrection.

[Anne2]

40 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Nope. The ONLY ONE there who is in a glorified body is Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus"). The saints, even Billy Graham, are waiting in the ground for the Resurrection.

Do Catholics teach they are resurrected? I know they teach they are alive. But I have not heard they teach they are resurrected

Mt 22:32  I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Mr 12:27  He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
Lu 20:38  For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.
Joh 6:69  And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

These are not resurrected.

Mt 17:1  And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2  And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3  And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
4  Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
 

Mark 9:2  And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
3  And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.
4  And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
 

If Catholics do not teach they are resurrected, then neither should others imply or insist they do.

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Nope. The ONLY ONE there who is in a glorified body is Yeeshuwa` ("Jesus"). The saints, even Billy Graham, are waiting in the ground for the Resurrection.

Soul sleep is not biblical.  When Christians die, their body is in the ground but they are not as they go to be in the presence of the Lord.

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead

2 Corinthians 5:8
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

On the flip side, those that died in their sin are down in hell.

Sure there is a judgement later on where saint and sinner will be brought before the Lord for judgement and to be rewarded according to their deeds (Romans 2:6)

But, in between now and then we will be alive, awake, and consciously aware in either Heaven or hell.

At some point Christians see their physical bodies resurrected and glorified just like the Lord's Body is now.


 

Edited August 31, 2023 by Stan Murff

[Retrobyter]

3 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

Do Catholics teach they are resurrected? I know they teach they are alive. But I have not heard they teach they are resurrected

Shalom, Anne2.

No, they believe they "go to Heaven and live forevermore beatifically!" This is the SAME RIDICULOUS NOTION that is taught in the Greek philosopher Plato's teachings! And, by and large, those who call themselves "Christians" have been influenced by this philosophy ever since!

3 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

Mt 22:32  I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Mr 12:27  He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.
Lu 20:38  For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.
Joh 6:69  And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

These are not resurrected.

...YET! One should really read ALL the text about this encounter!

Matthew 22:23-33 (KJV)

23 The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that THERE IS NO RESURRECTION, and asked him, 24 Saying,

"Master, Moses said, 'If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.' 25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother: 26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh. 27 And last of all the woman died also. 28 Therefore IN THE RESURRECTION whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her."

29 Jesus answered and said unto them,

"Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. 31 But AS TOUCHING THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob' ? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living!"

33 And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.

Mark 12:18-27 (KJV)

18 Then come unto him the Sadducees, which say THERE IS NO RESURRECTION; and they asked him, saying, 

19 "Master, Moses wrote unto us, 'If a man's brother die, and leave his wife behind him, and leave no children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.' 20 Now there were seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and dying left no seed. 21 And the second took her, and died, neither left he any seed: and the third likewise. 22 And the seven had her, and left no seed: last of all the woman died also. 23 IN THE RESURRECTION therefore, WHEN THEY SHALL RISE, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife." 

24 And Jesus answering said unto them,

"Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God? 25 For WHEN THEY SHALL RISE FROM THE DEAD, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. 26 And AS TOUCHING THE DEAD, THAT THEY RISE: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob' ? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err!"

Luke 20:27-40 (KJV)

27 Then came to him certain of the Sadducees, WHICH DENY THAT THERE IS ANY RESURRECTION; and they asked him, 28 Saying,

"Master, Moses wrote unto us, 'If any man's brother die, having a wife, and he die without children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.' 29 There were therefore seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and died without children. 30 And the second took her to wife, and he died childless. 31 And the third took her; and in like manner the seven also: and they left no children, and died. 32 Last of all the woman died also. 33 Therefore IN THE RESURRECTION whose wife of them is she? for seven had her to wife."

34 And Jesus answering said unto them,

"The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: 35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and THE RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36 NEITHER CAN THEY DIE ANY MORE: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being THE CHILDREN OF THE RESURRECTION. 37 Now that THE DEAD ARE RAISED, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord 'the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.' 38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him." 

39 Then certain of the scribes answering said,

"Master, thou hast well said."

40 And after that they durst not ask him any question at all.

In NONE of these accounts is Yeeshuwa` saying that Avraham, Yitschaq, and Ya`aqoV are already living! He was saying that they are ALREADY CHOSEN to be RESURRECTED!

 

3 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

Mt 17:1  And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2  And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3  And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
4  Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
 

Mark 9:2  And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
3  And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.
4  And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
 

If Catholics do not teach they are resurrected, then neither should others imply or insist they do.

Well, the problem that is found in the context of these passages (Matthew 17:1-4 and Mark 9:2-4) is that this is a VISION, not a real visitation! They did not actually see Eliyahuw ("Elijah" or "Elias") and Mowsheh ("Moses"). They saw IMAGES of them from the FUTURE! Consider:

Matthew 16:28-17:13 (KJV)

28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they SEE the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there APPEARED unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. 4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus,

"Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias."

5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said,

"THIS is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye HIM!"

6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. 7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said,

"Arise, and be not afraid."

8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.

9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying,

"Tell the VISION to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead."

10 And his disciples asked him, saying,

"Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?"

11 And Jesus answered and said unto them,

"Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. 12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them."

13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

And,

Mark 9:1-13 (KJV)

1 And he said unto them,

"Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they HAVE SEEN the kingdom of God come with power."

2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them. 3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them. 4 And there APPEARED unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus. 5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus,

"Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias."

6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid. 7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying,

"THIS is my beloved Son: hear HIM!"

8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.

9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they HAD SEEN, till the Son of man were risen from the dead. 10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the "rising from the dead" should mean. 11 And they asked him, saying,

"Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?"

12 And he answered and told them,

"Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought. 13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him."

So, this was a VISION about the FUTURE, not an actual visitation of "Elias and Moses."

If Catholics do not teach they are resurrected, then they are NOT teaching what the Scriptures SAY!

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

In NONE of these accounts is Yeeshuwa` saying that Avraham, Yitschaq, and Ya`aqoV are already living!

Who are these folks?

Anyway we can do some english?

[Retrobyter]

5 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

Soul sleep is not biblical.  When Christians die, their body is in the ground but they are not as they go to be in the presence of the Lord.

Shalom, Stan Murff.

Nice job of labeling. "Soul sleep" is not quite accurate. Some other terms are "Christian mortalism" often just "mortalism," "psychopannychism," and "thnetopsychism."

Wikipedia give us this:

Christian mortalism is the Christian belief that the human soul is not naturally immortal and may include the belief that the soul is "sleeping" after death until the Resurrection of the Dead and the Last Judgment, a time known as the intermediate state. "Soul sleep" is often used as a pejorative term (a term of contempt), so the more neutral term "mortalism" was also used in the nineteenth century, and "Christian mortalism" since the 1970s. Historically the term psychopannychism was also used, despite problems with the etymology and application. The term thnetopsychism has also been used; for example, Gordon Campbell (2008) identified John Milton as believing in the latter.

"Christian mortalism" means that the person is mortal until the resurrection.

"Psychopannychism" comes from the Greek words "psucho" + "pan" + "nux" + "echee" + "-ism," meaning "air-breathing-creature" + "all" + "night" + "have/hold" + "practice." It meant "the practice of holding vigil all night for the air-breathing creature."
"Thnetopsychism" comes from the Greek words "thanatos" + "psuchee" + "-ism," meaning the "practice of death of the air-breathing creature." 

It's really quite simple: the "soul" in the Hebrew language is the word "nefesh" (also written "nephesh"), which in turn, comes from the verb "naafash" (also written "naphash"):

5315 nefesh (nephesh) נֶפֶשׁ (neh'-fesh). From naafash (naphash); properly, a breathing creature, i.e. Animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental):
-- any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead(-ly), desire, X (dis-)contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-)self, them (your)-selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.

5314 naafash (naphash) נָפַשׁ (naw-fash'). A primitive root; to breathe; passively, to be breathed upon, i.e. (figuratively) refreshed (as if by a current of air):
-- (be) refresh selves (-ed).

Thus, a "soul" IS an "(air-)breathing creature." That's kind of hard to find without the body that does the breathing! When a person dies, he or she ceases to breathe air, and therefore, ceases to be an "air-breathing creature," and thus, ceases to be a "soul."

These words are translated into the Greek words "psuchee" and "psuchoo" respectively:

5590 psuchee (psuché) ψυχή, ῆς, ἡ (psoo-khay'). From psuchoo (psucho); breath, i.e. (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from pneuma, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from zooee (zoe), which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus EXACTLY CORRESPOND RESPECTIVELY to the Hebrew nephesh, ruwach and chay):
-- heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.

5594 psuchoo (psucho) ψύχω (psoo'-kho). A primary verb; to breathe (voluntarily but gently, thus differing on the one hand from pneoo (pneo), which denotes properly a forcible respiration; and on the other from the base of aeer (aer), which refers properly to an inanimate breeze), i.e. (by implication, of reduction of temperature by evaporation) to chill (figuratively):
-- wax cold.

(Therefore, I believe that psuchee is not just "breath" but an "air-breathing creature," the same as the Hebrew nefesh. "Breath" comes from the same as the respective Hebrew word "ruwach," meaning "wind," thus coming from "pneuma," which also means "wind.")

So, ...

5 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead

This phrase actually means "For as the body without the breath/wind is dead...."

5 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

/2 Corinthians 5:8
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Well, since one has NO RECOLLECTION of the time that passes between one's death and the Resurrection, it's STILL TRUE!

5 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

On the flip side, those that died in their sin are down in hell.

Sure there is a judgment later on where saint and sinner will be brought before the Lord for judgment and to be rewarded according to their deeds (Romans 2:6)

But, in between now and then we will be alive, awake, and consciously aware in either Heaven or hell.

"Hell" is another misnomer. The word itself comes from Norse mythology ("Hel"), but it was translated from one of three Greek words: "ge-enna" (also "gehenna"), "hadees" (also written "hades" and even capitalized as "Hades"), and "tartaro-oo" (a verb often written as the Latin noun form "tartarus" or capitalized as "Tartarus").

"Ge-enna" or "Gehenna" is a LITERAL PLACE just outside of Jerusalem, Israel. It is a Greek transliteration of the Hebrew phrase, "Gei-Hinnowm" or "Valley of-Hinnowm"). One can go visit there today! What's important about it in prophecy is that it is the trash heap near where the kings of Judaea would set up their thrones for judgment, and persons found guilty of capital crimes would be executed there. This is also where the Messiah will set up HIS judgment throne during the Millennium.

"Hadees" is NOT referring to the Greek mythological place of the dead, "Hades." It is actually a VERBAL meaning "not seen." It was used as we would use the concepts of the "unseen" or the "unknown." This is the word used in Luke 16 when Yeeshuwa` was talking about the rich man and Eleazar ("Lazarus").

The simple solution is that the account of the rich man and Eleazar is IN THE RESURRECTION of the Unjust, in which the rich man has awoken as a resurrected body that can feel the pain of the flames, and has a tongue that needs water, and can see Eleazar afar off in Avraham's Harbor, and can talk with Avraham and Eleazar, who have been resurrected already. He's just confused about how much time has passed, and he thinks someone can be sent back to his brothers. But, this would require someone being sent back in time! However, he is not comforted or informed about the situation of his brothers.

This isn't a scene occurring now in the "center of the earth!" This is upon the SURFACE of the earth, shortly after the Fire falls, just before (or after) the Great White Throne Judgment! He is being tortured in the Lake of Fire!

And, I believe that "tartaro-oo," the verb, may be talking about the Bottomless Pit (Greek: freatos tees abussou = "pit of-the no-bottom"), or the Pit with an UNSOUNDED bottom; that is, it's bottom has never been measured. The word is only found in 2 Peter 2:4.

5 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

At some point Christians see their physical bodies resurrected and glorified just like the Lord's Body is now.

Well, I don't think this is how the Scriptures read. Instead, we see ourselves alive again and glorified, just like the Lord's Body (for "we shall see Him as He is").  People read the "rapture" backwards:

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 (KJV)

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (precede) them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This is not talking about bringing "souls" back from "Heaven." This is talking about RESURRECTING the ones who sleep in Yeeshuwa` and bringing them WITH Yeeshuwa`  when He returns to Israel.

We meet the Master in the air, and we shall stay WITH THE MASTER, wherever He goes! BUT, He will have JUST RETURNED TO EARTH! He's not going to turn around and go back! He's going to move on to Israel! He has His people to rescue from an attempted genocide!

Zechariah 14:1-19 (KJV)

1 "Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city."

3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: 7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea (the Dead Sea), and half of them toward the hinder sea (the Mediterranean Sea): in summer and in winter shall it be.

9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses. 11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. 13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour. 14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance. 15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.

16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship (to bend the knee to) the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, Stan Murff said:

Who are these folks?

Anyway we can do some english?

Shalom, Stan Murff.

Might as well get used to Hebrew. We'll be using it throughout the Millennium, and probably throughout eternity! I gave their Hebrew names (transliterated):

"Avraham," of course, is "Abraham." His name means "most exalted father."

"Yitschaq" is transliterated as "Isaac," and the name means "Laughter."

"Ya`aqoV" is transliterated as "Jacob." This name literally means "heel-grabber" or "trickster" or "cheater." His name was changed to "Yisra'eel" or "Israel," which means "a Prince (Hero/Winner) of God," after he won the wrestling match with the "Angel of God." 

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

11 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Might as well get used to Hebrew. We'll be using it throughout the Millennium

Once we are in our resurrected bodies... we will know as we are known so at that point we will automatically know Hebrews.

But, there's no evidence in scripture that all other languages will be done away with either since there will be many who come thru the great tribulation that aren't even believers.

And I see nothing in scripture that says gentiles are required by the Lord to speak Hebrew or that speaking Hebrew makes anybody more righteous in God's eyes.


 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Stan Murff